My company is going to fine tobacco users 500 bucks

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126
we all got a company wide email today stating that for our next enrollment for health insurance benefits, you have to declare your tobacco status. You will be considered tobacco free if you you have not used in 30 days. if you do use and not in a program to quit you will be fined $500 bucks.

they are offering free cessation programs.


im so glad i dont smoke.

*** edit. humm turns out E-cigs are "illegal" as well.

update #2

just got a reply from HR from a email i sent them.

Corporate responded that their decision is guided by findings from both the America Lung Association and FDA.

Definition of Tobacco Products
The extensive number and breadth of tobacco products being introduced by the tobacco industry each year (e.g., dissolvable tobacco products, tobacco strips and various types of electronic “cigarettes&#8221 creates significant complications in creating a consistent and workable definition of tobacco use. Some definitions of tobacco and tobacco use include a catch all phrase such as “other tobacco products” intended to cover emerging and future products derived from the tobacco plant that may not yet be on the market for consumers. Including this type of open-ended definition has the benefit of automatically including new and not-yet-known tobacco products as they are introduced without needing to go through any updating of plans, regulations, or guidance. In the context of insurance rating, however, attempting to include all existing and emerging tobacco products while leaving room for any another product that may be also used by the consumer is cumbersome and confusing to the insurer and the consumer.

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has stated that it considers a wide variety of products to be tobacco products, including cigarettes, cigars, cigarillos, smokeless tobacco, snus, dissolvable tobacco and e-cigarettes with nicotine derived from tobacco.

According to the FDA, “e-cigs. are considered to be a “tobacco product and NOT a cessation product”. The jury is still out on exactly how harmful e-cigs are. They are available in different levels of nicotine but virtually no one gets the ones without nicotine so the addiction remains intact.

E-cigs mimic smoking almost precisely so there is no change of habit (unlike a “step-down” nicotine patch on the arm, for example). Most tobacco cessation experts will argue that they are nothing more than a nicotine delivery device that imitates a cigarette.
 
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OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
There is zero way to effectively enforce that on an employee with an IQ above room temperature.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
Pretty reasonable. Why should non-smokers have to pay more to cover the smokers higher premiums?
 

jaedaliu

Platinum Member
Feb 25, 2005
2,670
1
81
it's not about fining the employees. It's about incentive-izing people to stop smoking. If they can quit, the healthcare costs for the whole company goes down, and everyone profits. Especially those of us that have to smell the smoke trail.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126
There is zero way to effectively enforce that on an employee with an IQ above room temperature.

we were just talking about that. what are they going to do, give you blood test for niccotine? all you got to say is that you are on a patch or chew nic gum.

just dont use tobacco on company property or where some private investigator can snap a pic of you dragging on a smoke. as crazy as it sounds, i would not be surprised if some investigation was done to keep people honest.

in my book that is extremely intrusive and crosses the line of employee/company boundaries.
 
Apr 17, 2003
37,622
0
76
Pretty reasonable. Why should non-smokers have to pay more to cover the smokers higher premiums?

Because that is the nature of insurance. Good drivers pay for bad drivers, healthy people pay for unhealthy, etc. I'm not saying it's right - and I agree with you that non-smokers should no pay for smokers. I 'm just saying that's how insurance works in general.
 

Juddog

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2006
7,852
6
81
I don't smoke but if I think that's a pretty stupid policy. If you're going to charge people for smoking, what's next - charging employees for being overweight?
 

Juddog

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2006
7,852
6
81
we were just talking about that. what are they going to do, give you blood test for niccotine? all you got to say is that you are on a patch or chew nic gum.

just dont use tobacco on company property or where some private investigator can snap a pic of you dragging on a smoke. as crazy as it sounds, i would not be surprised if some investigation was done to keep people honest.

in my book that is extremely intrusive and crosses the line of employee/company boundaries.

If they test you for nicotine, then yes the patch would count and you'd get the fine.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126
it's not about fining the employees. It's about incentive-izing people to stop smoking. If they can quit, the healthcare costs for the whole company goes down, and everyone profits. Especially those of us that have to smell the smoke trail.

i keep hearing this, but my rates keep going up even with all the other healthy incentives.

oh and yes its a fine period. whats next, 1 dollar fine for every pound you are over weight?
 
Apr 17, 2003
37,622
0
76
we were just talking about that. what are they going to do, give you blood test for niccotine? all you got to say is that you are on a patch or chew nic gum.

just dont use tobacco on company property or where some private investigator can snap a pic of you dragging on a smoke. as crazy as it sounds, i would not be surprised if some investigation was done to keep people honest.

in my book that is extremely intrusive and crosses the line of employee/company boundaries.

There really is no way of enforcing it...sounds like more of a gesture than anything else. The PI would costs 10 times as much as the fine.
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
175
106
I want insurance where I pay next to nothing because I am so healthy but if something catastrophic happens to me, then I want full benefits.
 

skimple

Golden Member
Feb 4, 2005
1,295
3
81
Are they going to fine fat people too?

Not so sure that they can select which bad behaviors they need to "fine" people for. Smoking is not illegal behavior (yet)
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
Because that is the nature of insurance. Good drivers pay for bad drivers, healthy people pay for unhealthy, etc. I'm not saying it's right - and I agree with you that non-smokers should no pay for smokers. I 'm just saying that's how insurance works in general.

Really? My car insurance premiums are a hell of a lot lower than people with at-fault accidents and DUI on their records. Health insurance rates are based on current health and future risk factors.
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,411
10
0
we all got a company wide email today stating that for our next enrollment for health insurance benefits, you have to declare your tobacco status. You will be considered tobacco free if you you have not used in 30 days. if you do use and not in a program to quit you will be fined $500 bucks.

they are offering free cessation programs.


im so glad i dont smoke.


Good!!!

Wish more companies would do that.

in my book that is extremely intrusive and crosses the line of employee/company boundaries.

I don't think it does, not if the company is paying for health care and their rates are based on health status of their employees.

If a person wants to smoke and put extra burden on company health policy.....they should pay that difference.
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,563
5,966
136
Really? My car insurance premiums are a hell of a lot lower than people with at-fault accidents and DUI on their records. Health insurance rates are based on current health and future risk factors.
Mine too but in my 34 years of driving, I've collected $900 for hail damage.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,682
7,909
126
Are they going to fine fat people too?

Not so sure that they can select which bad behaviors they need to "fine" people for. Smoking is not illegal behavior (yet)

They should put a coin box on elevator, and all employees should show their lunch to their maste... erm supervisor for approval. If lunch doesn't meet guidelines, they should have to pay a fine. I think $10 each per gram for fat and sugar over specification is more than reasonable.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
Are they going to fine fat people too?

Not so sure that they can select which bad behaviors they need to "fine" people for. Smoking is not illegal behavior (yet)

Hopefully they will start.

Maybe we should start requiring people to report their weight on their income taxes so we can charge them more?
 
Apr 17, 2003
37,622
0
76
Really? My car insurance premiums are a hell of a lot lower than people with at-fault accidents and DUI on their records. Health insurance rates are based on current health and future risk factors.

They are...as are mine...but they would be even lower if some portion of your premium was not going to make up payments the insurance company was making for bad drivers. The cost of the bad drivers gets passed on most heavily and most directly to the driver himself, but there is a portion that gets passed on the good drivers.

Think about it this way: bad driver gets into bad accident and there is 100k payout (or policy limit payout, whichever is higher). The driver isn't going to pay 100k for his next policy so the cost has to be absorbed across the board.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
They are not going to piss-test.

On a side note, what Obamacare is all about is forcing young and healthy people, who generally do not care about buying insurance, to be added to the risk pool to lower costs across the board. That is why you will pay a fine if you do not have insurance next year.
 
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