My CPU and video card upgrade

[Jetboy55]

Yep, its finally time to upgrade my vid card. For past few years Ive always upgraded video card after skipping one generation of video chips, and then going for the middle segment of the newest technology. Eg... GeForce 2 upgraded to a GeForce 4 Ti4400. This time I have skipped 2 generations, first GF FX, and the GF FX 5900 series. So my normal plan is'nt going to work.
Cant help but notice the huge performance gains between Radeon 9800, and Radeon X800. I have been considering going with a 9600 XT, or 9800 Pro, both 256 MB. But that X800 looks to be a heck of a performer. Question is: Will I waste my money on the X800, considering Im running a Athlon XP 2500+ Barton CPU, on 333mhz FSB and 512MB of PC2700 DDR memory? I cant upgrade this part of my system for probably another year or longer, and I dont want to waste money on X800 if Im going to be CPU limited. Games Im looking to play are : Jedi Acadamy, Angel of Darkness, Halo, Tron 2.0, Call of Duty, and of course Doom 3 and Half Life 2 when they arrive. Thanks everyone, AnandTech is my one stop shop of computer goodness.

 

[TStep]

For everyone with this question, this article is very helpful. They also have one for P4 scaling.

 

[apoppin]

Depends on your cash situation.

If you want the fastest, then the x800/6800 is for you.

If you want practical, a 9800pro might be in order as it will play ALL the games you mention. What RESolution do you run your monitor at?

ALSO, your X800Pro will NOT be limited by the 2500+ but the X800XT or the 6800U will.

If you buy the (old) Radeon 9800Pro 256bit/256MB - its BIOS can simply be FLASHED into a 9800-XT including the Overdrive function (optimizations, thermal monitoring and automatic o/c'ing) . . .

that's what i got ($223 shipped last week from NewEgg).

it's your call

 

[McArra]

You will be bottlenecked. Buy a 128mb 9800pro.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: McArra
You will be bottlenecked. Buy a 128mb 9800pro.

What's the diff - bottleneckwise - to a 256mb 9800pro[/quote]?



:roll:

The 9800Pro-256 IS a 9800XT with a cheap VPU fan.

do NOT get a 9600-xt; WAAAY too slow (compared with the 9800 series)

 

[McArra]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: McArra
You will be bottlenecked. Buy a 128mb 9800pro.

What's the diff - bottleneckwise - to a 256mb 9800pro

?



:roll:

The 9800Pro-256 IS a 9800XT with a cheap VPU fan.

do NOT get a 9600-xt; WAAAY too slow (compared with the 9800 series)[/quote]

And costs more than a 128mb 9800pro, which willl perform the same in almost all conditions (except 1600x1200 with high AA/AF). 256mb is useless for that core, and makes it more expensive.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: McArra

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: McArra
You will be bottlenecked. Buy a 128mb 9800pro.

What's the diff - bottleneckwise - to a 256mb 9800pro

?



:roll:

The 9800Pro-256 IS a 9800XT with a cheap VPU fan.

do NOT get a 9600-xt; WAAAY too slow (compared with the 9800 series)

And costs more than a 128mb 9800pro, which willl perform the same in almost all conditions (except 1600x1200 with high AA/AF). 256mb is useless for that core, and makes it more expensive.[/quote]Did you miss that the 256 Pro "is" an "XT"?

That is a ~10% perf increase over the 9800Pro-128 for cheap.
I wouldn't call that "uselesss"

:roll:

 

[Jetboy55]

I do run my games and everything else pretty much exclusively at 1024 x 768 on my 17 in monitor. Im a little confused about the comment on the 9800 Pro being a 9800XT with a lessor HS/fan on it, and the ability to flash it to a 9800XT. Is this safe and easy to do? If so maybe thats the way to go. I guess at this resolution, the 256MB part is not really of good use for me. Thanks.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Jetboy55
I do run my games and everything else pretty much exclusively at 1024 x 768 on my 17 in monitor. Im a little confused about the comment on the 9800 Pro being a 9800XT with a lessor HS/fan on it, and the ability to flash it to a 9800XT. Is this safe and easy to do? If so maybe thats the way to go. I guess at this resolution, the 256MB part is not really of good use for me. Thanks.

1024x768? Don't bother with the x800/6800 unless you like the 'braggin' rights'.

a little confused?
Go HERE EVERYthing U need to FLASH your Pro into an 'XT'

Read it ALL & follow the instructions to the letter . . .

Safe - ABsolutely - worst case is a "bad" flash; just flash it back - read carefully and print out any instructions you need (remember you will be working with DOS).



Oops - THIS is the 256MB Pro > XT guide; the other one is general

 

[McArra]

I wouldn't call it safe, and same of the 9800pro 128mb (powercolor) also come with R360 core. Just overclocking it's safer.

 

[Jetboy55]

I think Im going to go for the 9800 Pro, I may get the Saphire one with 256mb so in future I can mod it to a 9800 XT. Either that or a MSI 9800 Pro with 128mb which Ive read is a very quiet card. Thanks everyone.
I can just overclock the 256mb card instead of flashing it right? Maybe use Power Strip, that way I wont be so obviously voiding the warranty? Thanks again.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: McArra
I wouldn't call it safe, and same of the 9800pro 128mb (powercolor) also come with R360 core. Just overclocking it's safer.

Flashing a 256MB Pro > XT is TOTALLY safe . . .

What could go wrong that cannot be fixed?

:roll:

AND, with my (new Pro-256>XT) "XT" - it is OPTIMIZED over your o/c'd Pro PLUS now has AUTO thermal management - it will drop back to 418Mhz when it is too hot (even 411Mhz with 2d) - it can clock to 450hhz (i think under some pretty "ideal" conditions).

IF i add a better vga cooler (the Pro cooling IS inferior to the stock XT cooler) - for $10 (no soldering required) - I can o/c the xt even further . . .

Of course you DO void the warranty by flashing the BIOS(and i guess it would be unethical to flash it back for rma or even practically impossible if the HW fails) . . .

 

[Gamingphreek]

The Pro and the XT are not the same save for cooling. The XT uses the R360 core not the 350!

I would stay away from flashing video card BIOS.. it voids your warranty and if something goes wrong or it cant run that high then your screwed if you cant flash it back. If you do want to flash it then i would OC the card first run it through a series of stress tests, and then if it is completely stable flash it.

Also it will not have Overdrive or Thermal Management. That is why the R360 core is different than the 350. It comes with a built in thermistor, and it has Overdrive features. Flashing this will not give you this. It might tighten or loosen memory timings, draw more or less power, any thing to that extent, but it will not give you different features.

-Kevin

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
The Pro and the XT are not the same save for cooling. The XT uses the R360 core not the 350!

I would stay away from flashing video card BIOS.. it voids your warranty and if something goes wrong or it cant run that high then your screwed if you cant flash it back. If you do want to flash it then i would OC the card first run it through a series of stress tests, and then if it is completely stable flash it.

Also it will not have Overdrive or Thermal Management. That is why the R360 core is different than the 350. It comes with a built in thermistor, and it has Overdrive features. Flashing this will not give you this. It might tighten or loosen memory timings, draw more or less power, any thing to that extent, but it will not give you different features.

-Kevin

You are completely wrong. 100%

:roll:

1) The 256mb Pro and the XT are identical (r360) cores. . . . At least the newer ones with Hynix 2.5ns memory.

2) IF you misflash the BIOS you can SIMPLY FLASH IT BACK. no ifs ands or buts.

3) My 256MB Pro IS an XT (after the flash) and it DOES (now) have Overdrive and Thermal Management.

4) The ONLY difference is the XT has a better VGA cooler than the Pro

That's all. Please don't post misinfo.

 

[Gamingphreek]

OMG... there is too a core difference. R350 and R360 are not the same #!!!!!

Yes i can understand that the 256mb cores might be shipping iwht R360's now but they are NOT the same.

If you misflash the BIOS and fry your card or you cant see an image then you obviously cant flash it back to the original!

Yes the coolers are different with the XT being better but there are other significant differences. (Have to have a thermal probe in the XT not there in the R350 core)

Im not posting misinformation... you need to check where you are reading this crap you post!!!

-Kevin

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
OMG... there is too a core difference. R350 and R360 are not the same #!!!!!

Yes i can understand that the 256mb cores might be shipping iwht R360's now but they are NOT the same.

If you misflash the BIOS and fry your card or you cant see an image then you obviously cant flash it back to the original!

Yes the coolers are different with the XT being better but there are other significant differences. (Have to have a thermal probe in the XT not there in the R350 core)

Im not posting misinformation... you need to check where you are reading this crap you post!!!

-Kevin

Yes there is a core difference - from the 128MB version) - BOTH the 9800Pro 256 and the XT are r360.

Yes they are the same - IDENTICAL - except for the BIOS and VGA cooler.

Learn SOMEthing about vid bios flashing. Boot together - first with a PCI and then reflash the misflashed card.

The Radeon 9800Pro -256 DOES have the thermal probe - the bios flash activated mine.

I have the 256 MB Pro. You are not up to date. Try "search"

:roll:

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: apoppin
your X800Pro will NOT be limited by the 2500+ but the X800XT or the 6800U will.

Are you sure about that? Because from what I've read, the only way you're not CPU limited with a 2500+ or so is if you turn ALL the eye candy on and run at 1280x1024 at the least with 4XAA/16XAF. That's with an X800PRO.

I suppose if you had that much graphics power you would want to run at those settings anyway, but if I were buying one of the newer cards I would want at least a 3200+ A64 to push it properly.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: apoppin
your X800Pro will NOT be limited by the 2500+ but the X800XT or the 6800U will.

Are you sure about that? Because from what I've read, the only way you're not CPU limited with a 2500+ or so is if you turn ALL the eye candy on and run at 1280x1024 at the least with 4XAA/16XAF. That's with an X800PRO.

I suppose if you had that much graphics power you would want to run at those settings anyway, but if I were buying one of the newer cards I would want at least a 3200+ A64 to push it properly.

Well, it's in one of the dozens of reviews that compared exactly that.

And - YES - i AM referring to a HIGH resolution with Max EVERYthing ON and MAX aa/af.

WTH else would you consider such a card? to get 10000FPS in Quake at 640x480?

I want an A64 3700+ to push the 6800u properly . . .

but i'll have to settle for my current 3.3Ghz P4 and the last gen 9800-xt
(my monitor's best res is 1152x864@85hz for my 19" Samsung 955df)

it's all good . . . sigh

 

[DerwenArtos12]

that article has motivated me to not to upgrad my cpu for atleast 6 months. thanks guys you just saved me about 700 bucks.

 

[Jetboy55]

There.....I updated "My Rig". Forgot to do it 1.5 yrs ago when I built this machine.

I purchased an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB from Best Buy. I usually buy my pc gear online for the savings, but every once in a while you just want to have it in your greedy little hands when you write out the check. Anyway, I just installed it and so far have only had time or run 3D Mark 2003. Score went from 1641 marks to 5244 marks. Not bad I might say with my 1.5 year old system. Now my GeForce 4 Ti4400 will make a nice upgrade for the GeForce 2 Pro thats in my sons PC (built that one 3 years ago) which has a A7V133 mobo and Athlon Thunderbird 1.2ghz. Thanks for all the great info and heated discussion.