MY ending with AMD

[zsdersw]

Originally posted by: Darkskypoet
@zsdersw: again... Sigh... There would be no C2D this soon, without K8 X2.... Sigh... and yes Everyone and their dog with half a brain knows C2D is a revision of the multiple cores that was the Core project, which was a rethink on teh P3, which was closely related to the P2, which was itself a re-adaptation of Ppro (aka P6)... Which had some slight resemblance to the P5 (pentium) which differed massively from the 4x86... Much like Athlon was a massive departure from K6/x... And yes.. both C2d and Athlon architectures really just follow in the design footprints of Alpha... Are we happy now?

Sigh.. again.. he already said all of that. I'm providing the other half that he didn't say.

 

[zsdersw]

Originally posted by: eye smite
I'll reply to this one too. Maybe you didn't hear about intels big money loss in the ram industry they invested in and are folding shop on still. Maybe you didn't hear about the nearly 1 billion dollars they paid out in japan and europe for using strong arm tactics to keep their p4's floating on top, where most things like it float in the toilet bowl. AMD is a much smaller company and they're shooting for a bigger picture than immediate cpu performance that will blow the socks off the competition. That may not be the smartest approach short term, but lets see how long intel can keep their product looking rosey in the long term. When IT people start looking at long term (5 years or more) backwards compatibility of future products, alot of them will look at amd first. Case in point all socket f opteron servers can drop a barcelona quad core in with a bios flash and that sever will still be a viable sever when it hits age 5 or more. You can't say that about any of the xeons that are just 1.5 years old with netburst xeons in them. You want better performance from them you have to completely replace them with new stuff, and if you're running a datacenter with 300 rack mount servers, the cost is clearly in amd's favor. You need to take a chill pill and read a little more closely before you make such assenine posts.

I really have no idea what you're expectations are or perceptions are, but hey line up like a sheep and join the it's popular to change sides constantly band wagon. I'm sure we'll see a near identical post from you when amd finally gets back on top again and it will happen. Oh? You say won't happen eh? People were saying amd would never be on top when the athlon xp was the best they offered and intel was scrambling to stay ahead of it. Oh wow then the athlon64 trounced intel for 3 years running, but the haters said that would never happen, just like they're saying it will never happen again. Key difference they had to implement the word again in that statement.

And what does any of that AMD fanboy drivel have to do with my post?

 

[Darkskypoet]

LoL.. zsdersw... but yet again... it didn't... Damn it. C2D or no C2D K10 was next in line to come out even if it was 7ghz P4s... or Quad core p4s... C2D just launched a price war... Sigh. AMD doesn't have the resources for parallel design teams like Intel does. (Mobile / desktop / Itanium)

 

[zsdersw]

Originally posted by: Darkskypoet
LoL.. zsdersw... but yet again... it didn't... Damn it. C2D or no C2D K10 was next in line to come out even if it was 7ghz P4s... or Quad core p4s... C2D just launched a price war... Sigh.

The next thing would've come out.. but when? At what price?

 

[eye smite]

Yeah I sure do, core 2, core, and centrino all came from continued developement of the p3, which is a big admission to me that netburst was the largest flotsam in the toilet bowl. I mean, did you hear the toilet bowl explode when they finally flushed it?

 

[eye smite]

Oh I'm sorry I missed part that in my reply. Yes, athlon64 came from athlon xp which came from athlon thunderbird which came from athlon which came from k6-2 with 3dnow. Oh wow, did you know that 3dnow came from this little server chip named alpha as at the time compaq had a sizable share of amd and they owned DEC outright which invented and mass produced alpha servers, or do you know what an alpha chips is? Alot of the current amd architecture stemmed from a techonolgy injection nearly 10 years ago by Compaq through the alpha server chip. Did you know amd has never used strong arm tactics like intel has and that they haven't had to pay nearly 1 billion in fines to japan and european trade commissions for said strong arm tactics like intel did? Intel has always been a dirty company dating back to when they were the outscourcing company for IBM producing their 8088 cpu's and decided to do an end run and make the 8086 cpu effectively making the then IBM giant take a seat in a pine box for 6 feet under relocation. AMD might not have the fastest cpu atm, but they also don't try and manipulate the market like a 2 year old child crying mine repeatedly.

 

[Darkskypoet]

Exactly... lol... Price war for sure started by C2D... Phenom plans... No. AMD doesn't have that luxury... Is all I am saying.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: eye smite
Oh I'm sorry I missed part that in my reply. Yes, athlon64 came from athlon xp which came from athlon thunderbird which came from athlon which came from k6-2 with 3dnow. Oh wow, did you know that 3dnow came from this little server chip named alpha as at the time compaq had a sizable share of amd and they owned DEC outright which invented and mass produced alpha servers, or do you know what an alpha chips is? Alot of the current amd architecture stemmed from a techonolgy injection nearly 10 years ago by Compaq through the alpha server chip. Did you know amd has never used strong arm tactics like intel has and that they haven't had to pay nearly 1 billion in fines to japan and european trade commissions for said strong arm tactics like intel did? Intel has always been a dirty company dating back to when they were the outscourcing company for IBM producing their 8088 cpu's and decided to do an end run and make the 8086 cpu effectively making the then IBM giant take a seat in a pine box for 6 feet under relocation. AMD might not have the fastest cpu atm, but they also don't try and manipulate the market like a 2 year old child crying mine repeatedly.

Two words for you :

(1)- Paragraphs!

(2)- Waaah!

 

[zsdersw]

Originally posted by: eye smite
Oh I'm sorry I missed part that in my reply. Yes, athlon64 came from athlon xp which came from athlon thunderbird which came from athlon which came from k6-2 with 3dnow. Oh wow, did you know that 3dnow came from this little server chip named alpha as at the time compaq had a sizable share of amd and they owned DEC outright which invented and mass produced alpha servers, or do you know what an alpha chips is?

That part of your post is relevant to the discussion at hand, whereas this part:

Alot of the current amd architecture stemmed from a techonolgy injection nearly 10 years ago by Compaq through the alpha server chip. Did you know amd has never used strong arm tactics like intel has and that they haven't had to pay nearly 1 billion in fines to japan and european trade commissions for said strong arm tactics like intel did? Intel has always been a dirty company dating back to when they were the outscourcing company for IBM producing their 8088 cpu's and decided to do an end run and make the 8086 cpu effectively making the then IBM giant take a seat in a pine box for 6 feet under relocation. AMD might not have the fastest cpu atm, but they also don't try and manipulate the market like a 2 year old child crying mine repeatedly.

.. isn't.

You're so bursting-at-the-seams with AMD fanaticism that you're getting the timing and placement all wrong.

 

[Munky]

After having read several reviews of Phenom, I don't consider it a failure from a design perspective. If AMD had the capability right now to ramp up clock speeds to 3ghz and faster, and the L3 cache ran at full speed, I would consider it on par in performance with Intel cpu's. So while AMD may be lagging in the manufacturing aspect, I don't see the situation as hopeless and some of you, or call Phenom a failure when we don't even know how things will turn out a year or two from now.

 

[zsdersw]

I suppose it's a matter of expectations, munky. Many were expecting Phenom to live up to its name and be.. uhh.. Phenomenal, from several perspectives: power usage, performance, and price. It'll be competitive with Intel's offerings, for sure, but it won't be the blow-out many AMD fanatics were hoping for.

The expectations game is very tricky.. and, unless played very well or with factual premonition, prone to only one of two outcomes: extreme success or extreme disappointment.

 

[Darkskypoet]

Thank You Munky... Reason and sense prevails... Primates 1 - Humankind 0

 

[Darkskypoet]

Rather those that work themselves up into a fervor over something experience either of those things. I believe the jury is still out on Phenom, as do many that know the whole story... That being said, IF AMD makes phenom OCable on the cheapest $60 mobo as it is on the more expensive mobos, then we'll be in for a treat, as currently I can take cheap as dirt chips, on cheap AMD boards and get a huge OC... Whereas on teh intel side, I must spend some coin, or voltmod to get around issues over clocking Q6600s.

That metric remains to be seen. AS I have a $125 x2-3600 and biostar 7050 mobo that runs stable at 3.04 ghz and beats the crap out of any intel solution at the same price point. All with a $22 Artic Freezer 64, and .2v extra vcore.

If the various Bios Patches brings 10% increase in perf (fixed Memory recognition and L3 Cache speed) this debate becomes moot, and phenom B2 isn't quite the failure its become today. Especially as L3 cache issues were directly tied to OC stability >2.4ghz, and I am sure scaling as well... It explains the weirdness of the benchmarks in many reviews at any rate.

AS I said, jury is still out. Esp. considering AMD could just dump a whole lot of these Spins to OEMs for under spec pricing...

 

[zsdersw]

Originally posted by: Darkskypoet
Rather those that work themselves up into a fervor over something experience either of those things.

That's not a "rather" to anything I said.

 

[Darkskypoet]

Originally posted by: zsdersw
The expectations game is very tricky.. and, unless played very well or with factual premonition, prone to only one of two outcomes: extreme success or extreme disappointment.

Actually it is.... (see above) Only those in a fervor would feel only one of those two things... Only fanatics would fall into that limited dichotomy, unless I am missing your point. Always possible.

 

[zsdersw]

"unless played very well", meaning: not expecting too much or too little, which is another way of saying what you said.

 

[Darkskypoet]

As in the expectant playing it very well??? Not those forming the expectations? I guess then it makes more sense. At the same point, I never expected to find that a moderate response required one to play the expectations game very well, I always assumed the majority would react in a moderate way, and fanatics would respond as fanatics do...

 

[zsdersw]

The majority can always be counted on to not react moderately (sensibly) on occasion.

Exhibit A: The re-election of George W. Bush in 2004.

Exhibit B: Initial support in America for the war in Iraq.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: zsdersw
The majority can always be counted on to not react moderately (sensibly) on occasion.

Exhibit A: The re-election of George W. Bush in 2004.

Exhibit B: Initial support in America for the war in Iraq.

Well, to be fair :

(A)- I don't know how Kerry got nominated, but I have my suspicions (check Skull & Bones). He was the worst possible Dem nominee. He is a horrible speaker, horrible personality, and incredibly weak debater. It's not too far of a stretch to figure out that Kerry was so bad, that there wasn't much motivation beyond the dedicated Dem base to support him. Also, the Bush administration's propaganda machine was still spinning good enough fables about Iraq that dissatisfaction with that policy hadn't hit critical mass yet. Boy, if those voters knew in '04 that Iraq would still be a worthless, dangerous, sh*thole on the verge of '08 under the Bush doctrines, things might have turned out a bit different.

(B)- Go back to the bunch of B.S. that was shoved down everyone's throat back during the leadup to the invasion. Only the 'conspiracy theorists', and reasonably educated skeptics thought that there were no WMD or clear and present danger from Iraq. Sure, only an absolute idiot would believe that Al Qaeda had a credible Iraqi connection, or that Iraq had *ANY*thing to do with 9/11, but hey, look at the 30%ers right now, sucking on Bush's arse even to the bitter end.

(C)- We're probably going from the worst President in the history of our country, to perhaps the 2nd or 3rd worst, if Hillary gets in. Oh well, with the power swaying from the hard right back to the left, maybe there will be some balance in the mix. Sort of like Clinton with a Rep Congress. That wasn't so bad. If anything, we've learned the hard way that a R President with an R congress = disaster at every turn, and it would be disingenuous to believe that it would be much better under a D+D mix.

EDIT : All apologies, I regularly post in P&N, and due to reading the above post, must have thought that's where I was posting this reply. Bleh

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: jones377

Originally posted by: Viditor
2. "AMD has fallen way behind in Marketshare because of C2D" - In point of fact, AMD's marketshare is much higher than it was before C2D.
AMD's current marketshare is 23.5%, prior to C2D it was 21.6% or less...

What about dollarshare?

A very good question...and a different story.
Revenue share for AMD hit it's peak in Q3 2006 and then declined. This is much more indicative of C2D's effect on AMD...
That said, since Q1 2007, AMD's Revenue share has been coming back steadily...though it's still not even near their Q3 2006 Rev Share.
Q3 2007 Rev share hasn't been published for the public as of yet, but the numbers for prior quarters are:

2006
Q2 = 16.4%
Q3 = 16.8%
Q4 = 15.7%

2007
Q1 = 10.9%
Q2 = 13.4%

Since AMD's revenue was so much better than expected in Q3, I would guess that their revenue share has increased again, though this is by no means a certainty...

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: trajan2050
The only reason AMD's marketshare improved at all is because they are selling their products at a substantial loss. This trend shows no sign of abating. Obviously it cannot go on indefinitely.

This is absolutely incorrect...
If AMD were selling their products at a loss, they would have a negative Gross Profit.
In fact, their Gross Profit for Q3 was $669 Million.

Just because a Company takes a loss for a quarter, doesn't mean they are selling below cost. It means that they have other expenses beyond the cost of making the chips that brings their net profit into the loss category.

 

[amenx]

Originally posted by: Darkskypoet
That metric remains to be seen. AS I have a $125 x2-3600 and biostar 7050 mobo that runs stable at 3.04 ghz and beats the crap out of any intel solution at the same price point. All with a $22 Artic Freezer 64, and .2v extra vcore.

Rubbish. An e2160 is a much easier OC @3ghz than the x2 3600 and would beat the living daylights out of it at that frequency:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...um-e2160_14.html#sect0

edit$79 for the e2160 (with stock heatsink) + $60 mobo is less than $125 + $22 Freezer Pro. Even @ 2.8ghz with stock cooling it'll leave the x2 3600 in the dust.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: QuiksilverX1

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: QuiksilverX1
That whole rant about how you don't know who AMD is anymore was about the most lame half-assed attempt at trying to explain why the AMD fanboy in you died after holding out for so long.

Do you remember when Apoppin popped over the ATi/AMD release? That was pretty memorable.

Nope, I missed it. What I miss

Originally posted by: AmberClad
Boo, I missed that. Do tell, do tell .

Well back in the day before R600 release, Apoppin was quite the cheerleader for R600 and he valiantly fought with NVidia crowd nearly single-handedly in many many threads.

For months before R600 release you could not enter the Video Card forum and avoid Apoppin gallantly defending AMD/ATI's honor.

At any rate, when R600 release came to pass and it was a deplorable as the Nvidia camp had been touting, something popped inside Apoppin and he created this thread:

The Real Lessons of the AMD's launch

When all the world's reality of how horrible R600 was had finally weighed down on the poor guy, he just popped as best I can envision it when I read that "end of an era" thread.

In the K10 Barcelona/Phenom run-up I saw striking parallels to our very own CPU forum's Viditor, and felt sorrow for him as I did for Apoppin.

Honestly I was worried Viditor was/has been building himself into the same level of emotional/mental investment into "Phenom must be a success" that I assumed we be seeing a similiar thread started from him titled "Why AMD and me are finished".

At any rate I don't say these things out of lack of respect for these gentlemen, just observations from thread watching combined with a little bit of sympathy for what their world must be like considering how invested they are/were in "AMD will make it all right as rain, you'll see, you'll all see!".

I personally hope their sanity stands up to the pressures the reality of our world continues to insist on imposing into theirs.

 

[harpoon84]

Eh, Viditor will be fine. He's seems like a pretty level headed guy.

Just a little egg on the face that's all, but I'm sure he'll get over it.

 

[Darkskypoet]

Originally posted by: amenx

Originally posted by: Darkskypoet
That metric remains to be seen. AS I have a $125 x2-3600 and biostar 7050 mobo that runs stable at 3.04 ghz and beats the crap out of any intel solution at the same price point. All with a $22 Artic Freezer 64, and .2v extra vcore.

Rubbish. An e2160 is a much easier OC @3ghz than the x2 3600 and would beat the living daylights out of it at that frequency:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...um-e2160_14.html#sect0

edit$79 for the e2160 (with stock heatsink) + $60 mobo is less than $125 + $22 Freezer Pro. Even @ 2.8ghz with stock cooling it'll leave the x2 3600 in the dust.

Which mobo is that for $60? As well, my freezer is silent... Intel stock cooling at load with that setup.. not. And when I bought, the CDN dollar was sitting around 89 cents / USD What currency are your prices in? Additionally, I can get a way with slower ram, as my mem bandwidth will blow you out of the park, if you used the same crap that came with my kit.

Bundle was ~ $225 CDN @ ncix: x2-3600, biostar tforce 7050, and 2gb Patriot pc5300... It runs 24/7 at ~2850... .125v above stock, and at 3040 .212v above stock... So what mobo was that again? Most microATX boards at the time of purchase for C2D couldn't overclock their way out of a paper bag... So I am curious.

EDIT: OMG that review has it on a P5K Deluxe!!!! Thats not a $60 mainboard my friend... That Mobo is 3 times the price of the chip at least. WHICH WAS MY POINT EXACTLY!!!!