My life sucks.

[amish]

unwritten rule #8: mosh is always right.

P&N <------

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: musha shugyo

Originally posted by: Phokus
The original intent of the military was to defend the country. All this bs about 'defending allies' is what i'm talking about. There's a reason the DoD is called the "Department of Defense" and not "the department of foreign entanglements that have nothing to do with defending america". The only person with a weak argument is you, which is why i'm calling you out. "kill and destroy things" :roll:

"peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none - Thomas Jefferson"

And how does one defend without killing and destroying the opposing force? The purpose of the military is to kill and destroy. I'm not arguing with you over how it should be used, simply stating that the point of any military is to decimate the opposing force through killing and destroying.

You can debate the original intent of the first professional American military all you want (Just remember, they killed and destroyed thing owned by the British in an attempt to assert that the land was rightfully theirs, independent of England. This is not defense.). That doesn't change the purpose of a military.

You're saying the PURPOSE of the military is to kill/destroy. I'm saying that's just an action they use to achieve their purpose (which should be to defend the country.

And i would lump freeing yourself from an oppressive tyrant who took away your God given liberty the same as defending oneself.

 

[JDub02]

You're not the only one. I'm ineligble for military service because of my eyesight as well. I'm corrected to 20/20, but my uncorrected is too bad.

I always wanted to be an Air Force pilot. Things were going good until they found out I wear contacts.

 

[SonnyDaze]

Originally posted by: AFSCrazy
Uhm, sorry this thread blew up, thanks to those who have offered some input though, it's really appreciated.

Hey dude good luck and thanks for being man enough to step up. Being a former Marine myself I think it's an honorable thing you are trying to do. Semper Fi. :thumbsup:

 

[musha shugyo]

Originally posted by: Phokus
You're saying the PURPOSE of the military is to kill/destroy. I'm saying that's just an action they use to achieve their purpose (which should be to defend the country.

And i would lump freeing yourself from an oppressive tyrant who took away your God given liberty the same as defending oneself.

Let's assume defense of a country as the ultimate goal. You have diplomats whose purpose is to defend through discussions, spies whose purpose is to collect information, and the military whose purpose is to kill and destroy invading forces.

Let's assume attack of a country as the ultimate goal. You have diplomats whose purpose is to negotiate through discussions, spies whose purpose is to collect information and subvert, and the military whose purpose is to kill and destroy defending forces.

The goal can change, the purpose remains the same.

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: musha shugyo

Originally posted by: Phokus
You're saying the PURPOSE of the military is to kill/destroy. I'm saying that's just an action they use to achieve their purpose (which should be to defend the country.

And i would lump freeing yourself from an oppressive tyrant who took away your God given liberty the same as defending oneself.

Let's assume defense of a country as the ultimate goal. You have diplomats whose purpose is to defend through discussions, spies whose purpose is to collect information, and the military whose purpose is to kill and destroy invading forces.

Let's assume attack of a country as the ultimate goal. You have diplomats whose purpose is to negotiate through discussions, spies whose purpose is to collect information and subvert, and the military whose purpose is to kill and destroy defending forces.

The goal can change, the purpose remains the same.

If what you're saying is correct, then the military would be serving no purpose when we're not fighting any wars.

I think that's incorrect. The military's purpose is protection of our country. Even in peacetime, their mere existence protects us from those that would attack us if they saw us as weak.

So if the military can accomplish it's goals even in peacetime, without firing a single shot, then I dont see how killing and destroying is a good summary of it's duties. In my eyes, a strong military does more by preventing conflict than it does by actually fighting.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: yowolabi

Originally posted by: musha shugyo

Originally posted by: Phokus
You're saying the PURPOSE of the military is to kill/destroy. I'm saying that's just an action they use to achieve their purpose (which should be to defend the country.

And i would lump freeing yourself from an oppressive tyrant who took away your God given liberty the same as defending oneself.

Let's assume defense of a country as the ultimate goal. You have diplomats whose purpose is to defend through discussions, spies whose purpose is to collect information, and the military whose purpose is to kill and destroy invading forces.

Let's assume attack of a country as the ultimate goal. You have diplomats whose purpose is to negotiate through discussions, spies whose purpose is to collect information and subvert, and the military whose purpose is to kill and destroy defending forces.

The goal can change, the purpose remains the same.

If what you're saying is correct, then the military would be serving no purpose when we're not fighting any wars.

I think that's incorrect. The military's purpose is protection of our country. Even in peacetime, their mere existence protects us from those that would attack us if they saw us as weak.

So if the military can accomplish it's goals even in peacetime, without firing a single shot, then I dont see how killing and destroying is a good summary of it's duties. In my eyes, a strong military does more by preventing conflict than it does by actually fighting.

This is the correct response.

IN FACT, This is what the DoD's mission statement is:

Mission

The mission of the Department of Defense is to provide the military forces needed to deter war and to protect the security of our country. The department's headquarters is at the Pentagon.

*END OF DISCUSSION*

http://www.defenselink.mil/admin/about.html

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: jlbenedict
Join the border patrol

Control illegal immigration..

You'll be serviing our country very well

..:thumbsup:

 

[everman]

If you're near-sighted (can't see far well) you can always work in a submarine.

On a more realistic note, you could get an engineering degree and sign up to do mechanical work, perhaps end up working in the defense industry.

 

[zinfamous]

This thread needs a lock.

GL OP. While I believe that serving the current Administration is not serving America, I hope you can find your way in--if that's what you really want to do.

 

[huberm]

Originally posted by: musha shugyo

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: musha shugyo

Originally posted by: Phokus
Yeah, well, right now is not exactly the best time to get into the military. Consider yourself lucky.

Yea, the best time to join the military is during peacetime. That's when they need you the most. :roll:

No, the best time to serve in the military is when there isn't a moron commander in chief who uses the military as a pawn to invade a country when there's no threat against the United States. The point of the military is to defend America, not to wage unnecessary wars.

When you're a soldier, the reason for deployment doesn't matter. There is no difference between shooting Bosnians, Iraqis, Iranians, Afghanis, etc. They all die the same. You do the job you were assigned to do, and you do it right. Hang up your morals, and realize the the purpose of the military is to kill and destroy, and let the higher ups worry about the reasons why.

As a member of the armed forces, I would consider it a treasonable offense to not stand up for what you think is right.

 

[TXHokie]

Originally posted by: everman
If you're near-sighted (can't see far well) you can always work in a submarine.

On a more realistic note, you could get an engineering degree and sign up to do mechanical work, perhaps end up working in the defense industry.

That's exactly what I did - got rejected by AF and Navy with bad eye vision so went to school and got engineering degree and worked contract DoD defense weapons program for a while. It's not high profile frontline stuffs but felt I'm helping in other ways.

 

[DVK916]

Please seek psychiatric help now. You must have a chemical imbalance if you want to go to Iraq and fight now.

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: shortylickens
I dont know about the other branches, but when I left the Navy last year they were trying to get from 400,000 down to about 340,000.
They still have a little way to go on dumping current enlistees.
They can afford to be VERY picky on new recruits right now.

I think it may the same for the others. Fighting a so-called war takes money, and a congressmans brother-in-law takes priority over 100,000 warriors.

How can the military afford to be picky when they are desperate to send more troops to Iraq. We are on the brink of a draft.

 

[musha shugyo]

Originally posted by: huberm
As a member of the armed forces, I would consider it a treasonable offense to not stand up for what you think is right.

As a member of the armed forces, I believe that it is dangerous for people to start standing up for what they think is right when "what is right" differs from person to person.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Do you want a civilian government job?

 

[TehMac]

Originally posted by: jhayx7
Word of advice. Go Air Force.

If you can't get enlisted, try out for the police academy and then see if you can get a position with the UN Peacekeepers.

Nah dude, working for the UN is working for a bunch of cows. Working for police is not what he wants. Going second best is not the way at all.
Air Force will definitely not be the way because they require really good vision. My advice is getting a Lasik, if you really want to do it. Ask for help from your recruiter, see what they say about it. And joining the services is awesome dude, I wish you the best of luck finding a solution, and when you have, best of luck out in the field.

 

[novasatori]

Originally posted by: AFSCrazy
Uhm, sorry this thread blew up, thanks to those who have offered some input though, it's really appreciated.

have you tried army/air national guard?

maybe see if you can e-mail a commander at one of the bases and see if he can help you in getting a waiver or something.

help from someone important on the inside will be immensely helpful, especially if you're as passionate about it as you say you are, I think it would be easy to get someone on the inside to help.

 

[JackRipper]

Originally posted by: musha shugyo

Originally posted by: huberm
As a member of the armed forces, I would consider it a treasonable offense to not stand up for what you think is right.

As a member of the armed forces, I believe that it is dangerous for people to start standing up for what they think is right when "what is right" differs from person to person.

Very true... sure you can stand up for what u believe to a certain extent but at the end of the day u still have to follow orders, w/o it there is no unit cohesion.

Originally posted by: novasatori

Originally posted by: AFSCrazy
Uhm, sorry this thread blew up, thanks to those who have offered some input though, it's really appreciated.

have you tried army/air national guard?

maybe see if you can e-mail a commander at one of the bases and see if he can help you in getting a waiver or something.

help from someone important on the inside will be immensely helpful, especially if you're as passionate about it as you say you are, I think it would be easy to get someone on the inside to help.

once a person is flagged, its very difficult to get any kind of waivers that are admissable... this is to prevent personal injury and injury to others. I am really sure all the recruiters would love to find ways to get the recruit in but there is only so much the recruiter can do legally.

@OP ... If you really want to join the armed forces, try writing to your congressmen.

 

[PowerEngineer]

Originally posted by: musha shugyo
When you're a soldier, the reason for deployment doesn't matter. There is no difference between shooting Bosnians, Iraqis, Iranians, Afghanis, etc. They all die the same. You do the job you were assigned to do, and you do it right. Hang up your morals, and realize the the purpose of the military is to kill and destroy, and let the higher ups worry about the reasons why.

This isn't a bad description of what is required in military service. Members of the military need to put "following orders" above their own judgement and even their sense of self-preservation. You can not have an effective military force without this kind of forfeture of individuality. Giving recruits that mind-set is a big part of "basic training".

That said, IMHO it does have a down side. I believe we are better served as a society when everyone thinks things through for themselves and acts according to their own conclusions. I certainly wouldn't want the people around me to continue to "hang up" their morals or "let the higher ups worry about the reasons why" after they've left the service. Sometimes I wonder if there should be some "basic untraining" at the end of military service.

To the OP:

I'm sorry that you are being frustrated in your efforts to join the military. Be careful not to jump at any chance that does come along without considering if it fits what you really want to do. You don't want or need to be miserable while serving your country. You might want to write down the kinds of things that you see yourself doing in the military as a reference. This list might also help you find similar work outside the military if they can't see past your eyesight issue (pun intended). Others have mentioned service organizations as possible alternatives; I'll toss in the Peace Corp. It's serving your country in a different way.

Good luck!

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: shortylickens
I dont know about the other branches, but when I left the Navy last year they were trying to get from 400,000 down to about 340,000.
They still have a little way to go on dumping current enlistees.
They can afford to be VERY picky on new recruits right now.

I think it may the same for the others. Fighting a so-called war takes money, and a congressmans brother-in-law takes priority over 100,000 warriors.

How can the military afford to be picky when they are desperate to send more troops to Iraq. We are on the brink of a draft.

No, we arent.
Soldiers and sailors cost money, even draftees.
We were used to having a budget for a relatively large standing force that didnt see much action.
Wars cost money, you have a lot more civilians doing things for the DoD and a LOT more supplies being used up. Ammo included.
The reason they are cutting back on bodies (at least with the Navy) is to make money available in other areas.

Not to mention a bunch of stateside shore commands that really didnt do all that much to begin with.
I suspect this issue has been covered in P&N many times, but the DoD buys a lot of goods and services it doesnt always need so it can justify its budget. If we dont use it all up each fiscal year we risk getting less next year.
Now we are in a "war" and we are burning up money fast. Time to be efficient.
We wont be drafting. Bush can't do it and congress wont let him.

My personal opinion is that this is the right thing anyway. We really cant accomplish any more objectives over there with the way we are and they way they are. Best to keep it from spiraling down even worse.
But that is, of course, my own personal opinion.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Check out the Coast Guard also.

Benefits equivalent to the Armed Services.

Putting your life on the line for others is a tradition there as well.

 

[chambersc]

You can serve your country in other facets than being cannon fodder. I for one am going into the legal sector to quench my thirst for national duty.

 

[TehMac]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Yeah, well, right now is not exactly the best time to get into the military. Consider yourself lucky.

A USMC Motto: First to fight and fit to fight.

Your motto: I'm going to save my sorry ass first, and bash everyone serving to make myself feel better.

Originally posted by: chambersc
You can serve your country in other facets than being cannon fodder. I for one am going into the legal sector to quench my thirst for national duty.

Why do you have to degrade others by calling them cannon fodder? These men are hardly such, but men who are skilled, and don't get killed easily. Rangers, Marines, Naval Corpsmen, all have a job and if they do it right, they triumph. They're doing their job as best as they can, and they're doing it right. You're not helping, acting like a stuck up prig.
And suing people doesn't count as national duty.
Maybe you didn't mean it offensively in which case I apologize, but if you did....go to hell.

 

[Jadow]

Originally posted by: jhayx7
Word of advice. Go Air Force.

If you can't get enlisted, try out for the police academy and then see if you can get a position with the UN Peacekeepers.

Commandant Eric Lasard will get you in the Police Academy.

 

[dfuze]

I haven't read all the entries, but how about the National Guard?