My dogs killed my neighbor's cat

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Boxxcar
I am not aware of too many domesticated mice and birds - they are pretty much wild and fair game.

You've got to be kidding me. Have you ever heard of parrots? cockatiels? peacocks?

And you're not aware of domesticated mice?

Dude thats not the same as a cat you can't form any bond with those creatures. Their dumb as nails.

Its like saying a monkey is the same as a dog.

 

[Tiamat]

you win, she loses. Update us with your counter-suit win.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Chiropteran

Yet it is the decision of a human to keep such deadly animals in the backyard, and apparently also his decision to do so without an effective fence. Honestly makes me wonder how the cat wandered in but wasn't able to get back out in time to save itself, cats move pretty damn fast when they are frightened.

"Such deadly animals"? I bet a prize bird owner would say the same thing if their bird flew into a yard with a cat, and the cat killed the bird. Sorry, bud, but that's what cats do.

My understanding is that *most* of the responses here fall into this catagory of logic:

the cat was tresspassing, so it's okay that the dogs killed it

No, it doesn't work like that, two wrong don't make a right, not in our society.

This is completely incorrect. In our society, often two wrongs DO make a right. It's illegal to gun someone down, but if that someone broke into your house and threatened to kill you, you can legally gun them down. You still killed a man, but under the law it was considered justified.

Sure, the cat should not be in the guy's yard, that doesn't make it okay for him to have the cat killed. The cat may well have had a nametag before the dogs mauled it to death, a collar could have easily been ripped off. Lots of variables that aren't clear when we only get one side of the story.

Nobody "had" the cat killed. The cat just got killed. I don't know why you'd even bring up the possibility of the cat having a nametag- it's not like the dogs were going to stop and read it.

The thing you don't seem to understand is that there's a natural order to things, and your emotions have nothing at all to do with it. I'm sure you love your cat, but your cat is dogfood to a dog.

Imagine if a guy owned a prized cricket that makes good music. To him it's worth a lot, but to another animal it's just prey. So another person's pet hamster gets loose and eats the prize cricket. The cricket owner is upset and doesn't know why the hamster would kill his pet, but the hamster owners says that's just what hamsters do. Then someone's young pet owl kills the hamster. The hamster owner is upset, but the owl owner says that's just what owls do. Then someone's pet cat kills the pet owl. The owl owner is upset, but the cat owner says, "sorry, he was just acting out of instinct". Then the cat ventures into someone's yard and gets torn apart by dogs. Suddenly, the idiotic cat owner thinks that the food chain should stop with his cat. But in reality, that's just what dogs do.

It's called the food chain, deal with it. (I'm going to go downstairs and eat some chicken)

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Tiamat
you win, she loses. Update us with your counter-suit win.

Probably wont be one

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Dude thats not the same as a cat you can't form any bond with those creatures. Their dumb as nails.

Its like saying a monkey is the same as a dog.

I remember I went to a pet store for a school trip once and there was a gray parrot. The thing was amazingly smart. It knew how to say a bunch of words and it was extremely curious. It would sit there on the clerk's desk and take out his pens and scribble on a pad of paper with them. They said it would live to be about 60.

I'm willing to bet that the parrot is quite a bit smarter than a cat.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: Unheard

Originally posted by: Schfifty Five
So far I've seen 3 idiots in this thread: Proletariat , Boxxcar, Chiropteran.

They make illogical claims and even when presented with clear, logical, opinions and facts from many others here, they continue to show their idiocy or disappear.

fixed.

I don't really feel the need to defend myself online.

As I said I think most of you are idiots. And you think I'm an idiot.

Good.

We just don't think your an idiot.

 

[Tsaico]

Holy smokes! I never anticipated anything like this... I am not even sure where to start. But first let me clear some stuff up...

1. Ok, I will admit the opening lines are a little harsh, but technically they did not KILL the cat. The had a direct hand in its eventual demise, but "the cat wasn't torn to shreds". I didn't see what started the fight or even know how long it really was going on for. I just let them out while I ate dinner and then I heard the comotion. After I called them back into the house (they are normally indoor animals, not locked or chained in the yard), I had found the cat, still alive and breathing heavily, looking like a mess. It was meowing so I had figured that I should bring it to the Vet. I don't know how bad or how long she would have lasted, but it was the Vet that said she should be put down. He asked me if I knew the owner, I said no. I will check the yard area for tags, but I am sure they are not there. But I do suppose it is possible for a collar to come off. I didn't ask if there was anything else he could do for her. He just said I could either put her down, or put her back in teh box and take her home. I don't know about you, but I wasn't going to pay $1,000 to have surgery for an animal I didn't plan on keeping. (and yes, it would have cost that much, based off of when my folks had a Pomeranian that got attacked by coyotes, emergency room costs are not cheap, even if it is for an animal.)

2. My two are medium/large dogs, the smaller ones wighs in at about 50 pounds and the larger ones weighs in at about 65lbs. Both of them are mutts that I had found in the dumpster about 6 yrs ago. The vet called them Lab/Sheperds, but I am sure there are more lines than that.

3. They do not often attack animals. Usually they give chase, but when it gets to the fence, the game is over. (I have problems with racoons and possums, as both are often in my yard, though this is my first real fight). Since both Racoons and possums are pretty slow, they usually just follow at a slow pace, barking until the racoon swipes at them or climbs up the fence, or when the possum passes out, upon which I get a shovel and scoop him up and put it on this ledge that he can just get up and leave. We go to the dog park and they have no issues without leash in fenced area. It doesn't mean much other than their temperment is pretty mild.

4. The woman is not my next door neighbor, she actually lives about six houses up, across the street.

5. I am not looking for sympathy. I am sharing a story with a community that I often read. I do not recall ever saying anything that would garner "I feel bad for you dude" My only comment is people who are trying to abuse a system for this kind of profit is horrible.

6. I am not sure if I have effective fence or not, it is a regular 6ft wooden fence. Fence enough for dogs not to get out and people to get in.

7. I was part of a fraternity in college and had lots of people over without a single issue. I even had an ATOT meet here a few years back that we had a bunch of people from Anandtech here for food before we went off to paintball. So those guys can vouch these are far from guard dogs. At this point, it is only safe to say they do not like Himalayan Tabbys, possums and racoons.

8. I don't know if the cat was really feral or not, that is just what the Vet listed on the papers. It seemed pretty nice, didn't attack me when I picked it up to take to the vet, nor did she complain when he handled her while inspecting. I don't know anything about cats, so I can't really say.

9. All those analogies with children are horrible. To me there is a big difference with a cat and dog who don't know any better and a kid and an adult who should. For me, a guard dog is like a car alarm, it won't do anything to stop anyone, just make enough noise that the homeowner can investigate himself.

10. They are not professionally trained. They only know basic commands like sit, lay down, and come. I never really had any other issue or need than these. I think it is interesting that someone is saying that the dogs should be trained, but didn't think the cat should have been trained too. All pets require some training, dogs or cats. Well maybe not fish or auqarium animals.

11. My responsiblity ended with the cat's care after it's fight with my dogs. I did not seek it out, I did not let my animals run loose in other people's yard, I did not try to hide what happened, I did not leave an animal I did not know die alone. I will admit, that I did not try to find the owner either, but with what I thought was a stray, who knows where it would have come from? I do not think it is out of the question to expect me to pay the vet bills to some extent. I would understand wichever way the argument was won. But to say that my dogs are horrible creatures and I am a poor owner and neighbor is rediculous. They came when I told them to come, leaving the cat alone at that point.

12. When it really comes down to it, what I want from the neighbor isn't to start thinking her cats do not have sentimental value, or that my dogs are perfect. She needs to admit that by not watching her own pets, she needs to accept some of the responsibility. I do feel bad that my two would beat up another animal, but that doesn't change the fact that it is not JUST the dogs' faults. I am sure there are plenty of things they are at fault for, but I do NOT think being a terrifying beast is one of them.

13. Normally when my neighbors are knoing on my door it is so their kids can play with my dogs. The two right next to me don't want to take care of any dogs, so when the kids complain about wanting one, they just come over here and play with mine isntead. I don't know if they need more training. Probably. But the ones that count to me are sit, come back, and quiet, I don't know if you need to train a dog to not bite, or if you just don't train them TO bite is enough.

14. I don't particulary like cats. But I am far from wanting the death of any that I see.

15. It is correct. I am not sure that the lady is "crazy". All I know is that when I told her the cat came into my back yard, it got into a fight with my two dogs. I took it to the vet, the vet said put it down or take it home, I put it down. Gave thet vet number in case she wanted to speak with him about it. I would describe her as crazy, because if I found out someone hit my dog with a while it was roaming, I would first be sad and see if I could see my dog. Or find out where it happened. Her first reaction was to tell me how expensive it was.

16. I will not sue over this issue, counter or otherwise. It is $200. Come on now.

 

[DrPizza]

Just a couple of comments... On several occasions I've had cats show up in my fenced backyard... I have 3 dogs. Big dogs. Cats apparently are pretty stupid when it comes to sneaking into yards. For what it's worth, there have been some pretty amusing shows. One cat held it's ground to my smaller dog; completely oblivious to the 85 pound dog closing in on it from the side at about 25mph. My dogs never bit any of the cats; but I did let my dogs torment them enough so that they wouldn't return to my yard. In essence, I trained my dogs to chase cats in order to train cats to stay away from my yard. Two of my dogs would stop chasing upon my command... the 3rd still hasn't learned that though, thus he continues to be confined to the house and a fenced in area, except while on a leash with me. How's that for the "all animals should be trained" camp? (fwiw, I have a female cat and the male cats would spray all over around our house. ) Our cat generally prefers to stay indoors, but if she wants to wander around outside, I have no problem letting her go out and wandering where she wants. Hopefully she hones her killer instinct and kills a few field mice.

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Chiropteran


What animal behaviour? The cat's owner and the child's parents are BOTH HUMANS. Both of them them allowed thier pet/child to enter the "bad" backyard. It's human behavior in both cases, why can't they be compared?

Because according to the law, kids are considered people, while pets are considered property.

Ding ding we have a winner. Thats the statement I have eben waiting for all thread. If someone hits a basball into your back yard and you can't find it for them should you have to pay for it. A pet is a creature we on a singular level grow attachments to, but in the end they are many steps down from humans and are in the end nothing but a comodity. You grow attached to your Cat, I get attached to my Xbox.

As for the roaming that keeps getting brought up. The owner has to think about the well being of a cat and not the sanity. My Gekko Godzilla, I have had him for 7 years now (long ass time) I won't let him wander outside his cage even though I know he would love to wander. Why because anything can kill him even my foot by accident. Just because a cat likes to wander doesn't mean he should, and this is a perfect example of one of the many dangers that a present in a situation with a wandering cat.

 

[lrad50]

I feel for both of you.

It's not your fault, it's the dog's instincts.

But then again, she is out a cat.

Your dogs do sound rather vicious though. What breed are they?

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: lrad50

Your dogs do sound rather vicious though. What breed are they?

OK, the only thing we know about these dogs is that they attacked a cat. Period. It says so right in the OP, "they were attacking something in the corner". Everything beyond that is pure conjecture from the hundreds of people on this forum who apparently have Internet Sensory Perception. What exactly makes them "vicious"?

OP, you're probably the sanest person in this thread, judging by your last post. I'd be happy to have you as my neighbor; I don't know what that woman's problem is.

 

[pkme2]

Since this thread is continuing, I need to add my 2 cents.

I've been involved in a law suit as a witness to a dog barking lawsuit.
The owners countersued the neighbor who brought the original suit. Quess what, the dog's owners won. The person who's suing needs a lot of documented proof to win. The plaintiff has to prove all kinds of sh*t to convince the judge. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Don't worry, I doubt she has verification to prove the cat is worth $2000. She's running a scam and her relative has committed a crime impersonating an officer of the court. Go to court and document all your expenses and get reinbursed. You're can verify this if you have a neighborhood/TV lawyer talk line.

 

[bluemax]

The average lifespan of an INDOOR cat is ~15 years.
The average lifespan of an OUTDOOR cat is less than 3.

Still think it's cruel to "confine" them rather than let them wander?

 

[SparkyJJO]

ppl can be so dumb

 

[Ranger X]

My uncle has cats that are worth $2000 or whatever that the woman had claimed. He would NEVER allow them to roam freely outside. One time my parents came over and my uncle freaked because he thought my parents left the front door open. If that woman lets her expensive cats roam outside, she is nothing but a liar. I'm glad that a worthless excuse for a human being isn't going to scam you out of any money. Personally, I wouldn't even bother replacing the cat. You should be the one pissed here, not her.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: UnheardThere is a reason neighborhood cats don't come into my yard, and it has to do with my 85lbs Black & Tan Treeing Coonhound.

Interesting. Cats don't come into my yard because I'll kick them in the taint.

But either way works.

Originally posted by: Boxxcar
They're the ones who buy those extending dog leashes that allow the dog to run 20 feet into everybody's front yard as they are "walking their dog" They're the one's who have no control over their animal.

You can't possibly be serious. You think leashed dogs are the ones "out of control"? Granted ANY animal outside can be a nuisance to some extent, but if I say "Bob, get your fscking dog out of my yard!", he can yank it back with his leash. If I say "Mary, get your fscking cat out of my yard!", she'll be like "wtf where is it and why do I have to?".

Big difference. Yes, a dog on a 20ft. leash can be a pain in the ass (and even a threat), but a) the owner still has control (or a degree of control), and b) this thread isn't about dogs who are roaming free, it's about cats.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Chiropteran

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Chiropteran
Child wanders into the street and gets hit by a car: we need stricter speed limits and speed bumps and speeders should get mandatory prison time and liscense taken away.

Cat wanders into neighbors yard and gets eaten by a dog: tough luck, dumb cat got what it deserved.

Lamest analogy of the day.

Not even remotely parallel... or true, for that matter.

Agreed. Child wanders into the street and gets hit by a car = parent was irresponsible for letting the child wander into the street.

That might be your opinion, but legally the driver of the car is facing vehicular homocide charges.

How about another example.

Neighbor's kid is playing ball, ball goes over the fence into your back yard. The kid comes over to get the ball and you shoot him.

Hey, it's your backyard! The kids parents should have kept him inside if they didn't want him to die, right?

FFS man we're not even talking about kids. I'm not even going to get into that discussion because the laws that enforce animal control aren't even remotely related to kids. They're written for ANIMALS, not children.

Quit trying to sensationalize this garbage with teh children.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Unheard

Originally posted by: Schfifty Five
So far I've seen 3 idiots in this thread: Proletariat , Boxxcar, Chiropteran.

They make illogical claims and even when presented with clear, logical, opinions and facts from many others here, they continue to show their idiocy or disappear.

fixed.

QFT

 

[otispunkmeyer]

well wether the cat is a pure breed or not.....no papers saying she owns the said cat = no money for her. stupid wench.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
well wether the cat is a pure breed or not.....no papers saying she owns the said cat = no money for her. stupid wench.

Or:

Cat running loose from house six doors down across the street after it had previously been picked up by animal control and this time decided to hop a fence into a yard containing two dogs = no money for her.

Stupid wench AND stupid cat.

 

[DPmaster]

Originally posted by: Boxxcar

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: Boxxcar

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: Boxxcar
My immediate first thought and original reply to this thread was, oh well, the cat strayed into the neighbor?s yard and the dogs killed it. The fact that the woman is a sleezebag and is trying it on by claiming loss of income, law suit, etc, etc, is BS. However, after discussing this with the wife yesterday, she had an entirely different view and I have to be honest, she had a rather good point. She's not siding with the woman, just the whole situation.

What kind of dog(s) would actually attack and rip to shreds a cat? I'm not talking about working dogs that guard a warehouse or junkyard and are trained to protect commercial property, but the type you find in your everyday friendly neighborhood are not security dogs trained to kill. I do not know of any domesticated dog that would do that unless it was a vicious animal in the first place and then I would start to wonder how long it would be before the dogs attacked a child or an adult.

We have a dog and a cat and they get along together great.

Cats roam - its their nature. Unless you want to keep a cat indoors 24/7, which I think is cruel, they are going to roam the neighborhood. There are many things people can do to try and prevent cats from coming into their yards and soiling the flowerbed, but killing them is not one of them.

Dogs romp around in the backyard, playing with dog toys and bark - it's their nature. A DOMESTICATED DOG DOES NOT ATTACK OTHER ANIMALS AND KILL SIMPLY BECAUSE ITS A DOG. THERE?S SOMETHING WRONG WITH IT IF IT DOES!

I guess I haven?t read the entire thread, but what kind of dogs were these that killed the cat?

There is no right or wrong solution to this situation. The lady is a sleezebag, but the OP seeking sympathy from ATOT is also wrong. He needs to do something with his dogs, like train them!

You are missing something ENTIRELY. Cats and dogs by nature don't get along. ALL DOGS have prey drive. Dogs are domesticated but that doesn't mean they aren't animals. I have cats so my dogs are cool with them.

Dogs that are not raised with or around cats are going to go after cats just like they will go after squirrels and rabbits.. Simple as that. It isn't an owners responsibility to socialize a dog with cats.

Entirely? I don't think so. I disagree that all dogs have "prey drive." Of course there are 100's of breeds and I am not claiming to be familiar with all of them. At least I have never come across one with the seek and destroy attitude. You read about them in the news, but then they are usually associated with mauling someone or something. Hence this topic. I've seen dogs bark a lot at cats, rabbits, or squirrels, but have never witnessed any mauling due to its instinct to kill. If a dog has this type of temperment that it must kill every little animal it can get its teeth around, then that dog is simply not safe to have around. That is just plain and simple lack of training and the owner is to blame for that. I guess the saying that the dogs bark is bigger than the bite, because most dogs will only just bark, bark, bark, but to actually kill is not right, at least not for a domesticated animal.

I don't mean to be a dick but there is no other way.

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/understand...-predatory-behavior-in-dogs/page1.aspx

ANY WORKING/HUNTING/ACTIVE dog has prey drive. A dachshund that is not raised with cats will absolutely destroy a cat if they can catch it. Fact of life. Dogs are prey animals and were domesticated to serve a purpose. To serve humans and do what a job we want them to do.

If you let a dog know that cats are not prey then it isn't a problem but the fact is a lot of dog people don't have cats. They have no responsibility to socialize their dogs with cats.

I don't think you're being a dick. You are proving your point. Well done..

I have no written proof, just my experience with both dogs and cats and the fact I've never witnessed a dog attack and kill anything. All of my dogs have been trained to the point that they will simply ignore a cat even if it walks right in front of them. At the end of the day, its the breed of dog and the trainer.

That's the issue right there. Your dogs' natural behavior has been altered with the training. If your dogs didn't have that training and a cat got into your backyard, you would be the OP right now.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: UnheardThere is a reason neighborhood cats don't come into my yard, and it has to do with my 85lbs Black & Tan Treeing Coonhound.

Interesting. Cats don't come into my yard because I'll kick them in the taint.

But either way works.

Originally posted by: Boxxcar
They're the ones who buy those extending dog leashes that allow the dog to run 20 feet into everybody's front yard as they are "walking their dog" They're the one's who have no control over their animal.

You can't possibly be serious. You think leashed dogs are the ones "out of control"? Granted ANY animal outside can be a nuisance to some extent, but if I say "Bob, get your fscking dog out of my yard!", he can yank it back with his leash. If I say "Mary, get your fscking cat out of my yard!", she'll be like "wtf where is it and why do I have to?".

Big difference. Yes, a dog on a 20ft. leash can be a pain in the ass (and even a threat), but a) the owner still has control (or a degree of control), and b) this thread isn't about dogs who are roaming free, it's about cats.

If we are talking about free roaming or a 20' zip leash then I will take the leash but honestly those things are dangerous if you have any dog of formidable size.

People in general get those leashes so they don't have to pay attention to their dog on the walk.

Those leashes offer very little control if your dog takes off running. You can either press the button to stop the leash and get your arm ripped out or you can wait til the end of the leash reaches and get your arm ripped out.

With any normal leash you can slow the dog down.

I have seen way too many bad things happen with those types of leashes. I guess I might be old school but when I walk my dogs, they are RIGHT beside me the entire time unless I give them permission to sniff around or get off the path.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Tsaico
My lawyer friend said it sounds like they just want anything at this point. I told her that replacing a stray cat with a neutered one from the pound would be fine. She can bill me for the adoption costs, which in riverside are the registration, the neutering or spaying, and a "filing fee", and it comes out to about 80 bucks. If Cat Lady wants anything else, tough, that is all that is on the table. My friend thinks I shouldn't even have to do that, but I am hoping that this will smooth things over with someone I never had any issues with before. I don't accept any guilt that isn't mine, and I don't give into some silly arguments, and a cat gets to have a home that would otherwise be euthanized.

You're too nice...if I were you, being threatened with a lawsuit would have used up all my goodwill towards the neighbor in question. I wouldn't play the escalation game, but I wouldn't be helping them out either.

Still, while I think your goodwill is misplaced, I commend you for having so much of it:thumbsup:

 

[mackaikai]

any update?

 

[SVT Cobra]

Thanks again for the updates.