My impressions owning both the FX8350 and now the 3770k.

[Chiropteran]

The difference is AMD offers internal information so open source drivers can be written. Nvidia does not, but does produce official drivers which seem to mostly work for most people- but if you need open source for whatever reason, nvidia's drivers are worthless.

So common end user fanboys on forums think nvidia is better because it works for them, but the actual kernel and OS developers who work on linux hate nvidia.

 

[Torn Mind]

I was basing my statement on a brief Google search. At least half the forum comments I found advocated Nvidia, and the other half was saying that the drivers are roughly equal. Very few posts claimed AMD is better than Nvidia.

Also, Redtruthseeker is a consistent AMD advocate, even when other processors are better for the user. Pretty much all his posts have been "ah but APU/FX series!" so I tend to take everything he says with a pinch of salt.

Now, I normally agree with the superiority of AMD for GPUs this generation, but from the last I knew, Nvidia worked better, with fewer problems, or at the very least equally well, with Linux.

But who am I to question the developer of Linux? He knows much more than I do about his own operating system, so I'll take his word for it.

Well, even with the "not as much as they could", I don't think AMD did a great job either, given the reputation they have built for themselves. You could say they both don't give enough of a crap.

Torvalds created and still maintains the kernel. The rest of the OS is added on by those maintaining the distros.

 

[Torn Mind]

The difference is AMD offers internal information so open source drivers can be written. Nvidia does not, but does produce official drivers which seem to mostly work for most people- but if you need open source for whatever reason, nvidia's drivers are worthless.

So common end user fanboys on forums think nvidia is better because it works for them, but the actual kernel and OS developers who work on linux hate nvidia.

Ah, so there is a discrepancy between what the end user wants (driver that just works) and the developer's wants(release of code to work with).

Very enlightening.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Nvidia feels their driver code holds a competitive advantage, they lost a big contract in China because they would not open source their drivers.

 

[guskline]

Idontcare: First my apologies to Mark and Virge. Glad you set the record straight. I might make a contibution to them except your "poundage" charge is a little steep. I enjoyed your pm discussion about the difference between the 8350 and 3770k. I must say that your analogy to two different girlfriends and their "anatomical" differences was one of the most "colorful" and descriptive examples I have seen in print in years!

 

[vampirr]

There are alot of Open Source AMD drivers out there, the problem is that they all don't work together... Somewhat divided, AMD has not much money to invest in software for Linux but I am sure that they will when Temash tablets eat and spit Intels for breakfast.

As for processors, for the price AMD is great and even thought Intel makes great CPU's, the price is not really tempting at all. I don't blame AMD for not being that great in marketing, we should really blame the people for not thinking for themself and not doing the research at all to check the alternative that is more affordable and gives you more punch for a price. I wish I could work for AMD to put back the balance into CPU market.

Anyway anyone still remembers S3 Graphics? Those legendary guys from 80/90is that ruled the 2D GPU market and tried in 2D/3D section and eventually got destroyed even thought they gave us great texture format and compression that we even use today most likely for the games we play all day? S3 Graphics was bought by HTC in 2012

 

[Ketchup]

As for processors, for the price AMD is great and even thought Intel makes great CPU's, the price is not really tempting at all. I don't blame AMD for not being that great in marketing, we should really blame the people for not thinking for themself and not doing the research at all to check the alternative that is more affordable and gives you more punch for a price. I wish I could work for AMD to put back the balance into CPU market.

And here we go, just took longer than we thought it would.

 

[ViRGE]

Guys, this isn't a thread about Linux. Please stick to processors. If you wish to talk OSes, start a new thread or even better head to the OSes forum.

-Thanks
ViRGE

 

[vampirr]

I am sorry if my statement offended you in anyway...

OK I maybe a bit biased to AMD, anyway the problem is that people don't do research or know what to get for the things they want to do really. Since Intel is having almost a monopoly on CPU market thanks to their ways of obtaining it in legal(and illegal) ways.

My main point if fact is if there is no great competition the processors wont be that much better for the price and overall/advancement progress of Central Processing Units...

GPU market is balanced well, CPU market balance is just terrible. Reminds me of Nintendo in 80is, it was terrible and quite scary to see the dominance and atleast it had real benefit for costumers compared what would happen if AMD would die, it would be hell.

Before we had Cyrix, Nec, AMD, IBM and Intel, now we only have AMD and Intel in PC market while IBM is secondary for some things... Before we had in GPU market S3 Graphics, Nvidia, ATI, Voodoo, Matrox, etc... Now only AMD and Nvidia :S

 

[2is]

There are alot of Open Source AMD drivers out there, the problem is that they all don't work together... Somewhat divided, AMD has not much money to invest in software for Linux but I am sure that they will when Temash tablets eat and spit Intels for breakfast.

As for processors, for the price AMD is great and even thought Intel makes great CPU's, the price is not really tempting at all. I don't blame AMD for not being that great in marketing, we should really blame the people for not thinking for themself and not doing the research at all to check the alternative that is more affordable and gives you more punch for a price. I wish I could work for AMD to put back the balance into CPU market.

Anyway anyone still remembers S3 Graphics? Those legendary guys from 80/90is that ruled the 2D GPU market and tried in 2D/3D section and eventually got destroyed even thought they gave us great texture format and compression that we even use today most likely for the games we play all day? S3 Graphics was bought by HTC in 2012

Most people don't buy CPU's, they buy computers at a retail store, which has a price they can clearly see and compare an Intel vs AMD machine. The issue isn't that people don't know, the issue is that AMD isn't as competitive as you think they are in the price segment. The only place they are competitive is AMD's highest end vs Intel's highest end (consumer platform) and even then, only competitive on price, rarely performance. Once you drop below i7 territory, the prices are a whole lot closer and AMD still doesn't hold a performance advantage for most things.

 

[AtenRa]

Once you drop below i7 territory, the prices are a whole lot closer and AMD still doesn't hold a performance advantage for most things.

Yeap, those FX6300 dont hold any performance advantages against the core i3s or the FX8320 against entry Core i5 and Trinity doesnt obliterate every Intel Core i CPU in Graphics etc

 

[2is]

Is Trinity the same IGP that's gimped on many computers because they aren't configured for dual channel?

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yeap, those FX6300 dont hold any performance advantages against the core i3s or the FX8320 against entry Core i5 and Trinity doesnt obliterate every Intel Core i CPU in Graphics etc

"For most things" a pentium or i3 is perfectly fine, the price is right, and the unit sips power. I know you will probably call it some intel conspiracy, but the availability is excellent also. How many reasonably priced FX6300 units have you seen in big box stores like Best buy, staples, office max, etc? APU desktops are also priced higher than they should be in most cases, although they are becoming more reasonable since they have been out for a while now.

For instance a few months ago, an i5 was cheaper in costco than an A10. If you dont care about graphics, just get the i5. If you care about graphics, get the i5, add a 7750 that requires no external power, and you have better performance in both areas, and the price actually would have been less than the A10.

 

[vampirr]

I agree, I registered couple of hours ago and I saw some other forums and everybody citing the flagship AMD or the APU's with K and not the non K and dont know much about them.

FX 8320 is almost as FX 8350, its 10-20$ cheaper and its sweet for the price...

When somebody mentions A10 5800k or A8 5600k and say they have TDP of 100watts well if they don't plan to overclock at all they could get a A10 5700 or A8 5500 that have TDP of 65watts or just tweak their K siblings to act as non k counterparts...

Also too bad that there is no Athlon 2 X4 750k in USA that costs 81$ compared to Intel G2120 that is 100$. I think it would kill G2120, since its a quadcore

-edit-
That price can only happen in America, America, America... Wow

Athlon 2 x4 750k is a A10 without a GPU, just saying...

 

[inf64]

One more week and A10 6700 comes . Let me see intel fans recommending i3 against a 65W 3.7/4.1Ghz QC with 850Mhz 384SP Radeon GPU onboard(with 2133Mhz official support). Price should be in the line of previous 5700,only value will be higher.

 

[vampirr]

Richland is Trinity 2.0, just improved and overall better... At first it will be 144 most likely at launch but it will go down to 129$ and Trinity price drop for each model will most likely be 10$... Also Dual Graphics with Radeon HD 7xxx series, thats awsome man.

 

[inf64]

The point is the new stepping(what richland effectively is) is enabling >4Ghz CPU core operation with GPU operating >840Mhz,all within 65W envelope. That's pretty significant upgrade ,even though the core is effectively the same.
BTW BSN is running a new article on Kaveri improvements. Looks very promising.
GDDR5 is mentioned in AMD's documents and it looks like we may finally see 3 module APUs . This would effectively put an end to i3 since IPC+power+GPU improvements would be too good to recommend i3 Haswell over 3M Kaveri. Fun times ahead. I expect that Apple will be using Kaveri in variety of their products. It's just too good to pass up.

 

[Vesku]

I thought this was the consensus when the 8300 series arrived. 2500K MultiThreading < 8350 MT < 3770K MT, the only "faster than a 3770K" serious claims I've seen have been OCed 8350 vs stock 3770K. Which imo is a bit silly.

 

[grimpr]

One more week and A10 6700 comes . Let me see intel fans recommending i3 against a 65W 3.7/4.1Ghz QC with 850Mhz 384SP Radeon GPU onboard(with 2133Mhz official support). Price should be in the line of previous 5700,only value will be higher.

Core i3 is dead, even Haswell cant save it.

 

[Sleepingforest]

One more week and A10 6700 comes . Let me see intel fans recommending i3 against a 65W 3.7/4.1Ghz QC with 850Mhz 384SP Radeon GPU onboard(with 2133Mhz official support). Price should be in the line of previous 5700,only value will be higher.

If that is true, then I will say congratulations to AMD for finally surpassing Intel in the low end market.

I mean, if we look at Haswell, Intel is only supposed to perform per-clock performance by 3-5%. Right now, Intel is only leading the low end (by which I mean the i3-3220 against the A10 5800K) by roughly 10-20%, depending on the test. If Kaveri can pull off a 20% improvement per clock, then AMD will have tied or beaten Intel's next generation.

This makes me hopeful that we will see more competition in the CPU market, starting from the low end and going up. If AMD markets Kaveri right, they could steal the mainstream user market (people who mainly use internet apps and maybe play a game or 2 at medium). Who knows what might happen from there?

Now, I don't think AMD will magically overtake Intel. But this is a good start into an era of lower prices and faster advancement due to competition. At the very least, I hope it'll push Intel to really work on Broadwell to stay ahead or keep up.

 

[AnandThenMan]

I expect that Apple will be using Kaveri in variety of their products. It's just too good to pass up.

I will believe it when I see it.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Core i3 is dead, even Haswell cant save it.

You cant seriously think the i3 is dead. I am sure it will serve the purpose of 90+ percent of the market quite well.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I agree, I registered couple of hours ago and I saw some other forums and everybody citing the flagship AMD or the APU's with K and not the non K and dont know much about them.

FX 8320 is almost as FX 8350, its 10-20$ cheaper and its sweet for the price...

When somebody mentions A10 5800k or A8 5600k and say they have TDP of 100watts well if they don't plan to overclock at all they could get a A10 5700 or A8 5500 that have TDP of 65watts or just tweak their K siblings to act as non k counterparts...

Also too bad that there is no Athlon 2 X4 750k in USA that costs 81$ compared to Intel G2120 that is 100$. I think it would kill G2120, since its a quadcore

-edit-
That price can only happen in America, America, America... Wow

Athlon 2 x4 750k is a A10 without a GPU, just saying...

What's the difference between an x4 750K and an FX4300? Just the socket and slight clockspeed differences? L3?

 

[Bearach]

I'm downsizing from 4 computers to 2. One to remain is my FX8350 at 4.6Ghz(21x219) on my Asus Sabertooth Rev Mb. cooled with a Corsair H100 with 16G of DDR3 and a GTX680.

I have 2 I5-2500k rigs and will be parting out both 2500ks and decided to keep the Asus P8Z68-V Pro Gen 3 mb and sell the AsRock Z68Extreme mb. A quick run to the MicroCenter in Philly this past Monday resulted in me buying the coveted I7-3770k for their price of $229.99 (Tax brought ther price to @$244). I swapped out the 2500k (now for sale see for sale forum) and installed the 3770k and OC'd it to 4.4Ghz (44x100) I have 16G DDR3 1866 ram, 2 EVGA GTX670 FTWs in SLI. CPU cooling is a ThermalTake Water 2.0 Pro.

I have written extensively about the FX8350 and how it is a decent chip that is close to the 2500k. Frankly the 3770k is in another league.

I have seen some charts where the FX8350 appears to be close to the 3770k. If you read the "fine print" it is an OC'd 8350 at @4.6Ghz. Trust me, if you OC the 3770k to 4.4Ghz like I have it is FASTER. PERIOD.

This is not meant to bash the FX8350. Having both rigs to compare, the 3770k is faster. Experiencing it first hand is truly a treat. I'll keep you posted.

My impressions of the 8350 have been quite good. I've enjoyed this chip, and outside of encoding, I've never seen it above 40% usage. It multitasks much more fluid than the Phenom II I had (not a single stutter or momentary halt).

I really can't see why anyone would say Phenom II is better in anyway, cause it in no way is. Power usage has actually gone down for me (putting less money in electric).

I haven't tried the 3770K but in my country it's in a TOTALLY different price bracket, and here the 3570k is more expensive £165 vs. £149. In My opinion Microcenter, should NEVER be used to justify one CPU over another.

I'll be looking to under-volt this CPU to see where it can go, however I will warn people with ASUS boards to be wary of the EPU function. I found that the system "seemed" stable, but in Prime95 it had errors while that was enabled in the BIOS.

 

[Markfw]

Calling me "your" moderator is kind, I'm honored and flattered, but it is a generous over-estimate of my stature in this sub-forum

Mark is your CPU mod (he is THE primary mod in CPU), and ViRGE is your on-the-beat active moderator in a day-to-day capacity.

They both put the word "super" into "super-moderator" and this place would fall apart from spambots and flamewars without their volunteer time and effort to keep it running as smoothly as it does.

Someone should take up a paypal collection for Mark and ViRGE, send your donations to me and I'll be sure to see they get sent on to the mods. (less a paltry miniscule administrative fee reserved for my processing efforts of course , say 60-80% LOL)

Back on topic, someone asked me the other day in a pm to summarize my feelings about the FX-8350 versus the i7-3770K and here is what I had to say (pasted from the pm):

Thanks IDC and Virge.

FIRST, to all who didn't know, I have had open heart surgery, and been unable to spend as much time moderating as of late, and Virge has stepped in to help, and his efforts should be acknowledged by all. IDC is over both of us, and of late has been posting as a member a lot.

So lets not dwell on this issue, and just post more things relevant, and while I can't post more relevant information, I can see from my 6234 server experience, benchmarks and the like, that from a price/performance perspective, the 8350 and 3770k are in a fight to the finish, some winning each of every benchmark or value. So just keep posting anything relevant, as I have (the Linux comment).

And I get 100k PPD from my 24 cores on my 6234's and only 31k ppd from my 3930k (but they do have the bidadv bonus points)