My dad found out I'm agnostic

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Jun 14, 2003
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Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Sqube
Kudos to you for turning a critical eye to your faith and coming to your own decision.

The fact that your father can't handle it says more about him than it does about. It's not your place to have to "fix" anything. It's his place to realize that he can't force his faith upon you. Good luck.

All kids go through this phase in their youth. Then when they grow up they realize their parents were right. They're just "confused".

1) People of faith are more happy, more successful, raise better kids, are kinder and are generally better members of society.

You can't argue with that.


of the worlds most successful, richest men and women....how many are proper christians/muslims etc

this will be interesting to know, because i always see a super rich business dude and cant help but think, ruthlessness and the bending of morals/ethics got him/her there.
 
Jun 14, 2003
10,442
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Originally posted by: manowar821
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Sqube
Kudos to you for turning a critical eye to your faith and coming to your own decision.

The fact that your father can't handle it says more about him than it does about. It's not your place to have to "fix" anything. It's his place to realize that he can't force his faith upon you. Good luck.

All kids go through this phase in their youth. Then when they grow up they realize their parents were right. They're just "confused".

1) People of faith are more happy, more successful, raise better kids, are kinder and are generally better members of society.

You can't argue with that.

Oh shut up.

One of the most annoying things that people who think that they're "correct" do is call different opinions a phase. As if it's a phase. Are you that afraid of differing ideas that you have to make yourself believe that it's just a phase? People of faith are not more happy, more successful, raise better kids, or kinder to people. Hell, I'd argue that religious fundamentalism is the worst disease to plague mankind.

I'm 21, atheist and 100% NOT confused. I'm happy, I'm raking in the dough, and I'm probably nicer to people than you are, what with having to have worked as a CSR for some time.

You're no better than atheists and agnostics. You can't argue with THAT.


yeah definately not a phase at all

my mum n her side of the the family are not relgious at all. on my dads side they had some devout christians. my dad isnt terribly religious but he does like to watch religious type movies...jesus of nazareth etc he has one thats like 10 dvds long or something, so i think he is a very casual christain in some respects.

however he never imposed on me or my brother any views at all, and i have grown up....listened to what i was taugt in RE class at school an decided it sounded like a lot of mumbo jumbo and i liked the scientific arguements better.

i like logical explanations, i like seeing causes, effects, reasons, proof.

for some reason i just cant get on with "stories" ...which is why i never liked english lessons either. i mean the bible is just a story really, it could be 100% truth, it could be complete BS, no body really knows, but it does give people something to believe in eitherway.

some people are the otherway round, they enjoy stories and their minds absorb them and its all good. it doesnt make either of us any less imaginative than the other....just different.

to this day, i rarely ever pick up a good book and have a read. its just not interesting, i cant connect with whats being said. many of my books have an engineering/scientific back ground.



 

Sunner

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
11,641
0
76
Whether you believe that God, evolution, Ronald McDonald, or whatever gave it to you, your brain is truly a wonderful thing, truly a marvelous organ.
Use it to it's fullest, make up your own mind about things, and don't let anyone give you ****** because you do, you'll be a better person in the end by doing it.
I don't believe in a God, but even if he does exist, I doubt he's gonna send me downstairs because I didn't believe in him, I would assume he'd make that decision based on how I treated others, etc, instead.

As for your father, as tempting as it is to just advice you to tell him to mind his own business, that's obviously not as practical for one's father as it would be for some nutjob harassing you on the street
I'd say you know him quite a bit better than anyone around here, so in the end you're going to have to come up with a solution yourself, since the solution will be almost entirely based on what kind of person he is, no one size fits all for this problem.
 

ghostman

Golden Member
Jul 12, 2000
1,819
1
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Originally posted by: Rayden
Originally posted by: ghostman
You should be proud that you have the ability to question your beliefs rather than blindly accept whatever is spoon-fed to you. Better than being a hypocrite, like so many "religious" people have turned out to be. I think the first response is as good as you're going to get in this thread (with doze's response being the worst).

Can you be "spoon-fed, blind, hypocrite" and not religious? Implied in these statements is an entrenched correlation between religion and being unable to think for yourself. How come no one ever blames non-religious people of not thinking for themselves? Why can't people grow up in a religious home, follow their parents' religion and think for themselves? If your religion is to mean anything to you, you have to question it at some point and decide if you really want to follow it or not. I think we can both agree that people who don't question their faith are doing something wrong. But can we agree that intelligent people who think for themselves can choose religion?

Yes, intelligent people can choose the religious path. But let's be honest. A lot of religion IS spoonfed to you when you're young. My family is not Christian (far from), but growing up in America, I was inundated with a lot of religious tidbits. I didn't think to question the statements in the Pledge of Allegiance, US currency, or wonder why they had a weekly event on Saturday at the park with free food, contests and gospels reciting when I was 5, 7, or 10 years old. TV shows (sitcoms even) talked about God, going to church, weddings with priests, etc. as if it were common knowledge. I grew up occasionally crossing myself and praying to God the way they did it on TV, talking to God the way I wish for a bday present, having never attended church and never knowing what the bible was. And remember, I'm from a family that was NOT religious. Had I been brought up by a Christian family, I may be arguing the opposite point right now. So yes, I believe religion, to a large extent, is spoon-fed. And yes, impressionable children will accept things blindly (Santa Claus, tooth fairy, bogeyman). Even intelligent adults will (UFOs, conspiracy theories, WMDs in Iraq) if they hear it from the right people. When you grow up in a Christian community and everyone accepts God as truth, who are you to question it?

There were negative connotations in HOW I structured my statement, but I still stand behind WHAT I said. If one can grow up and independently choose religion on his own, then so be it. I have nothing against religion, in itself. I think it serves a good purpose, usually. I believe people WANT a solution for what's unexplainable or hurtful and if religion can help reduce the trauma, then it's worth it. But I don't view people who have faith to be better than those who don't and I find the "holier than thou" (excuse the intentional pun) attitude that some have to be laughable. It's worse when you witness what I call "religious hypocrites" (I'm sure you know some... just turn on the news), who violate the very teachings that are preached in their church every week. These are people who clearly were brought up to go through the motions of church, prayers, etc., but who have no respect for what they preach. I think the OP would be worse off going through the motions of his religion, than thinking about the conclusion he has managed to decide for himself (despite his spoon-feeding).

To answer your question: Yes, I feel you can be spoonfed, blind and a hypocrite and not religious. You can also be independent-minded and a devout Christian. I have nothing against what people end up choosing on their own. I do have something against (call it bitterness) religion imposing itself into my life (And I don't really mean the "God" statements printed on coins and whatnot... I can understand tradition/history and religion's role). Even though religious people feel they are "saving me" and they are "trying to help", that is a personal belief that I do not share. Lots of cults do the same and I don't see much difference in the two.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
15
81
Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Originally posted by: JS80
lol @ the worries of a 15 year old

If God made the world fair, why does a rose have thorns?

So that Poison could have their hit song:

Every rose has its thorn
Just like every night has its dawn
Just like every cowboy sings his sad, sad song...
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,362
5,032
136
Originally posted by: Shawn
LOL, who cares what your dad thinks. I told my parents I didn't believe in their BS around the same time I stopped believing in santa clause.

Herr Klaus ist ECHT! I saw him ze ozher day!
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
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I'm glad you came to that conclusion, because the fact of the matter is no one knows that god exists and those that claim they know either way are just deluding themselves. If you were to critically examine people's beliefs, you'd find a ton of them to be actually agnostic with varying opinions - a deists would be agnostics leaning towards theism, while atheists would be sceptical agnostics.


My advice? Read a lot. This will obviously depend on how interested you are in these subjects, but try to read the books/views of other religions, read what various philosophers have to say, read a lot of history, biology and science in general. It will take you a while, but if you do this with an open mind at one point you'll be able to form a consistent, inclusive view of world that you will have no trouble defending. As for your dad, if he's like most people he'll likely respect your position if he knows its based on solid reasoning.
 

Madwand1

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2006
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Originally posted by: Zstream
Apostasy (canon 1364),
Heresy (canon 1364),

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01624b.htm

APOSTASY A FIDE, or PERFIDIÆ

Perfidiæ is the complete and voluntary abandonment of the Christian religion, whether the apostate embraces another religion such as Paganism, Judaism, Mohammedanism, etc., or merely makes profession of Naturalism, Rationalism, etc. The heretic differs from the apostate in that he only denies one or more of the doctrines of revealed religion, whereas the apostate denies the religion itself, a sin which has always been looked upon as one of the most grievous.

Today the temporal penalties formerly inflicted on apostates and heretics cannot be enforced, and have fallen into abeyance. The spiritual penalties are the same as those which apply to heretics. In order, however, to incur these penalties, it is necessary, in accordance with the general principles of canon law, that the apostasy should be shown in some way. Apostates, with all who receive, protect, or befriend them, incur excommunication, reserved speciali modo to the Sovereign Pontiff (Constitution Apostolicæ Sedis, n° 1).

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm

(a) Excommunications Specially Reserved to the Pope

These are twelve in number and are imposed upon the following persons:

(1) "All apostates from the Christian Faith, heretics of every name and sect, and those who give them credence, who receive or countenance them, and generally all those who take up their defence." Strictly speaking, an apostate is one who goes over to a non Christian religion, e.g. Islam; to such apostates are assimilated those who publicly renounce all religion; this apostasy is not to be presumed; it is evident that both kinds of apostates exclude themselves from the Church.

If I understand this correctly, then technically, the OP is approaching apostasy, and if enforced, his father could also be excommunicated because of it.

These are charged notions, and rather than go off with this assumption, I'll just put it up for any interested comments on correctness and enforcement.
 

Shyatic

Platinum Member
Apr 5, 2004
2,164
34
91
If I may... I was in a similar situation at a similar age. My parents were Muslim and I got the same line from them.

In recent years, they have come to know me as a good human being, a caring person, and one that's not (too) judgmental of others. This is in comparison to "religious" people who judge others constantly, saying they will burn in hell for <insert heinous act here>, and then doing all kinds of talking behind people's backs, etc.

Just tell your dad what I told my parents. "I am a good person. And that isn't changing. Faith isn't something you can give me -- I have to have it. And I think right now so long as I'm a good person, and act how a good Christian would, I think that should be enough for you."

Of course, they are going to tell you to stfu -- but say what you can calmly now.. then when you're older and they have come to appreciate it, you can throw it in their face
 

atybimf

Platinum Member
Sep 17, 2005
2,390
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Originally posted by: Ausm
That link is amazing I must send this to every holy roller I know


Ausm
Yeah, I thought it was pretty awesome myself.


And thanks again to everyone who has posted. I'm going to stand my ground and just tell my dad that that's my stance on faith and he will have to live with it. I'm sure he'll be unhappy for a while, but it'll get better.
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,206
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
Originally posted by: Amused
A man has to choose his own path. If your father will not sit down and rationally discuss your feelings and thoughts on this matter, just refuse to discuss it any further. To do so will only deepen the divide.

Thankfully my father encouraged us to read everything and think for ourselves.

:thumbsup: to your dad
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,004
14,538
146
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: Amused
A man has to choose his own path. If your father will not sit down and rationally discuss your feelings and thoughts on this matter, just refuse to discuss it any further. To do so will only deepen the divide.

Thankfully my father encouraged us to read everything and think for ourselves.

:thumbsup: to your dad

Unfortunately he died just when I was reaching the age where I realized I didn't know everything and my parents weren't just lame old people.
 

HombrePequeno

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2001
4,657
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My parents found out I was an atheist a pretty similar way. My mom was looking over my shoulder when I was reading a thread (I think on here) about fallacies in the bible or something to that effect. The only thing she told me was to not believe everything I read on the internets. She really hasn't said anything negative about my beliefs since because I doubt she really cares. I'm still the same person regardless of my religious beliefs or lack thereof.
 

Turkish

Lifer
May 26, 2003
15,549
1
81
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Sqube
Kudos to you for turning a critical eye to your faith and coming to your own decision.

The fact that your father can't handle it says more about him than it does about. It's not your place to have to "fix" anything. It's his place to realize that he can't force his faith upon you. Good luck.

All kids go through this phase in their youth. Then when they grow up they realize their parents were right. They're just "confused".

1) People of faith are more happy, more successful, raise better kids, are kinder and are generally better members of society.

You can't argue with that.

I'll argue with that.

I believe in a supreme being myself even though I am not a member of any organized religion. I attended mosques, churches, etc. through my life and came to the realization that many religious people either fake or are forced to fake their happiness because they feel that they'd be abandoned if they were to show their true colors.

I am sorry that you haven't realized this.
 

Thetech

Senior member
Mar 12, 2005
571
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Originally posted by: Vortex22
Originally posted by: doze
If you live in your parents house then you play by their rules

You have plenty of time to be an emo agnostic vegetarian (+ whatever else is currently trendy) when you grow up and move out.

Sorry, living in someone's house doesn't mean you have an obligation to agree with them on religious grounds. Almost every time someone brings up this "their house, their rules" BS it's completely asinine. There are some cases where it's valid, but most of the time I see it on these forums it's completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Lol, your right. Tell anyone who says "My house, My rules" in an invalid situation to try living in a restrictive country then the government can say "Our Country, Our land Our rules".

I can understand that being said in some instances but it's not valid in this one.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
A lot of the teachings of the Bible are worth listening to. Have you ever read the Bible through from page 1 to the last page?

If not, why not?
 

Shyatic

Platinum Member
Apr 5, 2004
2,164
34
91
Originally posted by: piasabird
A lot of the teachings of the Bible are worth listening to. Have you ever read the Bible through from page 1 to the last page?

If not, why not?

So are some of Aesop's Fables... that doesn't mean I am going to pray to the Tortise and the Hare.
 

MrK6

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2004
4,458
4
81
Originally posted by: Scribe
Originally posted by: piasabird
A lot of the teachings of the Bible are worth listening to. Have you ever read the Bible through from page 1 to the last page?

If not, why not?

So are some of Aesop's Fables... that doesn't mean I am going to pray to the Tortise and the Hare.
Wow, I actually laughed out loud at that one, cheers to you .

Honestly though, in response to the OP, be polite/congenial about it and state this is who you are. A good father loves his son no matter what happens, just try and stick it out.

I enjoy reading these religious threads because they're a comedy goldmine. People desperately clinging to their faiths is just ridiculous to the point of hilarity.

*goes back to reading*
 

Turkish

Lifer
May 26, 2003
15,549
1
81
Originally posted by: piasabird
A lot of the teachings of the Bible are worth listening to. Have you ever read the Bible through from page 1 to the last page?

If not, why not?

This thread and the likes of the poster above prove to me once again how illogical religious people become when their belief system/faith is being questioned by other people.
 
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