My eBay/PayPal "scammed" story...

[Wonderful Pork]

Backstory:

I sell refurbished iPhones through my website and through eBay (yeah, eBay sucks but it's all about the exposure.)

Back in September I sold 4 refurbished iPhone 4 models white in color to a guy in Florida for $1600. He gets them in, inquires about purchasing more of them, and all seems hunky-dorey. The next day out of the blue, he messages me to tell me that all the iPhones I sent him were fake:

Sucks this is happening to you - however I am kind of confused. It looks like you did replace the front and back plates and perhaps the antenna band with non-OEM parts. This this case the parts were white (which would look like an OEM phone) and in the link you provided they are pink.

I'd honestly be confused too since Apple would not offer any warranty service on phones modified like this and would return them to you (but would not send a phone book).

Apologies if I got something wrong, but I can kind of see his POV - again other than shipping you a phone book back which was a scam 10000%.

 

[purbeast0]

Actually, it could. Report the IMEIs and then purchase the phones from him if he has them at his store - and since you can't activate them, do a chargeback on him.

this would means he breaks even but has his phones back. he would still be out the $1600 the guy paid him.

 

[Paulson]

The phones I sold him were Seller Refurbished... the listing stated that the fronts, backs, and the midframe were replaced.

Yes, aftermarket parts were used to make the external look like new, but the logic board (an OEM iPhone board) was still real. You can dispute the phone I'm selling, but you can't say it's fake then never return it.

I also offer a 1 year warranty on the product included through my site. If customers have issues they can send it back and I cover their shipping expenses and express mail it back to them. Might suck that you can't swap it out same day, but for what you're paying for I think it's a good deal.

Virgin Mobile and (now Straight Talk) want in excess of $400 for an 8GB iPhone 4 that you can only use on their networks... the ones I sell are unlocked and can be used anywhere in the world.

As for you all suggesting it I was able to get the IMEI number from the serial numbers and have punched them in as stolen... we'll see what happens.

I also submitted my story to the Internet Crime Center which contacts the FBI and whatnot.

 

[sourceninja]

You generally cannot have legal representation in small claims...

It must vary from state to state. In my state you are not required legal representation, but you are not prohibited from being represented by one. A few quick checks of some other states also allow you to have legal representation.

So far, I've checked 4 states and they all allow lawyers.

 

[xanis]

As for you all suggesting it I was able to get the IMEI number from the serial numbers and have punched them in as stolen... we'll see what happens.

I also submitted my story to the Internet Crime Center which contacts the FBI and whatnot.

Good start. :thumbsup:

I'd also take some screenshots and get some printouts from his website showing that he's selling some iPhones. Combine that with the rest of your evidence (YouTube video of you getting the phone book, your emails, etc.) and file a case against him in small claims court. I know you said that you don't want to deal with that since you live far away, but if this had happened to me, you bet your ass that I'd be flying down to Jacksonville or doing whatever else was necessary to take him down, just on sheer principle.

 

[Paulson]

Right but even if I win a judgement against him in small claims court doesn't meant I'll automatically get that money. Taking time off of work to fly down to Florida for a court date and sue him for the $1600 plus my plane ticket and filing fee... I'm sure I'd win but then what? The courts don't collect the judgement for you so I have no idea what would then happen.

Most likely I'll just sue him in MN small claims court because I know he won't travel here and even if I don't collect anything from him he'd still have a suit against him which could impact his finances in one way or another...

 

[Tweak155]

I just assumed he added the value of the iPhones + the chargeback = >$2800 as what he meant

Yes but this is still bad math.

Likely it was $2800 - $1600 = $1200 was his cost for the phones (thus his profit about $400).

When he got the $1600 he was +$1600 and when it got refunded, he was back at $0. Thus he is out only the cost for the phones, which is $1200 (plus possibly shipping).

So let's not exaggerate, mis-state, or blow things out of proportion. You can handle this very logically and calmly - IF you want to.

So the real cost sounds to be about $1200 to you. It is up to you if you wish to pursue this in aim of getting back $1200 (which is your likely award amount in a small claims court, but naturally sue for $1600). It sounds like you have all the evidence needed to win the case.

 

[j&j]

OK.... one weird thing, you shouldn't have been out a dime regardless of a chargeback.

If you shipped to him and were "Seller Protection Eligible" then you made your first mistake there if you weren't.

I've had chargebacks, and I'm not afraid of them anymore, I 100% ship with signature confirmation and only will ship if that nice little "Seller Protection Eligible" message shows up, NEVER otherwise.

Yes, the guy is a complete fuck and it would be worth a couple hundred dollar plane ticket to torch his shop with him tied up inside, however you gotta expect fucking wise and beautiful woman weasels like this so protect yourself first.

fuck the banks, ebay and especially fuck paypal.

 

[Number1]

Hey guys, FREE IPhones, check it out:

EBay

Just do a charge back once you got the phone.

 

[waggy]

My BS meter is running on this. People have given you good ideas and you blow them off.

you are out $1600 and just don't seem to be willing to do shit. besides tell us what you do and then link your store.

 

[Paulson]

It was seller protection eligible...

It's not a dispute of whether or not he received the item... he claimed they weren't as described and that's where PayPal has said there's nothing they can do, even though he sent me back a phone book.

I love it how eBay states the following:

"Blake,
Unfortunately there is nothing we can do when a buyer opens a charge back with their credit card company. That is really frustrating and I wish I could do something to help.
I wish you the best of luck
Sincerely,
Megan N."

I think I've sold something like $60K in items since June and they make money off of all of it yet there's nothing they can do, even though the scammer originated through eBay.

I'd be happy with just getting $1600 credit towards eBay fees...

 

[Chrono]

This is why I only use paypal for retailers and rarely purchase things through ebay or sell anymore. Ebay/Paypal both suck dick.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

I think I've sold something like $60K in items since June

That's exactly why they won't do anything about it.

What are you going to do? Stop selling on eBay?

 

[Paulson]

My BS meter is running on this. People have given you good ideas and you blow them off.

you are out $1600 and just don't seem to be willing to do shit. besides tell us what you do and then link your store.

You do realize it's a lot more work to file a claim (which might never be paid out) than how it is on TV court shows right?

I spent an hour on the phone with my police department, an hour & 1/2 on the phone with the Jacksonville FL police department... both tell me to go pound sand pretty much... it's not enough money to pursue any action.

Small claims court isn't some magical place... I haven't once linked to my store, I only gave an example of the items I sell (you can't buy any of them right now) and yeah... I was just simply telling my story so more people know how you can get fucked over by eBay... not hey guys, help me decide if I should go to small claims court or not.

 

[Paulson]

Hey guys, FREE IPhones, check it out:

EBay

Just do a charge back once you got the phone.

Hilarious.... now FUCK YOU

 

[Tweak155]

My BS meter is running on this. People have given you good ideas and you blow them off.

you are out $1600 and just don't seem to be willing to do shit. besides tell us what you do and then link your store.

Actually the OP has been giving very valid responses and considering all ideas. Just because an idea would *work*, doesn't mean you should do it.

If he buys the phone and does a chargeback, the guy in FL could also have the ID's of the phones and blacklist them himself. And now he'd just have bricked phones and out nearly an equal amount of money (could maybe still use some of the parts?).

 

[airdata]

There's a website to report online crime ' ic3.gov '

 

[Paulson]

Thanks Tweak,

Unless the parts are flawless (IE he didn't scratch/damage them) I can't reuse them. A majority of what an iPhone costs is the board itself... I sometimes pay over $200 for a phone that is beat to shit just because I need the board out of it... I don't care what it looks like.

I'm just trying to pay my mortgage, be a responsible adult and at the same time save some technology from ending up in the garbage (not to mention help people save money by switching to straight talk or page plus.)

Some people may think I'm gouging for a phone or something but honestly the amount of work that goes into refurbishing an entire phone is quite a bit. The entire phone gets taken apart, and then almost the entire phone is replaced (minus the board.) It's a lot of money in inventory, labor, shipping, seller fees... all of that BS. Plus I offer a 1 year warranty whereas most other companies tell you you're fucked after 1 month.

 

[Paulson]

There's a website to report online crime ' ic3.gov '

Already filled it out... haven't heard anything back from them (this was back November/early December I filed a report with them.)

 

[Paulson]

you sell electronics and you don't know how to hold your phone to shoot video??

You try holding a phone while using a box cutter to open a package...

I apologize for the craziness of the video movement but it's pretty difficult to do so...

 

[abaez]

OK.... one weird thing, you shouldn't have been out a dime regardless of a chargeback.

If you shipped to him and were "Seller Protection Eligible" then you made your first mistake there if you weren't.

I've had chargebacks, and I'm not afraid of them anymore, I 100% ship with signature confirmation and only will ship if that nice little "Seller Protection Eligible" message shows up, NEVER otherwise.

Yes, the guy is a complete fuck and it would be worth a couple hundred dollar plane ticket to torch his shop with him tied up inside, however you gotta expect fucking wise and beautiful woman weasels like this so protect yourself first.

fuck the banks, ebay and especially fuck paypal.

Don't think you understand. This guy called his credit card company and said that this paypal charge is fraud. Meaning that he lied or said something like some dude in Russia got his CC and did this charge.

Paypal cannot do shit in that situation. They say they will try to fight it for you (and charge you $25 for it), but if you lose Paypal will be going after you.

I know because this happened to me when I won a claim and he told his CC that the charge was fraudulent.

 

[Paulson]

That's correct, except he claimed that the merchandise was defective or something stupid like that.

What I hate is there should be some protective measures built in for sellers as well with chargebacks... fine, let him have his money back but make sure you give the merchandise back.

Credit card companies are evil... And I'd love to go after the bank that issued this chargeback but I can't because I have no way to subpoena PayPal for the information.

 

[Number1]

Hilarious.... now FUCK YOU

Calm down bud, it was just a joke. I feel for you.

 

[Paulson]

Oh I know it was a joke... that's why I put the smiley face there

Honestly it made me laugh!

 

[Ns1]

Yeah for $2800 I'd go fucking nuclear.