My friend 'hates' God.

[Red Dawn]

However, how can you hold the those deeds commited by religious fanatics/zealots/lunatics hundreds and thousands of years ago against people of religion today?

9/11!!!!

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: soccerbud34
But when was the last time that you hear a non lunatic/zealot/fanatic christian here in the U.S., who follows and reads the bible, sacrifice, torture, and kill little children due to conflicts of different religious ideologies?

So when some people condemn others, they aren't real christians, they are just zealots. Then I guess Pope is a zealot, since he has condemned homosexuality several times.

You are the one who intereprets the meanings of passages in the bible, and if your interpretation of the bible urges for you to go and kill/torture little children, i have nothing else to say.

Let's see.... Bible says "God is love". Christians automatically assume that "This means that God loves us all". But if bible says "Kill everyone you see, including the children!", then it doesn't mean what it says, rather it has somekind of hidden meaning or something. Why is it that the verses that show christianity in good light are intrepeted literally, whereas those "undesireable" verses are not? Could it just be an attempt to cover up the fact that christian god is wicked, evil and bloodthirsty?

 

[soccerbud34]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: soccerbud34

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

This is pretty much dedpuhl has done.

As have the Christians and the Jews in the past.

As i said, religion has done its fair share of bad deeds in the past.
However, how can you hold the those deeds commited by religious fanatics/zealots/lunatics hundreds and thousands of years ago against people of religion today?

Because they continue to do bad things? Let's see.... Covering up for the child-molesters, denying the use of condoms etc. (which causes lots of unwated pregnancies and spread of AIDS), condemning homosexuality, condemning atheists and other religions, forcing their ideas and moral-code to others, killing abortion-doctors, figting against scientific research...

Let me give you my views on the issues you have addressed one by one.

Child-Molestors: I can't not argue for them, for what they have done is a sick, sick thing. However, you are allowing a few bad priests (10 to 20 ... or if you are on the extreme, hundreds) to taint the image of thousands and thousands of pastors and priests nation wide.

For example, Dr. Kavorkian and other doctors world wide who have killed their patients with or w/o their consent do not represent the image of the doctor population.

Denying the use of condoms: I am assuming that this is a catholic related issue since they are against abortion. As far as i know, my motheris a catholic; however, she is not against the use of condoms. In fact, she encourages for me to use them for safe sex. Therefore, i think the use of condom varies from church to church and priests to priests.

Condemning Homosexuality: i can't not argue for this. I do know of churches that preaches against it. Personally, though, I have nothing against homosexuals. Someof my christian friends and mother are not against homosexuality. For they say, to each his own. But some of my christian friends do have something against homosexuality. And again, so do many of my guy non-chrisitna friends.

Condemning atheists and other religions, forcing their moral code on others: I have yet met any chrisitians who condemn atheists and other religions and force their moral code on others (but i do have family and friends who have their christian parents try and pass their the moral code to them, but forcing is a harsh word) I guess most of my christian friends and family relatives are more tolerant than others. However, many of them do try and convert me (i am an agnostic). But i politely said "no thank you" and they have not bothered me with the question ever since. Though they have made it know that they are praying for me, although i take it more as a kind gesture rather than something that irks me.

Killing abortion-doctors, figting against scientific research...[/quote] All i can say about those killing abortion doctors are they are simply fanatics and zealots.
Really no different than the Al-Queda terrorists. Can't comment much on scientific research since i do not know much about it.

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: soccerbud34
Let me give you my views on the issues you have addressed one by one.

Child-Molestors: I can't not argue for them, for what they have done is a sick, sick thing. However, you are allowing a few bad priests (10 to 20 ... or if you are on the extreme, hundreds) to taint the image of thousands and thousands of pastors and priests nation wide.

No, I'm not condemning Catholic church because of "few bad priests". I'm condemning them because they knew about it, yet they did NOTHING to prevent it! Quite the contrary, they tried to shut the families up, and they kept moving the priests around in order to minimize the "rumours". They could have turned those priests to the police, but they did not, they chose to cover things up. It seems that just about all the leaders of the church knew about it, and they did NOTHING! That is why I condemn them!

For example, Dr. Kavorkian and other doctors world wide who have killed their patients with or w/o their consent do not represent the image of the doctor population.

When did euthanasia enter in to this discussion? I'm talking about doctors who do abortions. And I'm not aware of cases where Kevorkian killed his patients against their will.

FYI: I support euthanasia.

Denying the use of condoms: I am assuming that this is a catholic related issue since they are against abortion. As far as i know, my motheris a catholic; however, she is not against the use of condoms. In fact, she encourages for me to use them for safe sex. Therefore, i think the use of condom varies from church to church and priests to priests.

Good for your mother! If only the leadership of the catholic church were as smart. Sadly, they are not.

Condemning Homosexuality: i can't not argue for this. I do know of churches that preaches against it. Personally, though, I have nothing against homosexuals. Someof my christian friends and mother are not against homosexuality. For they say, to each his own. But some of my christian friends do have something against homosexuality. And again, so do many of my guy non-chrisitna friends.

But it's the OFFICIAL stand of the catholic church (and alot of other churches) that homosexuality is wicked and evil. Sure, there are atheists and other who propably think it's wrong, but that's their personal opinion, it's not the official opinion of all atheists.

Condemning atheists and other religions, forcing their moral code on others: I have yet met any chrisitians who condemn atheists and other religions and force their moral code on others

Consider yourself lucky.

 

[soccerbud34]

Let's see.... Bible says "God is love". Christians automatically assume that "This means that God loves us all". But if bible says "Kill everyone you see, including the children!", then it doesn't mean what it says, rather it has somekind of hidden meaning or something. Why is it that the verses that show christianity in good light are intrepeted literally, whereas those "undesireable" verses are not? Could it just be an attempt to cover up the fact that christian god is wicked, evil and bloodthirsty?

I can not say that God is an all loving God and nothing else. For him, heself said He is a jealous God.

As to your question about interpretation, again i have to say, it is to your own personal interpretation. If one reads "God is Love" and feel the urge to go blow himself up in the local supermarket, what can i say? And that applies to passages which urges for people to kill little children.

But then again, like previously stated, i am an agonstic who hasn't touched the bible for 6 years, so i will leave the deeper argument to those who are commited to the bible and their religion.

 

[soccerbud34]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: soccerbud34
Let me give you my views on the issues you have addressed one by one.

Child-Molestors: I can't not argue for them, for what they have done is a sick, sick thing. However, you are allowing a few bad priests (10 to 20 ... or if you are on the extreme, hundreds) to taint the image of thousands and thousands of pastors and priests nation wide.

No, I'm not condemning Catholic church because of "few bad priests". I'm condemning them because they knew about it, yet they did NOTHING to prevent it! Quite the contrary, they tried to shut the families up, and they kept moving the priests around in order to minimize the "rumours". They could have turned those priests to the police, but they did not, they chose to cover things up. It seems that just about all the leaders of the church knew about it, and they did NOTHING! That is why I condemn them!

For example, Dr. Kavorkian and other doctors world wide who have killed their patients with or w/o their consent do not represent the image of the doctor population.

When did euthanasia enter in to this discussion? I'm talking about doctors who do abortions. And I'm not aware of cases where Kevorkian killed his patients against their will.

FYI: I support euthanasia.

Denying the use of condoms: I am assuming that this is a catholic related issue since they are against abortion. As far as i know, my motheris a catholic; however, she is not against the use of condoms. In fact, she encourages for me to use them for safe sex. Therefore, i think the use of condom varies from church to church and priests to priests.

Good for your mother! If only the leadership of the catholic church were as smart. Sadly, they are not.

Condemning Homosexuality: i can't not argue for this. I do know of churches that preaches against it. Personally, though, I have nothing against homosexuals. Someof my christian friends and mother are not against homosexuality. For they say, to each his own. But some of my christian friends do have something against homosexuality. And again, so do many of my guy non-chrisitna friends.

But it's the OFFICIAL stand of the catholic church (and alot of other churches) that homosexuality is wicked and evil. Sure, there are atheists and other who propably think it's wrong, but that's their personal opinion, it's not the official opinion of all atheists.

Condemning atheists and other religions, forcing their moral code on others: I have yet met any chrisitians who condemn atheists and other religions and force their moral code on others

Consider yourself lucky.

I am not arguing for the Catholic Church or the Pope, for I could really care less about them. I am simply pleading my case and my ideas for the everyday joe who believes in christianity such as my mother, my friends, and the good pastors/youth pastor/priests that i know.

I guess i wrote my analogy pertaining to the doctor in a wrong way than i intended (have not yet gone to bed since 12pm yesterday). But what i meant was with in the past couple years that it has been found that there doctors who killed their patients w/o their consents or the patients knowing; psycho doctors basicly, I am talking about them, not the abortion doctors

As to homosexuality, it might be the official stance of many denominations; however, it does not represent all followers under those denominations are against the idea of homosexuality. I am sure many are, but then again, not all are.

edit** off to bed, g'night guys ... it has been a rather constructive argument for the past couple posts **

 

[Pooteh]

"If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-)

"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

"Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:7)

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51) "The God will say: 'Jesus, son of Mary, did you ever say to mankind 'Worship me and my mother as gods besides God?' 'Glory to You, 'he will answer, 'how could I ever say that to which I have no right?" (Surah 5:114-)

 

[Jfur]

He's been traumatized and it probably didn't help when endless people said things like "it's Gods will" (even if they were trying to console him). He is looking for an explanation for death and human suffereing and there is none, there's no real answer for why he's lost so many people. So just try to be his friend and listen to him without bringing up God or any type of religion. Maybe that will help him heal and put him in a position where he can choose whether or not to embrace religion.

 

[LordMaul]

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI
Those are the hard types to turn around. Especially if they're stubborn like that. If he actually goes out of his way to try and prove that there is no such thing as Jesus and God and purposely turns his back on Them, he's got a one way ticket to hell for sure. Try having rational conversations with him and showing him that most intelligent people believe in God, so we can't all be idiots. Plus, the sheer fact of the world we live in, its beauty, the science of life, and the entire Universe... there IS a Creator.

you call that a rational conversation? "there IS a creator." (no further explanations are necessary, apparently... just look around, it should be blatantly obvious) "most intelligent people believe in god, so we can't all be idiots". i'm sorry, but why does that mean you can't all be idiots (i'm assuming by "intelligent" you meant "not legally retarded").

you should be looking to help this person cope with his losses, not trying to push your religion onto him.

Before the mid-1600's, most intelligent people believed the earth was flat.

Alrighty. I'll hypothetically give you 400 years to prove to me that there is no way God exists.

Yeah, I thought so. You can't.

 

[Imported]

Originally posted by: LordMaul

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI
Those are the hard types to turn around. Especially if they're stubborn like that. If he actually goes out of his way to try and prove that there is no such thing as Jesus and God and purposely turns his back on Them, he's got a one way ticket to hell for sure. Try having rational conversations with him and showing him that most intelligent people believe in God, so we can't all be idiots. Plus, the sheer fact of the world we live in, its beauty, the science of life, and the entire Universe... there IS a Creator.

you call that a rational conversation? "there IS a creator." (no further explanations are necessary, apparently... just look around, it should be blatantly obvious) "most intelligent people believe in god, so we can't all be idiots". i'm sorry, but why does that mean you can't all be idiots (i'm assuming by "intelligent" you meant "not legally retarded").

you should be looking to help this person cope with his losses, not trying to push your religion onto him.

Before the mid-1600's, most intelligent people believed the earth was flat.

Alrighty. I'll hypothetically give you 400 years to prove to me that there is no way God exists.

Yeah, I thought so. You can't.

The same can be said for the other way around. :\

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: LordMaul

Alrighty. I'll hypothetically give you 400 years to prove to me that there is no way God exists.

Yeah, I thought so. You can't.

God is a concept, and a subjective one at that. I'm not denying its (God's) existence, but I am saying that just because a large portion of the Western world believes in one particular faith doesn't validate that faith or make any others less relevent or meaningful.

 

[UberDave]

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: LordMaul

Alrighty. I'll hypothetically give you 400 years to prove to me that there is no way God exists.

Yeah, I thought so. You can't.

God is a concept, and a subjective one at that. I'm not denying its (God's) existence, but I am saying that just because a large portion of the Western world believes in one particular faith doesn't validate that faith or make any others less relevent or meaningful.

We'll find out when we die.

The End.

 

[Kitros]

My friend 'hates' God.

Oh no. :Q

Is he gay, too?

BURN HIM I SAY, BEFORE HE INFECTS US ALL!!!!!

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: UberDave

We'll find out when we die.

The End.

Aye, we will. I do think we will find God to be much more than any of us could have thought of.

Maybe I should look into mysticism... hmm.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Kitros

My friend 'hates' God.

Oh no. :Q

Is he gay, too?

BURN HIM I SAY, BEFORE HE INFECTS US ALL!!!!!

Those are the dangerous ones, you know.

Always giving our youth new ideas and new ways of thinking... pffft.

 

[yllus]

He's lost his mother, step-dad, and sister (i think) to cancer, DUIs and other things I guess

I sincerely hope you haven't taken upon yourself to "help" him, or worse - preach to him about the uberlove of God. If I had gone through what he apparently has and someone started spouting off to me about how aside from all that I should come back to religion, I'd probably give that guy a hard cuff to the jaw. Don't even pretend to know what's better for him. If he's "meant to" find his way back to religion, he will do so in time.

P.S. I'm not going to wade through 130-odd posts, so I read your initial one and this is a reply to that.

 

[Kitros]

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: Kitros

My friend 'hates' God.

Oh no. :Q

Is he gay, too?

BURN HIM I SAY, BEFORE HE INFECTS US ALL!!!!!

Those are the dangerous ones, you know.

Always giving our youth new ideas and new ways of thinking... pffft.

New ideas you say?!

BAH to that! Bah to all new ideas that may come from the MOUTHS OF HERETICS!

BURN HIM FOR HE SHANT BE CURED!

 

[HardwareAddicted]

Originally posted by: littleprince
U guys must be mormons.

Your way isnt the only way. He has as much right to hate god as you do to love him.

If u were really christian, or catholic or whatever you THINK you are, you would pray for your friend rather than condem him.
See you in hell.

God obviously isn't done with you yet..... and no, I won't be seeing you in hell.

You have only given us more of a reason to NOT be like you.... bitter & unhappy.

I pray you soften your cold, hardened heart.... it's really not that bad.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: HardwareAddicted

Originally posted by: littleprince
U guys must be mormons.

Your way isnt the only way. He has as much right to hate god as you do to love him.

If u were really christian, or catholic or whatever you THINK you are, you would pray for your friend rather than condem him.
See you in hell.

God obviously isn't done with you yet..... and no, I won't be seeing you in hell.

You have only given us more of a reason to NOT be like you.... bitter & unhappy.

I pray you soften your cold, hardened heart.... it's really not that bad.

Haha, I love how condescending people can get.

 

[Kitros]

Is this a Catholic board? Oh wait, who's board is this?

Anand's?

Oh wait he's not... not... NON-Catholic is he?!?!?

BURN HIM TOO!!!

I'm going to quote somebody here, maybe you can google this one... a simple copy and paste will do... might be hard if you aren't Catholic, because I heard NON-Catholics can't read...

Attacking other innocent people because of their beliefs, background, race or religion is no better than what was done to the thousands of unfortunate individuals yesterday. Do not lower yourself to that level.

 

[jarsoffart]

Give him the book Letters from a skeptic. I read some of it even though I was a Christian. Superb book.

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: LordMaul

Alrighty. I'll hypothetically give you 400 years to prove to me that there is no way God exists.

Yeah, I thought so. You can't.

You also can't prove there is a God in 400 years

.

But...since there is nothing you can point to and say "There is God beyond a doubt (this being irrefutable proof that no one could deny)", the burdon of proff necessarily is in your hands to prove that there is a God. It does not rest in those who don't believe in God.

 

[Angrymarshmello]

To each his own - let him believe what he wants - if everything that happened to him happened to me I'd feel the same way. No point in forcing your religious beliefs upon someone else (and vice versa if he's doing it to you as opposed to explaining how he feels)

 

[Boethius]

I can see where your friend is coming from... God has been used in many different languages while killing. For example in christianity where people where slaughtering each other for the same religion, in the name of God. Or for example people using God as an access to power, making the people believe that they are the chosen one. Anyone agree?

 

[AnyMal]

OK, let me settle this one for all of you: If there really is Heaven and Hell I am willing to go to Hell for all of you! That's right, I'll be the Jesus of Hell! I will take all your sins so that you can be forgiven and sent to Heaven. That's right, I am volunteering myself for eternal Hell duty. Where else you can receive a lifetime supply of booze, cigarettes and easy women for free? Hopefully, by the time I get there they'll offer high-speed Internet as well. Then I'll be all set. In the mean time all you church choir p@ssy boys/girls can earn yourself a place in Heaven and your priest's pants.

Peace!