My day with google cardboard..ish..

[JeffMD]

so after work I picked up the new google cardboard based viewmaster viewer. I wanted to play with all the cool google vr apps but wanted something a bit more solid then all the card board options out there.

With It I was using my original LG flex. Thankfully out of the box it just barely fits. I have no extra room and it needs some force to close. thankfully because it is a flex, I don't need to worry about breaking it. Now I knew going into this, 720p screens are not so hot for VR goggles, however I didn't mind starting out just experiencing the 3d effects now and worry about clarity later when I get my next phone. So after playing with many of the apps and viewing a number of 3d and 360 youtube videos, I came away with one thought.

Cardboard is still a much work in progress and despite standards being in place, apps do not follow them. I couldn't get %50 of the programs to work right. Despite the fact that the google cardboard app does have the view master settings in its internal library (there is a bar code to scan) thus serving up all the settings for the viewer on a silver platter, I found a number of apps simply wouldn't or couldn't set the images apart the correct distance causing double vision. Also a number of the "top" apps like village and tuscany dive did not even support fisheye. What the hell kind of vr app does not properly distort the video for every vr goggle out there? And how is it they got high ratings when you consider it does not work in OR and GC because it lacks fisheye?

Still there were a few really good gems out there. VR Cosmic roller coaster was great, and the youtube 360 movies were awesome except for the problem of 720p devices like mine being limited to the 720p video stream. This would be fine if I was viewing a full screen video, but when the video is wrapped 360 degrees the 720p stream looks like crap. This is google just being retarded. I would try and request an explanation and maybe a fix but they don't believe in proper forums.

Finally and probably the most confusing, viewing 3d youtube movies. Despite IMO being one of the best devices to finally be able to view 3d movies in the way they were intended (no polarizing tricks or flickering 3d glasses) there is NO WAY TO VIEW 3D YOUTUBE MOVIES ON GOOGLE CARDBOARD. I kid you not, googles app does not support it in any way. And I haven't found any working apps on the google store that do it either.

I was able to download some of the 3d streams, and then used the theater app to play it back and THAT worked pretty well, but that is the worst way to do it. So with my experience today, google cardboard, only try it if you are really board, and I would pass on any device 720p or less. If only because google simply won't give you access to the higher resolution streams that are a must.

As for the view master viewer, I give it a thumbs up. The spring loaded claw it uses to hold the phone in is decently constructed, and it works for the most part. There are some issues, the optics are not adjustable in any way, and there is no holes for power or headphone cables. The flex has a monster battery and I had bluetooth headphones so this wasn't much of an issue, but that is just me.

On the other hand I can't tell you about the viewmaster software, for some reason it would not recognize the demo disk. I didn't buy it for the viewmaster software but I'm a little sad it didn't work out of the box.

 

[sweenish]

How do you manage to acknowledge your resolution being low and blame Google for it in the same breath?

3D also requires a refresh rate of 120 Hz, something no phone does.

 

[JeffMD]

sweenish ...... do you even know what you are talking about? I thought I was pretty clear about the resolution issue. on 360 videos.. stream resolution != actual resolution.

And I have no what that last part was about.

 

[sweenish]

[...] and the youtube 360 movies were awesome except for the problem of 720p devices like mine being limited to the 720p video stream. This would be fine if I was viewing a full screen video, but when the video is wrapped 360 degrees the 720p stream looks like crap. This is google just being retarded.

My first part was aimed at this. Is is a 720p stream or not? Is it because of your phone or Google? Make up your mind.

Finally and probably the most confusing, viewing 3d youtube movies. Despite IMO being one of the best devices to finally be able to view 3d movies in the way they were intended (no polarizing tricks or flickering 3d glasses) there is NO WAY TO VIEW 3D YOUTUBE MOVIES ON GOOGLE CARDBOARD. I kid you not, googles app does not support it in any way. And I haven't found any working apps on the google store that do it either.

My second part is aimed at this. It's also pretty self-explanatory. That's nice that you've found a workaround, but 3D as it's implemented today requires a 120 Hz refresh rate. Those videos are made to work on the majority of current 3D-capable hardware (which is 120 Hz), which Cardboard is not, not by a longshot.

So, keep getting defensive. I don't mind.

 

[JeffMD]

My first part was aimed at this. Is is a 720p stream or not? Is it because of your phone or Google? Make up your mind.


My second part is aimed at this. It's also pretty self-explanatory. That's nice that you've found a workaround, but 3D as it's implemented today requires a 120 Hz refresh rate. Those videos are made to work on the majority of current 3D-capable hardware (which is 120 Hz), which Cardboard is not, not by a longshot.

So, keep getting defensive. I don't mind.

The data stream is 720p, it needs access to at least the 1080p stream. On 360 videos this should NOT be locked down because device resolution is irrelevant.

Your second part, I am not sure where you think 3d video must have something to do with high refresh rates. Were not using shutter glasses.

 

[lopri]

Did you experience eye strain or headache at all? Is the thing usable for those who wear glasses?

 

[Oyeve]

You will never see HD of any sort on a VR headset be it cardboard or a Gear VR. My Note 4 is true HD and on my Gear VR your eyes are so close to the screen that it will never ever look like HD.

 

[sweenish]

The data stream is 720p, it needs access to at least the 1080p stream. On 360 videos this should NOT be locked down because device resolution is irrelevant.

How would a 1080p stream benefit you on your 720p screen? You would have to look further than straight up to see straight up. Those extra pixels have to either be seen or scaled out, which leaves you with a 720p screen that needs extra (immersion breaking) panning, or just a 720p picture.

You are beholden to your phone's resolution, period.

Your second part, I am not sure where you think 3d video must have something to do with high refresh rates. Were not using shutter glasses.

So, I explained this. CURRENT IMPLEMENTATION of 3D that you see in your monitors, TV's etc. use 120 Hz. YouTube caters to these implementations. Cardboard does not. So, that's why it's not working. Also, "We're."

Sure, they could support all 200 people that would care, but I imagine this going the way of Windows Phone Support. Not enough people for them to care. And yes, I know it's their own product.

 

[JeffMD]

Sweenish... wha..I...but...no.. your wrong in all conceivable ways and you make my brain hurt. -_-

 

[JeffMD]

You will never see HD of any sort on a VR headset be it cardboard or a Gear VR. My Note 4 is true HD and on my Gear VR your eyes are so close to the screen that it will never ever look like HD.

360 degree videos and the stream that they use have absolutely nothing to do with device resolution. How many times do I need to say it? Think anamorphic video.

 

[JeffMD]

Did you experience eye strain or headache at all? Is the thing usable for those who wear glasses?

When I was watching an app that worked well, I didn't have to many strain issues. One thing to note, the flex POLED screen has a grain and that was also fairly apparent, this may have helped give me something to focus on too. The viewmaster is glasses friendly except for rectangular glasses which happen to be what I have. Mine are slightly to big so while I can squeeze them into the rubber eyepiece, it is impossible to remove the viewmaster without taking my glasses with it. -_-

btw I finally got the demo disc to work, it looks like it only works on one or maybe two of the main apps, it just didn't work on the first one I downloaded. Not really impressed, it seems to be a 3d rendered environment and when you look at one of the 1 (maybe more in the full reels) animals in the environment you get a fact tag and a streamed video. Fine for a 7 year old, but google cardboard stuff is more impressive.

 

[Oyeve]

360 degree videos and the stream that they use have absolutely nothing to do with device resolution. How many times do I need to say it? Think anamorphic video.

I said it would never look like HD, not that it wasn't. In fact, I never mentioned resolution at all. Get the wedgie out yer butt.

 

[JeffMD]

HD is not one but two specific resolutions. If you weren't referring to those then I am not sure what you were referring to. If it was my comment about using a 720p display, hd or not stepping up to a 4k display would still yield a worlds difference in this case.

 

[sweenish]

Sweenish... wha..I...but...no.. your wrong in all conceivable ways and you make my brain hurt. -_-

So tell me how I'm wrong. Anyone can just say that someone is wrong. But if you don't prove it, I'm not going to believe you.

 

[kevinsbane]

So tell me how I'm wrong. Anyone can just say that someone is wrong. But if you don't prove it, I'm not going to believe you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld1Z-MQqKi0

Side-by-side 3D.

 

[Artdeco]

I'm have a note 4 and gear VR, it's immersive and cool, but the resolution is terrible, lots of screen door effect, it's just a tech limitation, cool to play with though

 

[Oyeve]

I'm have a note 4 and gear VR, it's immersive and cool, but the resolution is terrible, lots of screen door effect, it's just a tech limitation, cool to play with though

Same here. Its because the screen is literally inches from your eyes and magnified, so you see the pixels. There is no screen tech remotely close to being pixel free that close up.

 

[JeffMD]

Samsungs gear is kind of the best we have so far outside of the OR dev kits. Now the note 4, is that using the unique color dot pattern? I bet that gets kinda annoying too cause the "effective" resolution ends up less then 4k. I think I would really want to try it out using the Lg g4.

Not in a rush though, content is still currently pretty slim and none. I was thinking there was more out there since it seemed like alot of people jumped onto the sdk when it first came out a year ago.

 

[Oyeve]

Samsungs gear is kind of the best we have so far outside of the OR dev kits. Now the note 4, is that using the unique color dot pattern? I bet that gets kinda annoying too cause the "effective" resolution ends up less then 4k. I think I would really want to try it out using the Lg g4.

Not in a rush though, content is still currently pretty slim and none. I was thinking there was more out there since it seemed like alot of people jumped onto the sdk when it first came out a year ago.

The G4 will yield the same results. There is just no screen tech today that you will not see patterns. 4k, 5k anything that close to your eyes will yield pixels (for want of a better term) Maybe when we have something like full 10K. But try running a native 10k video that wont choke. The tech is just not there, if it ever will be. And by the time it is we will probably be Johnny Mnemonic and jack directly into our brain.

 

[JeffMD]

Oyeve, I guess maybe you will find the tech too immature until you can AA the hell out of it, I am generally fine with some pixaly ness. However.. that does not mean I am satisfied playing my games at 1280x720 either. Same thing here, I find 720p leaves just a few too little pixels per eye to play with. There are a lot of pixels in between "720p" and "sooooooo many pixels you can't see pixels".

 

[sweenish]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld1Z-MQqKi0

Side-by-side 3D.

And it's a stuttery mess.

It's also only half of my post that needs disproving.

 

[JeffMD]

And it's a stuttery mess.

Which has everything to do with the horrific encode job by the author, and absolutely nothing to do with the technology of sbs 3d.

For instance, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9d1P1iA0is

and while 2d movies, the stream you download is the stream you see (and thus, aside from some issues with higher bitrates, streaming higher resolutions then what you can display is pointless), in 360 degree movies you are looking at a 3d sphere that has the video stream pasted onto it. So the stream has all possible angles (were you to look at it, it would look distorted.

For instance, in one 360 movie, this is what is actually sent to the player.



Doesn't look anything like what you actually SEE.. and that is because what you see is simply a part of this video with a little bit of image transformation. Thus in this situation it is IDEAL that you can stream as high as the device can decode, cause what you are going to be looking at is only a small section of this image.

 

[sweenish]

Which has everything to do with the horrific encode job by the author, and absolutely nothing to do with the technology of sbs 3d.

For instance, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9d1P1iA0is

and while 2d movies, the stream you download is the stream you see (and thus, aside from some issues with higher bitrates, streaming higher resolutions then what you can display is pointless), in 360 degree movies you are looking at a 3d sphere that has the video stream pasted onto it. So the stream has all possible angles (were you to look at it, it would look distorted.

For instance, in one 360 movie, this is what is actually sent to the player.



Doesn't look anything like what you actually SEE.. and that is because what you see is simply a part of this video with a little bit of image transformation. Thus in this situation it is IDEAL that you can stream as high as the device can decode, cause what you are going to be looking at is only a small section of this image.

I can give up the side-by-side 3D if that first example was a bad encode.

I'm still not sold that a 360 degree video streaming at 1080p is going to be any better on a 720p screen, though. I know how they work. To get the higher quality means you need more pixels, which either breaks head turn scaling, zooms you in too far, or has to be scaled to your device's resolution. Every single situation makes the 1080p stream pointless.

 

[JeffMD]

No, you clearly have no idea how it works.

 

[sweenish]

Then you must have done a piss-poor job explaining it, because nothing you posted was new information to me.

A higher quality (higher resolution) stream still has to track according to motion, does it not? That tracking is pretty important in something like cardboard, is it not?

If I have a 720p phone, and watch a 720p stream, and turn 180 degrees, it tracks great.

Now give that phone a higher resolution stream. Tell me how it accurately tracks while showing you the same picture. How am I not forced to turn 220 degrees just to see what's supposed to be behind me?