My long-term thoughts on my second anniversary with my 13" MBP

[Don Vito Corleone]

I've heard very good things about AppleCare as well. Would you say that they're willing to repair/replace any parts short of actual user error?

Definitely. To some extent the store employees have discretion to help you out even if there is no warranty coverage. In many instances they will replace parts out of warranty or even if the user damaged them through spills or similar issues as well.

When I had a white MacBook, they replaced the entire keyboard and wrist rest when the computer was 3 years out of warranty, because there was a known issue with cracking of the wrist rest - this was a great thing to have when I then turned around and sold the computer.

As long as you live in a place with an Apple store, their service is a great benefit to choosing an Apple over another brand. You don't have to deal with call centers or packing and shipping the computer - just bring it to the store and they will take care of you.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

As long as you live in a place with an Apple store, their service is a great benefit to choosing an Apple over another brand. You don't have to deal with call centers or packing and shipping the computer - just bring it to the store and they will take care of you.

Dell and Lenovo both offer next business day on site support so you don't even have to deal with going to the store.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

If you like Dell but want something nice looking give the XPS 13 a try. I wasn't expecting much but it's actually an incredibly impressive laptop and the carbon fiber exterior looks and feels great.

One of my partners at work has an XPS 13 and it does seem like a very nice machine. I also think the Zenbook Prime looks awesome. I do prefer OSX, though, and of those machines only the Apples offer the ability to run both Windows and OSX. As far as I know nobody has gotten the Dell or Asus to work as Hackintoshes, and even if they do, obviously Hackintoshing is intrinsically a little trickier and more finicky than running OSX on an Apple machine (I have done both).

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Dell and Lenovo both offer next business day on site support so you don't even have to deal with going to the store.

True, but that still requires dealing with a call center, and personally I would rather go to the store than have some random contract technician show up at my house. Also Applecare for a MBA is available on eBay for $140 less than Dell charges for 3 years of on-site coverage on an XPS 13.

Honestly I don't have experience with Dell's on-site service, but in the event of, say, a mainboard failure, I would be skeptical of whether a Dell on-site tech could deal with that as quickly as an Apple store, and even if he did I would think it would require more than one visit. As I said, though, I don't pretend to have firsthand experience with this.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

True, but that still requires dealing with a call center, and personally I would rather go to the store than have some random contract technician show up at my house. Also Applecare for a MBA is available on eBay for $140 less than Dell charges for 3 years of on-site coverage on an XPS 13.

Honestly I don't have experience with Dell's on-site service, but in the event of, say, a mainboard failure, I would be skeptical of whether a Dell on-site tech could deal with that as quickly as an Apple store, and even if he did I would think it would require more than one visit. As I said, though, I don't pretend to have firsthand experience with this.

I've dealt with Dell's on site support several times before and have always had a good experience.

Honestly I would think the Apple store would me much worse at handling a motherboard failure than the Dell techs, I've seen the swap one out in 15 minutes or less.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I've dealt with Dell's on site support several times before and have always had a good experience.

Honestly I would think the Apple store would me much worse at handling a motherboard failure than the Dell techs, I've seen the swap one out in 15 minutes or less.

Good to know. I will probably not be buying any more Dells (I build my own desktops and I will probably always buy Apple laptops), but that's all we have at work so I'm glad the service is good. For what it's worth, when I have owned Dells in the past I've had good experiences with their Indian call centers - much better than my experiences with Lenovo's US-based call centers, actually.

 

[Subyman]

I dabbled with used Macs before finally taking the plunge on a 2012 MBP with Ivy. I received it a few days ago and have been very pleased. I have a few family members that swear by them and I always enjoyed the build quality, especially the G5 I picked up a few years ago. Don't get me wrong, I am a big PC guy. I'm sitting next to a watercooled 800D full of high end gear that I built, but can really respect what Apple has done for the computer market. Without them we'd still be running craptops from the 90's (build quality wise.)

I have had good experiences with HP laptops though. I bought a 16in model 4 years ago and it still looks brand new and runs fantastically. I retired it when the MBP came and will pass it along to a family member.

IMO it is all about how you care for your computer. I never jammed it into a backpack or threw it around. I treat my gear like I'm holding onto a huge wad of cash.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

IMO it is all about how you care for your computer. I never jammed it into a backpack or threw it around. I treat my gear like I'm holding onto a huge wad of cash.

To some extent I agree, but if you travel with a computer it's inevitable that it will experience some trauma. IMO there is no question that MagSafe eliminates a lot of wear and tear (the only major fall my previous Dell laptop ever took happened when my cat knocked over a chair, which in turn pulled the computer to the ground by its power cord - MagSafe would have prevented that), and the unibody design is just so robust in terms of taking the occasional bump or even drop without cracking. Other vendors have adopted the unibody design, but as far as I know MagSafe remains unique to Apple.

It's interesting to me that some people (not you) continue to bash Apple despite the fact that they have come up with so many real innovations in the laptop arena, and their machines are priced very competitively at this point. They brought us the first (at least that I know of) compact, elegant laptop charger, the Chiclet keyboard, MagSafe, the magnetic clasping mechanism (remember the days of kludgy laptop clasps?), the multi-touch touchpad (which as far as I am concerned is by far the most evolved mousing mechanism ever developed for a mobile device), unibody, the backlit keyboard, the ultrabook/MBA, and the Retina display (the name is obviously a marketing thing, but the technology is not).

I too am a longtime PC enthusiast - I bought my first Mac in 2006 after years and years of building and modding PCs - but I think Apple deserves its due and I personally find its laptop offerings to be by far the most appealing on the market.

 

[Tegeril]

I've dealt with Dell's on site support several times before and have always had a good experience.

Honestly I would think the Apple store would me much worse at handling a motherboard failure than the Dell techs, I've seen the swap one out in 15 minutes or less.

I'd have to say that your mileage may vary. Sometimes Dell's on site techs are great, other times not. Sometimes the Apple store will hand you a brand new 'whatever' on the spot, sometimes they fix it right there with replacement hardware they have on hand, sometimes it gets shipped out for repair.

 

[Subyman]

They brought us the first (at least that I know of) compact, elegant laptop charger, the Chiclet keyboard, MagSafe, the magnetic clasping mechanism (remember the days of kludgy laptop clasps?), the multi-touch touchpad (which as far as I am concerned is by far the most evolved mousing mechanism ever developed for a mobile device), unibody, the backlit keyboard, the ultrabook/MBA, and the Retina display (the name is obviously a marketing thing, but the technology is not).

I too am a longtime PC enthusiast - I bought my first Mac in 2006 after years and years of building and modding PCs - but I think Apple deserves its due and I personally find its laptop offerings to be by far the most appealing on the market.

To be fair, Sony introduced the modern laptop chiclet keyboard about 10 years ago. Apple popularized it. In fact, most low end calculators use the same design. They have been around since the 70's . I can't say anything about the other innovations as I am unsure who introduced them, but Apple certainly made most of them popular and made them "work."

It will be interesting to see where the industry goes with the high resolution displays. I can't see myself using one for quite sometime. The internet is not properly formatted for them at the moment. A second or third generation retina display would be the one to buy. I'm wondering if the thunderbolt display will get an up res soon. That could be very interesting.

 

[jihe]

I don't understand your point vis a vis resale. The fact that I can sell a 4-year-old Mac for a high percentage of its purchase price means that it offsets the initial increment in purchase price. I wouldn't buy a 4-year-old laptop at all, much less for $600, but obviously others will, and the very high resale value of Macs offsets their higher initial purchase price.

As for my experience with Lenovo, ergonomics are subjective but after years with the enormous MB/MBP touchpad I find it a huge step backwards in ergonomics every time I use a Thinkpad. Their customer service was just horrific too. Yes, the latter is a case-specific thing but it's not what I expect when I drop $2K on a laptop. The bottom line is I don't feel Lenovo deserves my money. Also, from a customer service perspective nobody else does what Apple does - there are something like 8 Apple stores within 20 miles of my house, and any one of them can service my computer. Beats the hell out of sending it across the country for service.

You've really made my point for me with respect to the car analogy. As I said, I prefer the user experience and feel of my MBP over any other laptop on the market. It's not a matter of reliability, it's a matter of personal preference. My BMWs are certainly LESS reliable than Japanese cars - I just like them better and find them more satisfying to drive.

Obviously each of us should buy whatever we want, but to me price is a secondary issue when I'm talking about something I will be handling for hours every day.

If you actually need to work, ie. type a lot, the trackpoint is superior to the touchpad. There is no comparison.

I think a lot the hate for PC laptop build quality is due to the large amount of brands and models. You really need to buy the business class laptops like the Elitebooks or Thinkpad X, T, W series for good build quality.

 

[jihe]

To be fair, Sony introduced the modern laptop chiclet keyboard about 10 years ago. Apple popularized it. In fact, most low end calculators use the same design. They have been around since the 70's . I can't say anything about the other innovations as I am unsure who introduced them, but Apple certainly made most of them popular and made them "work."

It will be interesting to see where the industry goes with the high resolution displays. I can't see myself using one for quite sometime. The internet is not properly formatted for them at the moment. A second or third generation retina display would be the one to buy. I'm wondering if the thunderbolt display will get an up res soon. That could be very interesting.

Actually chiclet keyboards are a blight, they are cheaper to produce than good laptop keyboards but are much worst to type on. You need to type on a thinkpad to feel the difference. Unfortunately even Lenovo is moving to chiclet, so I will keep using my X200t until it dies (which by the way is running smooth as silk, I use it at least 8 hours per day for over 2 years, often falling asleep with it, letting it fall off the bed to the ground, it is one tough laptop).

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Actually chiclet keyboards are a blight, they are cheaper to produce than good laptop keyboards but are much worst to type on. You need to type on a thinkpad to feel the difference. Unfortunately even Lenovo is moving to chiclet, so I will keep using my X200t until it dies (which by the way is running smooth as silk, I use it at least 8 hours per day for over 2 years, often falling asleep with it, letting it fall off the bed to the ground, it is one tough laptop).

I have used many ThinkPads over several generations, and I have owned a T-series ThinkPad (I returned it after a few days), but they definitely do have pretty nice traditional keyboards if you like that high-effort, firmly-sprung feel, and many people do. I am OK with it and can certainly use one effectively. What's unfortunate IMO is that they pair it with TrackPoint, which is not my cup of tea.

I find Apple's Chiclet keyboards easier to type on, to the extent that I also use one on my Hackintosh desktop. Admittedly some Chiclet keyboards suck (I remember the horrible rubber one on the PC Jr. in the mid-80s), but the Apple ones are great IMO.

 

[dagamer34]

I can't really recommend the 13" Pro anymore when the 13" Air has a far better screen. I suppose there are those who want to use an optical drive or needs massive amounts of space, but I think for most people Air > Pro.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I can't really recommend the 13" Pro anymore when the 13" Air has a far better screen. I suppose there are those who want to use an optical drive or needs massive amounts of space, but I think for most people Air > Pro.

Seriously? The screen on the Air is pretty crappy compared to the MBP 13.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I can't really recommend the 13" Pro anymore when the 13" Air has a far better screen. I suppose there are those who want to use an optical drive or needs massive amounts of space, but I think for most people Air > Pro.

I don't disagree, but I don't like the storage limitations of the Air because my laptop is my primary computer. I'm not sure what I would buy if my computer conked out - probably the 512 GB MBP Retina, but perhaps another 13" MBP or a 13" Air.

 

[dagamer34]

Seriously? The screen on the Air is pretty crappy compared to the MBP 13.

I'm not so sure. The 13" Air doesn't have a cover glass which increases glare on the display (but also contrast, a good thing), and it has significantly better resolution: 1440x900 vs 1280x800. In fact, I don't know of any Windows laptops that ship with such a low resolution display, it's actually a joke in 2012.

As far as image quality between the two displays, I haven't found any definitive evaluation between the two displays. It's easy to cherry pick links to say one is better than the other, but I do not trust anyone's eyes in the evaluation of display quality.

But for your average person, higher resolution is always more helpful.

 

[TheStu]

I'm not so sure. The 13" Air doesn't have a cover glass which increases glare on the display (but also contrast, a good thing), and it has significantly better resolution: 1440x900 vs 1280x800. In fact, I don't know of any Windows laptops that ship with such a low resolution display, it's actually a joke in 2012.

As far as image quality between the two displays, I haven't found any definitive evaluation between the two displays. It's easy to cherry pick links to say one is better than the other, but I do not trust anyone's eyes in the evaluation of display quality.

But for your average person, higher resolution is always more helpful.

I kind of lump 1366*768 (which is higher res) in with 1280*800. And it is an acceptable resolution level, given a certain sized screen, something smaller than 13" I would say. The 15" machines with 1366*768 are the ones that drive me bonkers.

Especially because Windows machines have always been hit or miss (in my experience) with setting that resolution correctly after a reinstall.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I'm not so sure. The 13" Air doesn't have a cover glass which increases glare on the display (but also contrast, a good thing), and it has significantly better resolution: 1440x900 vs 1280x800. In fact, I don't know of any Windows laptops that ship with such a low resolution display, it's actually a joke in 2012.

As far as image quality between the two displays, I haven't found any definitive evaluation between the two displays. It's easy to cherry pick links to say one is better than the other, but I do not trust anyone's eyes in the evaluation of display quality.

But for your average person, higher resolution is always more helpful.

The only thing the Air has going for it is pixel density and that doesn't matter much when you have to sacrifice quality to get it. Shortly after last year's Air came out I compared it side by side with the Pro 13 at the apple store and the display in the Air was obviously inferior, so much so that I wouldn't have ever considered purchasing an Air when the Pro was an option.

 

[Subyman]

I considered the Air, but I needed the processing power of the MBP. I mainly use an external monitor, so the low resolution display doesn't matter at all to me. I would have purchased an iMac, but the new Ivy MBP scored just as well in the programs I use while being cheaper and portable.

The low res screen is pretty ridiculous. Its strange Apple couldn't find a normal middle ground between early 2000's LCD resolutions and retina displays in the interim of upgrading their line.

 

[stlcardinals]

I'd have to say that your mileage may vary. Sometimes Dell's on site techs are great, other times not.

I used to work for a Computer Repair/Consulting Firm for 7 years. I was certified for IBM/Lenovo, HP, Dell, and Apple repair. From what I know, the company had to maintain X number of Techs certified for each program, but that didn't necessarily mean that a certified Tech was going out on the service call. Dell would take forever to pay my company for service provided, so you can just guess where the least paid Techs were used.

I do remember having to carry around a 10-12in long torx screwdriver to remove the heatsinks on some Mac Pros.

 

[QueHuong]

Really happy to hear you're still loving your MBP. I converted from Windows to Mac (13" MBA) this April and enjoy it for the most part, but verdict is still out for longterm. I was just thinking that my Windows PC is reaching the end of its life and was wondering whether or not I should completely switch over to a Mac system with an iMac as the desktop that can dualboot with Windows.

 

[bearxor]

After my 2007 2.4ghz C2D MBP was repaired the last time, it's been rock steady. Honestly, now that I have a SSD in it, I don't feel the urge to upgrade, other than to have a newer, shinier thing. It's still really fast and chugs through just about everything I throw at it just fine. 5 years is an awful long time in the computer world, but I think if you buy high-end to begin with, you get longer life out of it. Sure it costs $2000 when it was new, but I know people who have bought 3 laptops in the span since I've gotten mine so it's pretty much a wash.

 

[sjwaste]

I'm still using my Late 2008 MB Unibody (aluminum) as my main computer. I maxed out the memory (4GB) and added an SSD, but it still looks new and performs better than it did out of the box because of the SSD/memory upgrades. It was under $1000 as a refurb and I'm very happy. The only thing I've replaced is the battery, once, after the old one lost about half of its life after something like 2 years of almost daily discharge/charge.

I'll replace it with another when there is a 13" MBA or 15" in the MBA form factor (thin) with high (at least 1920x1200) res. It doesn't even need to be "retina" but I want 16:10 and at least 1920 wide.

 

[ControlD]

I'll replace it with another when there is a 13" MBA or 15" in the MBA form factor (thin) with high (at least 1920x1200) res. It doesn't even need to be "retina" but I want 16:10 and at least 1920 wide.

I can understand wanting a higher resolution screen, but I would actually be happier to simply have the MBA resolution on my 13" MBP. I use a 15.4" 1920x1080 screen at work and honestly everything is just too damned small to be comfortable. Having a 13" 1920x1200 screen would really be hard to use I think. I'm sure this is all personal preference though. Maybe it would be nice to have more than one resolution screen to choose from.