My dad found out I'm agnostic

[Pacfanweb]

That statement is more foolish than what doke said. You just pulled it out of thin air with absolutely no evidence, then concluded it by assuming it's a statement of fact. Perhaps that is your observation. But let me ask you... how many agnostics and atheists do you really know? And how many are lesser members of society than your "people of faith"? Perhaps you consider someone is a "better member of society" when they donate to your church or take part in your Sunday School bake sales.

pparently people of faith are more likely to be judgmental arseholes too. [q/]

Oh shut up.

One of the most annoying things that people who think that they're "correct" do is call different opinions a phase. As if it's a phase. Are you that afraid of differing ideas that you have to make yourself believe that it's just a phase? People of faith are not more happy, more successful, raise better kids, or kinder to people. Hell, I'd argue that religious fundamentalism is the worst disease to plague mankind.

I'm 21, atheist and 100% NOT confused. I'm happy, I'm raking in the dough, and I'm probably nicer to people than you are, what with having to have worked as a CSR for some time.

You're no better than atheists and agnostics. You can't argue with THAT.

You are all proving his point about people of faith being kinder, etc. Funny, the only posts responding to his claims are people insulting him for saying exactly what they are doing.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: spidey07
Keep in mind once you leave the Church you can't come back. So I can understand why this would bother him. He just wants what is best for you.

What are you talking about?

I always thought catholics can't come back if they denounce their faith. There's a few other things you can do that you can't come back as well like divorce.

<---Catholic

Ok, first off that is not true. St. Paul killed many christians and is one of the greatest saints ever to live. If you post on this forum you should be able to do research. Only a few things that you believe in make you never able to come back to the Church.

Apostasy (canon 1364),
Heresy (canon 1364),
Schism (canon 1364),
Desecration of the Eucharist (canon 1367),
Physical violence against the Pope (canon 1370),
Attempted sacramental absolution of a partner in a sin against the sixth commandment of the Decalogue (canon 1378),
Ordination of a bishop without papal mandate (canon 1382),
Direct violation of the sacramental seal of confession by a confessor (canon 1388),
Procurement of a completed abortion (canon 1398), or
Being a conspiring or necessary accomplice in any of the above (canon 1329).


Second, I feel sorry for the 15 year old who is going this tragic time. I believe that God exist due to one simple fact and that fact alone. The Sun comes up everyday and goes down without ever failing or wavering. I look at the numerous animals, plants, humans which co-exist in such a order that without Divine Intervention it could not be done.

<snip>

I doubt you care about my opinion, but to me, such intellectual laziness forfeits precisely that which god supposedly designed for you: A capable mind. You have the capacity to probe the nature of things and instead choose the simpler, "Ahh, that's complex; it must be God" method of "explanation."

I'm honestly very interested in how some people seem to have this "god center" and others don't. I believe we all have the desire for something greater, but some people will excuse almost all rationalism in an attempt to realize it. It's not unlike people that so greatly believe in UFOs that they'll see it in any phenomenon they can't immediately explain. As they say, the answers are where you find them.

Anyway, I'm not attacking you; we're all free to believe what we wish.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Apparently people of faith are more likely to be judgmental arseholes too.

No judgement here, just stating the truth. I don't have to google for you.

Faith offers a positive influence of the mind. You cannot refute this, take basic psychology. One of the first steps in psychoanalysis is understanding one's belief system and religion.

 

[atybimf]

Originally posted by: Sphexi
Is that the same as being young and emo? It certainly sounds like it, since at the ripe old age of 13 I really doubt you had the experience and the reasoning powers to decide whether there is a God or not. You may think you do, but you don't.

So at what age are we capable of formulating our own beliefs and thinking for ourselves?

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: atybimf

Originally posted by: Sphexi
Is that the same as being young and emo? It certainly sounds like it, since at the ripe old age of 13 I really doubt you had the experience and the reasoning powers to decide whether there is a God or not. You may think you do, but you don't.

So at what age are we capable of formulating our own beliefs and thinking for ourselves?

From the day you are born Keep in mind that God was introduced to you because your parents made you go to church and told you that's how it is. It sounds like you are beginning to question that, and you have every right to do so.

 

[Cabages]

Originally posted by: cherrytwist
Just tell him you're gay and he'll forget about this Catholic stuff.

QFT

Worked for my brother (although he really is gay). They never made him go to church ever again, also got away with more things, like drinking and smoking.

Me, im stuck with either getting kicked out of the house or going to church, and not having a life for 2 months when I drink.

 

[jupiter57]

You're 15 years old and looking for advice in a forum that is (largely) populated by 12-13 year olds?
Best of luck.

 

[Srfrbum]

Op,
It's OK ! Just think about it.... Whats the worse that could happen if you strive too far away from the catholic religion ? My guess is that you will have your balls burnt off by satan every day, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again for all of eternity.

Just trying to express my views !

P.S. It's ganna hurt like a bitch too !!!!

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: jupiter57
You're 15 years old and looking for advice in a forum that is (largely) populated by 12-13 year olds?
Best of luck.

your post was clearly 3 minutes too early

 

[atybimf]

Originally posted by: Srfrbum
Op,
It's OK ! Just think about it.... Whats the worse that could happen if you strive too far away from the catholic religion ? My guess is that you will have your balls burnt off by satan every day, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again for all of eternity.

Just trying to express my views !

P.S. It's ganna hurt like a bitch too !!!!

well done. now leave

 

[atybimf]

Originally posted by: jupiter57
You're 15 years old and looking for advice in a forum that is (largely) populated by 12-13 year olds?
Best of luck.

good call v

Originally posted by: Srfrbum
Op,
It's OK ! Just think about it.... Whats the worse that could happen if you strive too far away from the catholic religion ? My guess is that you will have your balls burnt off by satan every day, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again for all of eternity.

Just trying to express my views !

P.S. It's ganna hurt like a bitch too !!!!

 

[JackBurton]

OP, just remember, logic and reason are the tools of the Devil!!

 

[Falloutboy]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
Easiest way to do things,
Step 1. Never talk about religion with your father again, it will only lead to trouble.
Step 2. Still go to church, go through the motions, again avoiding conflict is the key.
Step 3. Get a job that makes you work when you would normally go to church. You now have an excuse not to be there and are making money at the same time.
Step 4. Keep this up until you move out, and never forget step 1.

yup thats pretty good advise.

 

[atybimf]

Originally posted by: JackBurton
OP, just remember, logic and reason are the tools of the Devil!!

ugh, you sound like the new priest we got a few months back that is really fundy and has brainwashed everyone.

 

[xtknight]

The main reason I lean toward being agnostic is because of the very people who try to force me into a particular religion. These people are in general immature, indifferent, and very volatile.

 

[irishScott]

The whole point of faith is that it gets questioned. My Mom was Southern Baptist, my Dad was hardcore Catholic. When I told them I didn't believe in god as they did, they practically cried. I was agnostic until about 6 months ago when I made up my own version of Christianity (I believe the technical term is "self-discoverer"). However, my version is probably the most secular the world has ever seen.

My beliefs only exist within my core values. My opinions are a combination of those beliefs and logic. I'll pray occasionally, but I practically never go to church, and the only holy music I sing/listen to is what I'm required to sing for my University's chamber choir. And I sure as sh!t don't live my life to "earn a spot in heaven". I'll live as well as I can according to my own human sense. If that isn't good enough for God, god can bite me.

Quote I try to follow:
I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of god. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What god desires is here [points to head] and here [points to heart] and by what you decide to do everyday, will make you a good man? or not.
-Hospitaler, Kingdom of Heaven.

Remind your dad that true faith is meant to be questioned.



Also, remember that the core issue here is faith. It's not Christianity, Islam, or Buddhism; it's not whether the bible is contradictory or not. It's not about whether or not the world is losing faith, and it's sure as sh!t not about one religion or other being bent on taking over the world.

It's about, IMHO, deciding whether you have it in you to believe in something you cannot comprehend or justify logically. It's about having faith, not about having knowledge. Like that snap of intuition when your working on, say, a Math problem, and you have the solution before proving it on the paper. Only difference is that faith's never proved in ways that can be expressed logically. Only stupid religious people claim to "know" there is a god. I personally "know" sh!t about whether there is a god or not, but I believe because I feel good when I believe. I feel like I'm greater then I would be otherwise. And generally when I feel good, I do good.

And if I'm wrong, then I'll have lived a good life, and I'll have nothing to lose. But I have faith that I'm not

I'm not trying to convert you one way or the other. These are just my beliefs and their partial justifications. You'll have to figure your's out on your own.

 

[Luthien]

If your dad is a staunch believer "the bible is all true or none of it" then you will never heal the rift created by religion between you. 50 years from now if your dad is still alive this will be a point of contention between you and it will drive you nuts. You will be trying to change each others minds for the rest of your lives. Best course of action is to move out see them for the holidays when you can and forget about it the rest of the years. Never bring it up and if it is thrown in your face you have two choices. Tell them up front if they don't respect you then you will have nothing to do with them or you put up with it every holiday, etc. Enjoy the rest of your life fighting with religious insanity.

Edit. You can live in a stalemate but it will tax your mental health because it will always be there beneath the surface an unsurpassable rift betwixt you draining your energy away. VERY SAD IMO.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: JS80
lol @ the worries of a 15 year old

If God made the world fair, why does a rose have thorns?

 

[hans030390]

First off, I'd just say either talk to your dad or some other respectable Christian figure (I would generally consider that to be a youth leader in my church) that has gone through extensive studies about your beliefs. I know you've probably been reading "anti"-Christian-belief articles/information, but you'll find that there is a lot of support for what the Bible says outside of the Bible or religious thoughts (meaning somewhat scientific to all scientific/archeology). Some of the best ways to get real, logical answers (religious or not) is to ask the experts and avoid the internet. Books are one good source for that (PM me and I could recommend you a couple that you may or may not have read, but they're very good). That could at least lean you more towards believing in God...there's no hard proof, but there is evidence (outside of, "I see the sun, hooray!"). I think with many many GOOD answers from "Christianity experts" to the questions that have lead you from Christianity, you will have an easier time talking to your dad about it.

If you're completely uninteresting in perhaps going back to Christianity (not my personal recommendation...I don't buy into the attacks on Christianity/religions for not being logical), then don't get pro-Christianity answers. Skip that step, but go back and talk to your dad. You should talk about everything that you possibly can (which will involve religion) in hopes to mend your relationship. As a Christian, he should be "upset", but not mad. He should try to "bring you back", but never force you. He's handling it the wrong way.

Either way, if you have any hopes of fixing your relationship, you'll be hearing some pro-Christianity talk...you could get all of the info "under your belt" by getting certain, good pro-Christianity answers and have an easier time talking to your dad, or you can go straight to him...but I know he'll try to bring you back, and he will likely do a much worse job at that then an "expert" (whether you personally talk to them or not) would do. I don't know if that would result in the best sort of talk for you guys to try and mend your relationship on.

I may sound confusing...yeah, probably. Just know that it's never wrong to question your faith. Doubting? Yeah, but questioning should prompt us to seek answers...which can change our views either way depending on the view of the source we get the answers from (even some pro-Christian sources are so poor that they make Christianity sound stupid).

Christianity is basically all faith, but it's logical faith. There is plenty of knowledge out there to back Christianity...it's not completely blind faith. That's a mistake some people make about it. (Not necessarily a direct reply to the OP, but just in general)

In short, as a Christian, I know why your dad feels this way, but he's handling it the wrong way. I don't think he should just accept you, but he should try to bring you back through logical reasoning/arguments (by arguments I mean non-aggressive). I would personally try to persuade you back to Christianity, but I'm not an expert...I myself still have questions and try to find answers (So I bring up the ask an expert with pro-Christianity)...so you're dad will do the same, probably even more so because you are his son. He shouldn't do it through anger, though...that's wrong. So I think it's up to you to mend your relationship, talk to him about religious thoughts, etc. Hopefully that all goes well, but I know what you're in for.

Kinda off topic, but this is actually something I thought on my own in 5th grade (I know I wasn't the first, but I've seen it used afterwards): What do you have to lose in being Christian? If it's all a lie, big deal. At least you can say you tried to live a good life. If it is truth...well, yeah, you know the rest. It's a win-win situation (unless some other religion is true, which is not good...better than believing nothing though, I think).

I'm sorry for going on and on...I enjoy discussing this with some people or trying to help them in some way (so you could PM me if needed)...and I also am waiting around for my friends to finish up something for our school work.

 

[SmoochyTX]

I am so glad I'm not 15 anymore.

 

[Luthien]

Or... Your dad can send you to Jesus Camp for reconditioning. LOL

Jesus Camp Trailer

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: atybimf
Here's a little background. I'm currently 15 and I grew up Catholic. I faithfully attended mass every Sunday (and sometimes Saturday) since I was young. Around the age of 13 is when I started actually thinking about my faith. I reasoned that there is no way of knowing whether there is a God or not. I became agnostic, however I didn't tell my dad and I continued to participate in mass.

So anyway, a while back I had bookmarked this site. Then this afternoon my dad, unbeknown to me, got on my computer to use the internet and "stumbled" (snooped) upon the bookmark. He confronted me about it and said that he does not want websites like this to corrupt me. I told him that the website had nothing to do with it, that I had decided on my own that I was agnostic quite a while ago. I told him I had avoided telling him in fear of his reaction, but he wouldn't have any of it.

Now I don't know how I can mend my relationship with my dad.

[disclaimer]no, i did not read this whole thread.[/disclaimer]

you are becoming your own person. congratulations.

i've always thought that when a person gets to the level of maturity that they are able to make good decisions on their own that it should be their choice as to whether or not they want to practice a religion. i think your dad should respect that. that being said though i think you are just spreading your wings and years from now you will most likely come back to your roots.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: Luthien
Or... Your dad can send you to Jesus Camp for reconditioning. LOL

Jesus Camp Trailer

Ok...is it bad that I consider myself as a committed Christian, and I see this as...weird?

I mean, speaking in tongues, crying for salvation...Yeah, some people do that (I don't personally understand it, but I'm not calling it stupid)...but...I don't know.

Personally I was just at a convention of sorts, and they "train" you to be "warriors" for Christ. It was actually a great "experience", but NOTHING like that video. I bet this "camp" has some good values behind it, but it looks like it's being taken in the wrong way.

BTW, what's up with smashing those cups? Did they have the devil painted on them or something?

If I had a kid and it smashed my cups after some camp...Hmm...Nope.

 

[lupi]

Hope you're doing good in school cause ya only got three years till you're looking at the backside of the door.

 

[atybimf]

Originally posted by: hans030390
What do you have to lose in being Christian? If it's all a lie, big deal. At least you can say you tried to live a good life. If it is truth...well, yeah, you know the rest. It's a win-win situation (unless some other religion is true, which is not good...better than believing nothing though, I think).

I would not truly be 'believing' if I went into it looking at it as a win-win situation. I would just be going through the motions as I am now..