My dad found out I'm agnostic

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: atybimf

Originally posted by: spidey07
Keep in mind once you leave the Church you can't come back. So I can understand why this would bother him. He just wants what is best for you.

very good point. I'm glad he cares enough to make an issue about it. however our relationship is now strained to the point where its weird sitting in the same room as him and he's not being very accepting.

Well you have to think to the future. Catholic women are the best out there - they're horney, they like to please their man, and in general they are HOT. So winging it for some high quality tail wouldn't be a bad course of action.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: atybimf

Originally posted by: spidey07
Keep in mind once you leave the Church you can't come back. So I can understand why this would bother him. He just wants what is best for you.

very good point. I'm glad he cares enough to make an issue about it. however our relationship is now strained to the point where its weird sitting in the same room as him and he's not being very accepting.

Well you have to think to the future. Catholic women are the best out there - they're horney, they like to please their man, and in general they are HOT. So winging it for some high quality tail wouldn't be a bad course of action.

On the other hand, they won't have sex with you before marraige. And when they do, the only position they'll agree to do is missionary.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
Easiest way to do things,
Step 1. Never talk about religion with your father again, it will only lead to trouble.
Step 2. Still go to church, go through the motions, again avoiding conflict is the key.
Step 3. Get a job that makes you work when you would normally go to church. You now have an excuse not to be there and are making money at the same time.
Step 4. Keep this up until you move out, and never forget step 1.

 

[40sTheme]

Originally posted by: doze
If you live in your parents house then you play by their rules

You have plenty of time to be an emo agnostic vegetarian (+ whatever else is currently trendy) when you grow up and move out.

That is very foolish. Religion should not be forced by a parent once a child begins to think about life for himself in a higher manner. Any religious decision by an older child such as atybimf should not be overguarded and overreacted upon (sorry for strange grammar). It really irks me that you would generalize him in the 'rebel adolescent' category even though you know nothing about him. Don't jump to conclusions like that.

 

[atybimf]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: atybimf

Originally posted by: spidey07
Keep in mind once you leave the Church you can't come back. So I can understand why this would bother him. He just wants what is best for you.

very good point. I'm glad he cares enough to make an issue about it. however our relationship is now strained to the point where its weird sitting in the same room as him and he's not being very accepting.

Well you have to think to the future. Catholic women are the best out there - they're horney, they like to please their man, and in general they are HOT. So winging it for some high quality tail wouldn't be a bad course of action.

On the other hand, they won't have sex with you before marraige. And when they do, the only position they'll agree to do is missionary.

:laugh:

 

[Mo0o]

It's definitely a tough issue. To him, he honestly believes you are rejecting your savior and he wont be able to meet you in heaven etc etc. To you, its just you adopting a different world view from him, something akin to having a different political party. I think you should talk to him and tell him that even if you do go back to church, it'd be an empty action since in your heart you dont believe in it. Tell him you want to spend some time on your own to study religion.

 

[atybimf]

Originally posted by: Mo0o
It's definitely a tough issue. To him, he honestly believes you are rejecting your savior and he wont be able to meet you in heaven etc etc. To you, its just you adopting a different world view from him, something akin to having a different political party. I think you should talk to him and tell him that even if you do go back to church, it'd be an empty action since in your heart you dont believe in it. Tell him you want to spend some time on your own to study religion.

Good suggestion. I was thinking of doing something like this.

 

[Mucho]

Originally posted by: cherrytwist
Just tell him you're gay and he'll forget about this Catholic stuff.

Best one yet

 

[Rayden]

Originally posted by: ghostman
You should be proud that you have the ability to question your beliefs rather than blindly accept whatever is spoon-fed to you. Better than being a hypocrite, like so many "religious" people have turned out to be. I think the first response is as good as you're going to get in this thread (with doze's response being the worst).

Can you be "spoon-fed, blind, hypocrite" and not religious? Implied in these statements is an entrenched correlation between religion and being unable to think for yourself. How come no one ever blames non-religious people of not thinking for themselves? Why can't people grow up in a religious home, follow their parents' religion and think for themselves? If your religion is to mean anything to you, you have to question it at some point and decide if you really want to follow it or not. I think we can both agree that people who don't question their faith are doing something wrong. But can we agree that intelligent people who think for themselves can choose religion?

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Keep in mind once you leave the Church you can't come back. So I can understand why this would bother him. He just wants what is best for you.

What are you talking about?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: spidey07
Keep in mind once you leave the Church you can't come back. So I can understand why this would bother him. He just wants what is best for you.

What are you talking about?

I always thought catholics can't come back if they denounce their faith. There's a few other things you can do that you can't come back as well like divorce.

<---Catholic

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: spidey07
Keep in mind once you leave the Church you can't come back. So I can understand why this would bother him. He just wants what is best for you.

What are you talking about?

I always thought catholics can't come back if they denounce their faith. There's a few other things you can do that you can't come back as well like divorce.

<---Catholic

Who's going to know that he turned agnostic? Its not like he has to take a lie detector test every year.
Also, there are plenty of Catholics who have divorced, like my friend's parents.

 

[atybimf]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: spidey07
Keep in mind once you leave the Church you can't come back. So I can understand why this would bother him. He just wants what is best for you.

What are you talking about?

I always thought catholics can't come back if they denounce their faith. There's a few other things you can do that you can't come back as well like divorce.

<---Catholic

Who's going to know that he turned agnostic? Its not like he has to take a lie detector test every year.
Also, there are plenty of Catholics who have divorced, like my friend's parents.

not showing up to church after 15 years of going weekly would be noticeable.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: atybimf

Originally posted by: spidey07
Keep in mind once you leave the Church you can't come back. So I can understand why this would bother him. He just wants what is best for you.

very good point. I'm glad he cares enough to make an issue about it. however our relationship is now strained to the point where its weird sitting in the same room as him and he's not being very accepting.

Well you have to think to the future. Catholic women are the best out there - they're horney, they like to please their man, and in general they are HOT. So winging it for some high quality tail wouldn't be a bad course of action.

On the other hand, they won't have sex with you before marraige. And when they do, the only position they'll agree to do is missionary.

Lies on both counts.

Catholic schoolgirls FTW!

- M4H

 

[3NF]

www.rael.org

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Oceandevi
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

The problem with translations is that how the quote is interpreted is up to the point of view of the reader. For example, I could read that and take it to mean that it's perfectly ok for men to tell lies to women, but not to men. I could also interpret that to mean that women are not a subset of mankind.

Or does "lie" in this context mean "to lay down with"? Or, perhaps, "to have sex with"? In your opinion, it has a certain specific meaning, but how do you know that your opinion is correct? Did someone tell you?

Deuteronomy 25:11-12
When two men are in a fight and the wife of the one man, trying to rescue her husband, grabs the genitals of the man hitting him, you are to cut off her hand. Show no pity.

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: spidey07
Keep in mind once you leave the Church you can't come back. So I can understand why this would bother him. He just wants what is best for you.

What are you talking about?

I always thought catholics can't come back if they denounce their faith. There's a few other things you can do that you can't come back as well like divorce.

<---Catholic

Ok, first off that is not true. St. Paul killed many christians and is one of the greatest saints ever to live. If you post on this forum you should be able to do research. Only a few things that you believe in make you never able to come back to the Church.

Apostasy (canon 1364),
Heresy (canon 1364),
Schism (canon 1364),
Desecration of the Eucharist (canon 1367),
Physical violence against the Pope (canon 1370),
Attempted sacramental absolution of a partner in a sin against the sixth commandment of the Decalogue (canon 1378),
Ordination of a bishop without papal mandate (canon 1382),
Direct violation of the sacramental seal of confession by a confessor (canon 1388),
Procurement of a completed abortion (canon 1398), or
Being a conspiring or necessary accomplice in any of the above (canon 1329).


Second, I feel sorry for the 15 year old who is going this tragic time. I believe that God exist due to one simple fact and that fact alone. The Sun comes up everyday and goes down without ever failing or wavering. I look at the numerous animals, plants, humans which co-exist in such a order that without Divine Intervention it could not be done.

I am not trying to convince you to believe in God but at the age of 15 I highly doubt without proper study once can make the rash decision to believe in no God.

I will use Moore's reasoning

If a man did not believe in God or an afterlife of any kind he could never be trusted as he would not be logically driven to acknowledge any authority or principles outside himself.

First Way: The Argument From Motion
St. Thomas Aquinas, studying the works of the Greek philsopher Aristotle, concluded from common observation that an object that is in motion (e.g. the planets, a rolling stone) is put in motion by some other object or force. From this, Aquinas believes that ultimately there must have been an UNMOVED MOVER (GOD) who first put things in motion. Follow the agrument this way:
1) Nothing can move itself.
2) If every object in motion had a mover, then the first object in motion needed a mover.
3) This first mover is the Unmoved Mover, called God.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second Way: Causation Of Existence
This Way deals with the issue of existence. Aquinas concluded that common sense observation tells us that no object creates itself. In other words, some previous object had to create it. Aquinas believed that ultimately there must have been an UNCAUSED FIRST CAUSE (GOD) who began the chain of existence for all things. Follow the agrument this way:
1) There exists things that are caused (created) by other things.
2) Nothing can be the cause of itself (nothing can create itself.)
3) There can not be an endless string of objects causing other objects to exist.
4) Therefore, ther must be an uncaused first cause called God.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Third Way: Contingent and Neccessary Objects
This Way defines two types of objects in the universe: contingent beings and necessary beings. A contingent being is an object that can not exist without a necessary being causing its existence. Aquinas believed that the existence of contingent beings would ultimately neccesitate a being which must exist for all of the contingent beings to exist. This being, called a necessary being, is what we call God. Follow the argument this way:
1) Contingent beings are caused.
2) Not every being can be contingent.
3) There must exist a being which is necessary to cause contingent beings.
4) This necessary being is God.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fourth Way: The Agrument From Degrees And Perfection
St. Thomas formulated this Way from a very interesting observation about the qualities of things. For example one may say that of two marble scultures one is more beautiful than the other. So for these two objects, one has a greater degree of beauty than the next. This is referred to as degrees or gradation of a quality. From this fact Aquinas concluded that for any given quality (e.g. goodness, beauty, knowledge) there must be an perfect standard by which all such qualities are measured. These perfections are contained in God.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fifth Way: The Agrument From Intelligent Design
The final Way that St. Thomas Aquinas speaks of has to do with the observable universe and the order of nature. Aquinas states that common sense tells us that the universe works in such a way, that one can conclude that is was designed by an intelligent designer, God. In other words, all physical laws and the order of nature and life were designed and ordered by God, the intellgent designer.

 

[RiDE]

You should've lied.

 

[Zenmervolt]

The long and short of the present reality is that you aren't going to be able to meet your father halfway, but you still have no real choice but to live with him. I hate to advise this, but the easiest thing to do in this sort of scenario is simply to fake it as long as you have to live with him. Keep the site better hidden next time.

Keep looking for Truth on your own though.

(Before anyone asks, yes, I'm saying that he should deceive his parents. Believe it or not, but there really are some battles that aren't worth fighting.)

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
logic corrupts religious thought.

a good book is by the philosopher bertrand russel "why i am not a christian"
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/russell0.htm

Logic doesn't always kill religiosity. It does temper it, however.

As an aside, Russell is one of my favorite authors, he was very clearly a genius.

ZV <-- Christian.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Or does "lie" in this context mean "to lay down with"? Or, perhaps, "to have sex with"? In your opinion, it has a certain specific meaning, but how do you know that your opinion is correct? Did someone tell you?

It's quite easy to go back to the original Hebrew and see that the meaning is that of engaging in intercourse. This is a poor choice of example for a contextual issue.

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Keep in mind once you leave the Church you can't come back. So I can understand why this would bother him. He just wants what is best for you.

That's one of the better jokes that I've heard in a long time.

ZV

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: atybimf

Originally posted by: spidey07
Keep in mind once you leave the Church you can't come back. So I can understand why this would bother him. He just wants what is best for you.

very good point. I'm glad he cares enough to make an issue about it. however our relationship is now strained to the point where its weird sitting in the same room as him and he's not being very accepting.

I also find it funny you read the internet to make your decision. If you really wanted to learn and make a formal decision then DO IT. Quit reading the internet, get off your computer and get the library where you can find all the books written from every philospher in the world. You can read how communism was founded, you can read how the bible was placed together, you can read how some people think the order of man is through evolution. You can read counter arguments etc...

For the love of God please get off the net to make a decision.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Keep in mind once you leave the Church you can't come back. So I can understand why this would bother him. He just wants what is best for you.

htf said that you cant come back to church? rofls.

 

[atybimf]

Originally posted by: Zstream
Second, I feel sorry for the 15 year old who is going this tragic time. I believe that God exist due to one simple fact and that fact alone. The Sun comes up everyday and goes down without ever failing or wavering. I look at the numerous animals, plants, humans which co-exist in such a order that without Divine Intervention it could not be done.

I am not trying to convince you to believe in God but at the age of 15 I highly doubt without proper study once can make the rash decision to believe in no God.

I will use Moore's reasoning
....blah blah...

I'm not discounting the possibility that there is a God. I consider myself agnostic at this point because right now I feel there is no way of knowing.