My LLano A4-3300 Review [Old thread - necro]

[waltchan]

Waltchan, did you see this Dell yet?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Dell-Blac...25663551323514481556&affillinktype=10&veh=aff

I saw this went down to $99.99 on Black Friday before. This device is a rip-off in price. No processor to upgrade or downgrade, and the ECS FM1 A4-3300 combo beats it too easily.

I did better with the Acer i7-4790 desktop I picked up from Costco for $450, sold the processor itself for $285 and 8GB RAM stick for $42, and replaced it with Celeron G1850 for $25 I picked up, ending up only $145 after all parts sold. Nice try, Walmart.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Hey, any good deals on case + PSU to house these bad boys?

Best I've seen is something like $37 free shipping for an iMicro case + PSU from mp3superstore (SuperBiiz) on ebay. But I've had fried hardware from iMicro case PSUs before too. So, sort of a tradeoff.

Had good luck with Apex / SuperCase, mid-tower micro-ATX cases with 300W PSU (two SATA leads, as well as molex / floppy / 24-pin / 4-pin). Haven't had any DOAs or dead hardware. Newegg reviews of that PSU are fairly positive as well.

Managed to snag five of them from Directron.com before they changed over their web site, for $32 ea shipped. (Marked down to $19.99, plus shipping.)

Edit: Someone has "new (other)" Biostar A75 FM1 boards available for $51.98 shipped. #351645057472

Of course, who in their right mind would spend $50 on an FM1 A75 mobo, when they could get a newer, better-supported, Haswell platform H81 board for a similar price. (Or even an entry-level Skylake H110 board.)

 

[waltchan]

Edit: Someone has "new (other)" Biostar A75 FM1 boards available for $51.98 shipped. #351645057472

Of course, who in their right mind would spend $50 on an FM1 A75 mobo, when they could get a newer, better-supported, Haswell platform H81 board for a similar price. (Or even an entry-level Skylake H110 board.)

A75 FM1 boards were a little older and ended production earlier than A55, so sellers can charge prices higher if they wish. When Trinity FM2 first came out, board makers offered A55 FM1s as a cheaper solution to A55 FM2s. They skipped A75 FM1.

ECS was lucky enough to produce surplus number of A55 FM1 boards, anticipating it would sell better than FM2 for $50 less, at that time. Turns out it didn't and sold them as a loss to us today.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Do you think that those Biostar A75 FM1 boards would OC better than the ECS A55 boards?

 

[waltchan]

Do you think that those Biostar A75 FM1 boards would OC better than the ECS A55 boards?

It probably does, but the extra price makes it inefficient. I have a Biostar TA970 ATX AM3 board that overclocks pretty well. Biostar FM1 boards also lack UEFI installation, Windows 10 support, and secure boot mode.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, I received my A4-3420 APU(s). This time, not in a priority box, so no postage due.

Also received some more ECS motherboards.

Need case +PSU to build an overclocking test rig.

 

[waltchan]

Well, I received my A4-3420 APU(s). This time, not in a priority box, so no postage due.

Also received some more ECS motherboards.

Need case +PSU to build an overclocking test rig.

That's great to hear. For overclocking the proper way, if using a 1600 (or 800 MHz) memory stick, set RAM speed manually to 1333 (or 667 MHz shows in BIOS) first. Then set 105, 106, 107, and etc., gradually and slowly, until blue-screen or it cannot boot.

My response from other thread you complained about me:

What misleading facts??? I try to describe my experience as truthful as I can with good forecast predictions, despite I know a bunch of people here like to defame me and don't like how I write due to my obsession on obsolete CPUs and motherboards they're not interested. That's their own problem, and I like what I do. If they have a lot of income, they are free to discuss Core i7 every second and anytime. I'm on a limited income here, so I grew up with Celeron and Sempron all my life, which I know is a smaller crowd here.

Did you try changing memory RAM one speed backward prior to ECS overclocking? If you use a 1600 (800) MHz stick, set memory speed manually to to 1333 (667) first. Then gradually increase between 105, 106, 107.... up to 115 slowly. Sometimes more than 115 depending on memory quality. That's the #1 rule for bus-overclocking safely. Maybe not 3.1 GHz, and I never said 3.1 GHz exact. None of ECS boards tell me the exact number, more closer to 2.9-3.0 GHz for sure that I have.

Let me know what number you get in ECS before it turns blue-screen?

 

[VirtualLarry]

My response from other thread you complained about me:

What misleading facts??? I try to describe my experience as truthful as I can with good forecast predictions

Then you should label them a forecast or prediction. Saying, these $27.99 ECS mobos will increase in value to $60 new shipped, instead of saying I predict or may is, IMHO, very misleading. And intentionally misleading people is grounds for banning on this forum.

, despite I know a bunch of people here like to defame me and don't like how I write due to my obsession on obsolete CPUs and motherboards they're not interested. That's their own problem, and I like what I do. If they have a lot of income, they are free to discuss Core i7 every second and anytime. I'm on a limited income here, so I grew up with Celeron and Sempron all my life, which I know is a smaller crowd here.

I don't think that the topics (budget CPUs) are an issue. Just how you present some of your "predictions", without labeling them a prediction.

Did you try changing memory RAM one speed backward prior to ECS overclocking? If you use a 1600 (800) MHz stick, set memory speed manually to to 1333 (667) first. Then gradually increase between 105, 106, 107.... up to 115 slowly. Sometimes more than 115 depending on memory quality. That's the #1 rule for bus-overclocking safely. Maybe not 3.1 GHz, and I never said 3.1 GHz exact. None of ECS boards tell me the exact number, more closer to 2.9-3.0 GHz for sure that I have.

Let me know what number you get in ECS before it turns blue-screen?

Yes, I tried setting the memory clock downward one setting. I tried setting bus clock to 115, no POST, had to clear CMOS. At above 105, I had to switch to IDE mode (not good for SSD performance), and above 106-107, I had graphical glitches on-screen on Win7 64-bit.

 

[waltchan]

Yes, I tried setting the memory clock downward one setting. I tried setting bus clock to 115, no POST, had to clear CMOS. At above 105, I had to switch to IDE mode (not good for SSD performance), and above 106-107, I had graphical glitches on-screen on Win7 64-bit.

Do you have any cheap Hynix PC3-12800U RAMs lying around in your storage bin? That's what I'm using. Sometimes the cheap RAMs, originally found in OEM PCs, work better in overclocking due to lack of XMP profile, and the timings are looser. I was able to go 109 stable, luckily. Above 110 I get blue screen. I believe that's closer to 2.8GHz. I think I can go above 110, but I need several other non-XMP RAMs to do it, like Samsung, Elpida, Micron, and Kingston.

In fact, I'm typing with this ECS board w/ A4-3300 right now at 109 number for the night.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Hmm. Well, I bought several Kingston HyperX (Fury?) DDR3-1866 8GB sticks when they were advertised on the front page of ebay from antonline for $30 ea.

I pulled out one of the ECS A55 boards from the first shipment, pulled out an A4-3420, and a heatsink, and put them all together.

Just going into the advanced section of the BIOS, I can get up to 112 and still be able to "Save Settings and Reset". I can cold-boot 113 and maybe 114, but then I can't reboot.

I added a 30GB SATAII SSD (OCZ) and tried booting off of a Win10 AIO USB stick. (At 112)

I got the Win10 installer to boot, but it couldn't find any drives. I thought that maybe the SSD was in MBR format, so I went into DISKPART and did a SELECT DISK 0 and a CLEAN, but evidently, I only wiped my USB install drive.

Now I have to spend another half hour downloading and creating another one, using the MS media creation tool.

Oh yeah, I set the RAM to 1333 and (667 setting) and manually entered the primary timings (2T, 10, 11, 10, 30). Left the sub-timings on auto.

 

[waltchan]

Hmm. Well, I bought several Kingston HyperX (Fury?) DDR3-1866 8GB sticks when they were advertised on the front page of ebay from antonline for $30 ea.

I pulled out one of the ECS A55 boards from the first shipment, pulled out an A4-3420, and a heatsink, and put them all together.

Just going into the advanced section of the BIOS, I can get up to 112 and still be able to "Save Settings and Reset". I can cold-boot 113 and maybe 114, but then I can't reboot.

I added a 30GB SATAII SSD (OCZ) and tried booting off of a Win10 AIO USB stick. (At 112)

I got the Win10 installer to boot, but it couldn't find any drives. I thought that maybe the SSD was in MBR format, so I went into DISKPART and did a SELECT DISK 0 and a CLEAN, but evidently, I only wiped my USB install drive.

Now I have to spend another half hour downloading and creating another one, using the MS media creation tool.

Oh yeah, I set the RAM to 1333 and (667 setting) and manually entered the primary timings (2T, 10, 11, 10, 30). Left the sub-timings on auto.

The 1866 RAMs are tricky to overclock. I have problems setting the right timing in ECS A960M-M4 AM3 boards. I put in one Patriot 1866 RAM, it reads it at 1066 in auto. Sometimes 1333 with ADATA RAMs. ECS boards seem to like the cheap RAMs better, like Hynix and Samsung, due to looser timing. Hynix and Samsung RAMs always read at 1600 instantly with 11 CAS at auto mode. It's better to use a 1600 stick max as this processor can accept up to 1600 max.

Based on your numbers, looks like you're between 109-111 stable-zone. If you put in A4-3420, you can reach up to 3.2 GHz if you can get all the RAM timings right (maybe with the Hynix RAM).

At least you're making progress.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Are you using a HDD or SSD, and are you in AHCI mode, or IDE mode?

 

[waltchan]

Are you using a HDD or SSD, and are you in AHCI mode, or IDE mode?

HDD, AHCI, and C&Q enabled, as well as setting OS to Windows 8 and secure boot enabled. That's Windows 10 ready here. Disable C&Q may give you extra boost, haven't tried yet.

ECS boards are the hardest ones to overclock in industry. Be patient... It never tells you what GHz speed it's running, displays 800 MHz RAM instead at 1600MHz, doesn't display what RAM speed you're overclocking, picky on RAM sticks, and there's no auto reset to default if overclocking it wrong.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yeah, I'm using a 30GB OCZ SATAII SSD. If I leave AHCI enabled, I can boot Win10 64-bit at 106, but at 107 I get nothing but "INACCESSABLE_BOOT_DEVICE" BSODs.

I can reboot BIOS / UEFI at 112, so I tried setting it to IDE mode, and I'm attempting to re-install Win10 that way, at 112. Memory at 1333.

Edit: Win10 64-bit Home installed and ran beautifully at 112 and IDE. You were right, waltchan, all devices were detected and installed by Win10.

 

[waltchan]

Yeah, I'm using a 30GB OCZ SATAII SSD. If I leave AHCI enabled, I can boot Win10 64-bit at 106, but at 107 I get nothing but "INACCESSABLE_BOOT_DEVICE" BSODs.

I can reboot BIOS / UEFI at 112, so I tried setting it to IDE mode, and I'm attempting to re-install Win10 that way, at 112. Memory at 1333.

IDE at 112 stable. That's three more than I have at 109 in AHCI mode. Try using a mechanical hard drive.

 

[VirtualLarry]

My question is, are there "holes" in the bus clock settings? Someone mentioned something about dividers. If there are bands of settings for the bus clock that are too high for the chipset / SATA / RAM, but then even higher settings for the CPU clock, but the rest of the stuff is still OK, I would like to hear about it.

If so, what bus clocks should I test? I tried 124, that didn't work either.

Edit: I wish I could afford more of these combos this month. They make a fairly nifty client non-gaming rig (web browsing, etc.). Seems snappy, with 8GB DDR3 RAM (1866 running at 1500?), and an SSD, and Win10 64-bit. Especially with the 12% overclock. (Not sure if I would sell a rig with that level of OC to a client though. Maybe 105 bus clock - 5%. Maybe 0%. )

Either way, these are a deal. Everything on the mobo works in Win10, that I've seen. (No unknown devices in Device Manager.) Once you connect to the internet and start downloading updates, it does install a video driver. (Though, no control panel? Not sure.)

 

[waltchan]

Edit: I wish I could afford more of these combos this month. They make a fairly nifty client non-gaming rig (web browsing, etc.). Seems snappy, with 8GB DDR3 RAM (1866 running at 1500?), and an SSD, and Win10 64-bit. Especially with the 12% overclock. (Not sure if I would sell a rig with that level of OC to a client though. Maybe 105 bus clock - 5%. Maybe 0%. )

Either way, these are a deal. Everything on the mobo works in Win10, that I've seen. (No unknown devices in Device Manager.) Once you connect to the internet and start downloading updates, it does install a video driver. (Though, no control panel? Not sure.)

Don't worry, I predict this ECS FM1 combo deal will be here for a few months. I plan to do a post refresh each month through SlickDeals.

After much careful evaluation, this board only has a guaranteed overclocking function of up to 106 max at AHCI mode. Problem I found is the BIOS design itself. Above 107, the BIOS locks out any overclocking function and prevents your hard drive to boot. Only IDE mode avoids any lockout.

I just built my second one last night with A4-3300, but with only 2GB 1600 RAM and 320GB HHD this time. It actually works pretty okay, to my surprise. RAM is currently overclocked at 1700 MHz level, I think this good speed is okay with only 2GB setup.

 

[waltchan]

I just built an identical twin today, an ECS A58F2P-M2 FM2 board with $15 A4-4000 and only 2GB RAM. Let's see how it stacks up with A4-3300.

 

[VirtualLarry]

How's the FM2 "twin" doing, waltchan? Did you manage to OC it at all? (I don't think I've messed with bus-OC on FM2 yet.)

 

[waltchan]

How's the FM2 "twin" doing, waltchan? Did you manage to OC it at all? (I don't think I've messed with bus-OC on FM2 yet.)

It's actually pitiful, working on this A4-4000 right now. :thumbsdown: APU is running 100% all the time. While downloading updates with external HHD file transfer, it took 8 minutes to open up Microsoft Edge. A4-3300 is always less than 3 minutes.

The ECS FM2 board doesn't offer any bus-overclocking, it's stuck at up to 3.2GHz turbo max. It's taking me 2 hours longer than with A4-3300. Due to Bulldozer's stupid clustered 2-thread design into only one core, it's slower to respond to any multitasking with only 2GB RAM. In addition, A4-4000's 1333 memory RAM speed than 1600 in A4-3300 is another joke here.

 

[VirtualLarry]

it took 8 minutes to open up Microsoft Edge.

it's slower to respond to any multitasking with only 2GB RAM.

1) Get an SSD
2) Good luck running Windows update with only 2GB RAM

 

[Magic Carpet]

It's actually pitiful, working on this A4-4000 right now. :thumbsdown: APU is running 100% all the time. While downloading updates with external HHD file transfer, it took 8 minutes to open up Microsoft Edge. A4-3300 is always less than 3 minutes.

The ECS FM2 board doesn't offer any bus-overclocking, it's stuck at up to 3.2GHz turbo max. It's taking me 2 hours longer than with A4-3300. Due to Bulldozer's stupid clustered 2-thread design into only one core, it's slower to respond to any multitasking with only 2GB RAM. In addition, A4-4000's 1333 memory RAM speed than 1600 in A4-3300 is another joke here.

Maybe it's time to bin this rubbish?

I was so damn happy when I got rid of my A4-5000 APU. I know the feeling

1) Get an SSD

Won't help much. Slow CPU is still a slow CPU.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Won't help much. Slow CPU is still a slow CPU.

To take 8 minutes to open a browser???

Edit: That's one reason, even with a slightly slower CPU like an A4-3300, I still equip my builds with 4-8GB of RAM, and an SSD - so that they don't bog down.

 

[Magic Carpet]

To take 8 minutes to open a browser???

Clearly, it's not just a disk IO issue.

Edit: That's one reason, even with a slightly slower CPU like an A4-3300, I still equip my builds with 4-8GB of RAM, and an SSD - so that they don't bog down.

Windows 10 x64 works great with mechanical drives, fyi. After a while, Windows caches most things into RAM and the system becomes snappy enough. Sleep/resume works great too.

Of course, I tried a decent Intel 530 SSD 240GB drive with my A4-5000 and while it was faster in some areas, it barely made it any more usable in actual day-to-day work/tasks, like web browsing. Back then, I would of gladely accepted disk bottleneck over cpu bottleneck, but I couldn't, so I got rid of it. And glad that I did.

Cpu > Ram > Disk. Only in ram limited situations (<= 4 gigs) I would make it Cpu > Disk > Ram. >=6 gigs is plenty for hdds, non-gaming scenarios, even with an average spinner, ~14ms seek, ~100mb r/w. I equip all builds with 16 gigs of ram minimum (2x8) anyway. And one can always upgrade to an SSD later... quite an easy upgrade actually, plenty of freeware available to help make that move. That dog slow CPU/platform.... you can't help it much, really.

 

[waltchan]

To take 8 minutes to open a browser???

Edit: That's one reason, even with a slightly slower CPU like an A4-3300, I still equip my builds with 4-8GB of RAM, and an SSD - so that they don't bog down.

These are cheap, worthless APUs that only earn 2GB of RAM by me. Despite some bog downs, overall, Windows 10 runs much more snappier than Windows 7 with only 2GB max. Why else all the new netbooks are receiving only 2GB and 32GB SSD. More OEM PC makers offering 2GBs again than a few years ago, after testing out it's not terrible as they thought.