My, my, my...the furor that i5 causes, esp. at AMDZone......(read: censorship)

[Gikaseixas]

that site should be shut down

i like AMD a lot but reading that garbage is just painful

 

[AznAnarchy99]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Rational poster : "Let's try this again: What percentage of the market has a single/dual core processor (but not a quad) AND is compatible with a Phenom II drop in upgrade? Until you answer this you flail about in the dark accomplishing nothing."

MDK777 : "60-80% I would guess. I don't have the numbers. It is 100% of AM3 + and 100% AM2+ and even a percentage of AM2. This is over 5 years!

The number of 755 boards you can install a CORE I5 into = 0%
The number of 1366 boards you can install a CORE I5 into =0%

This also is the majority of INTEL boards sold into retail over the last 5 years.

60-80% verses 0%

Why you don't know this is beyond me, everyone who thinks they know about computing should know these facts and not require someone to explain it to them."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

What total fucking idiots. AM2 didn't launch until mid 2006 (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuch...owdoc.aspx?i=2741&p=9) .. that means that AM2 is barely 3 years old, and furthermore, only a small portion of 1st-year AM2 mobos are capable of running 45nm PhII quads, if you can even get a bios update for them.

Smyrgl, you should post here more often, at least a decent number of people have brains in their skulls. I have a PhII 805 at 3.5ghz, but I'm not gonna try and tell someone that AMD is better all the while making shit up out of thin air. 5 years of AM2 + Quad compatibility my ass. 5 years ago was 2004, Socket 939 was only a year old, and Socket 754 was just getting going with single-core consumer options, AM2 was a ways off.

I was thinking the exact same thing because I built my s939 rig in 2005 and the system wasn't close to going away.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: smyrgl

Originally posted by: veri745
The censoring is ridiculous, but you can't exactly expect an intel-supporting "troll" to be welcomed at a forum with AMD in the name.

Sorry, but what I did wasn't trolling, it was just disagreeing with the prevailing opinion. Trolling would be coming in and making totally unsupported statements, whereas I made sure to backup everything I said with facts and objective data.

Not that what I did was that hard. It's a lot easier to win an argument when you take an easily supportable position (such as Lynnfield being a great processor) and your opponent has an incredibly hard to support position (that Lynnfield is not superior to Phenom II and in fact is no threat whatsoever). That's one of the things that most people don't realize about debate: not all debate subjects are equal and a lesser debater can often win a debate against a superior adversary if he is good about picking which side of a topic to be on.

Not that the debate quality on AMDZone was all that good mind you.

I mean, they can't "not know" how stupid they appear. Can they? :::shudders:::

You've never worked a job dealing with people have you? Try retail or the amusement business. It gets worse.

 

[faxon]

hey man some of the people i WORK WITH are that stupid lmao. i just spent a whole 20 minutes today trying to explain to another member of the staff why the 2.66GHz i5 750 could run @ w/e its max turbo mode is, and why it was faster than a phenom 2 965 in just about every application as a result, with the ones it wasnt faster in, still giving you a better $/performance ratio since the 750 is $200 and the 965 is $245, with equally priced motherboards and DDR3 ram. he just couldnt wrap his head around the fact that you DIDNT have to do anything to get the cpu to overclock itself, besides make sure it was running cool enough. he thought that any and all overclocking voided your warranty and was to be avoided lmao.

ed: and dont get me started about yesterday. i got to meet a zoner. heres what i posted on the EVGA forums while i was on break lol.

ORIGINAL: Brad_Hawthorne

Not if I can help it. What pisses me off the most about fan-boys is they're willing to regurgitate other people's nonsense without needing to know any reasoning behind it. They don't reason out why something is to their like/dislike themselves, but merely moo like cattle when someone herds them in a particular direction. Reason for yourself and be able to elaborate on why you have an opinion about something. The internet will be better off with more people that can actually reason out a constructive argument.

yea really lol. it's really bad when i get a fanboi of a particular company (be it amd or intel or whoever) come into frys components department looking for hardware recommendations, and then get really pissed off when i recommend them something other than what they think is the best, reason out why it's better, and then they get bent out of shape when i politely ask them what their reasoning is for why the particular product is better (because obviously they are just being an ignorant fanboi). now, i have had plenty of customers in a similar situation, but once i explained to them why XYZ product was really that much better, the logical part of their brain turned on and they ended up going with what i recommended. fanboi's tend to start trying to argue with you instead and when you tell them that if they want recommendations to not get bent out of shape if you recommend a product they dont like, they just leave all pissed off. had one today in fact lol, one of those AMDzone types. he came in looking to spend $200 give or take on a CPU and $130 on a board, and when i told him that the 955 he chose for $217 was as much as 25% slower in some apps than the i5 750, which was cheaper, and had a cheaper mobo with the features he wanted (DDR3, and it had more SATA ports), he /rage, screamed that i didnt know what i was talking about and to stop worshiping the satan that is intel, and left after trying to make a complaint to the store manager about my being an arse to his face, even though my supervisor, the department manager, 3 other customers, and 2 other associates all heard it happen, backed me up, and made sure he left the department without making any more of a scene


you meet some pretty strange people in retail lol. ooh, the stories i could tell, if only i werent so hungry right now haha

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Gikaseixas
that site should be shut down

i like AMD a lot but reading that garbage is just painful

That would just increase the noise around here.

The cult mentality need not be restricted in application to merely matters of spirituality and religion...the same region of the brain mired in cult fanaticism can be invoked in regards to literally any concept with which a ringleader wishes to control their flock.

Originally posted by: IlllI
a. who cares
b. what does this have to do with anandtech

If I lived in Waco, circa 1993, I'd want to know the existence and whereabouts of David Koresh and his compound just so I personally could steer clear (and keep my children well away from) anything to do with it.

Not necessarily out of fear of it specifically, but out of fear over the uncertainty of what can come from it (ATF shitstorm, no need to get run over when the cavalry gets called in) when push comes to shove. It's hard to get killed in an elephant stampede if you live north of the arctic circle

I like knowing where the zoners are and what their latest scriptures entail. Some of it is comical, some of it is just sad, and some of it frustrating...very much like reading account after account of the high-profile headline leading results of shariah law and how some radical muslims treat christians.

Enter the zone and you are expected to either become a convert or your online persona in that forum is killed off (banned/delete posts/etc). Mmmmm...me loves me some good cult mentality.

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Enter the zone and you are expected to either become a convert or your online persona in that forum is killed off (banned/delete posts/etc).

That is an excellent way of summing it up.

 

[AdamK47]

It wasn't too long ago during the Athlon/P4 dominated days when this forum was crawling with die hard AMD fans. I had Athlon CPUs during the Prescott P4 days (also had a Prescott at the time too), but if you even mentioned buying or upgrading to a Prescott based system you got blasted right away for it.

 

[james 1]

lol, funny guys

 

[v8envy]

One more vote for the ICC compiler making a huge difference. If you dig around on Phoronix you can find a benchmark where a win32 Firefox running under Wine is nearly twice as fast as the native Linux version in CPU heavy tasks. The difference is attributed to the windows version being compiled with ICC, and the native version being a GCC produced binary. The claimed 40% performance improvement over gcc is definitely there for all to see.

The ICC compiler is free for personal use, so I may just do a bit of compiling and benchmarking myself to show what a huge difference the compiler makes. I'm a bit surprised there are no commercial Linux distributions being compiled top to bottom with ICC. Such a distribution would be much, much faster on Intel hardware than any other version on AMD or Intel.

 

[BushLin]

I posted on there, trying my best not to get deleted but we'll see I guess.

 

[yacoub]

Originally posted by: Beanie46
What I don't understand is the insistence that entire suites of benchmarking programs are totally biased towards Intel.....Photoshop, Cinebench, Everest, SYSMark, DivX, 3DMark, Windows Media Encoder, Nero, 3dsmax, Blender, Microsoft Office suite, Sony Vegas Pro, WinRAR, Crysis, FarCry 2, Left 4 Dead.....any of the commerical applications or benching software that EVERYONE uses to bench cpus.

Yeah when it's basically "every program people use" that's not bias. That sounds like someone (AMD) needs to get with the program and make their CPUs run the code as efficiently as the other guy (Intel).

That's like coming into an office where everyone is using PCs to do their work and going OH HAY GUYS, I USE A MAC, YOU ALL NEED TO BE COMPATIBLE WITH ME SO THAT I CAN PERFORM AS WELL AS YOU, OTHERWISE UR ALL BIASED.
No, YOU need to get in line with the group, they don't need to change for you. When everyone else is already doing something and it works, and you arrive doing something some other way, you need to figure out how to work with the group.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: v8envy
One more vote for the ICC compiler making a huge difference. If you dig around on Phoronix you can find a benchmark where a win32 Firefox running under Wine is nearly twice as fast as the native Linux version in CPU heavy tasks. The difference is attributed to the windows version being compiled with ICC, and the native version being a GCC produced binary. The claimed 40% performance improvement over gcc is definitely there for all to see.

The ICC compiler is free for personal use, so I may just do a bit of compiling and benchmarking myself to show what a huge difference the compiler makes. I'm a bit surprised there are no commercial Linux distributions being compiled top to bottom with ICC. Such a distribution would be much, much faster on Intel hardware than any other version on AMD or Intel.

v8 have you any experience with portland group compilers? Just curious how they compare with ICC in your mind. I've exclusively used portland group for the past decade+, having used microsoft and gcc prior to that, but have never had the reason or occasion to try out ICC.

(ironically I got turned on to portland group for their (then) superior compiling results on Athlon hardware and I had a 24-node athlon cluster (beowulf) that needed tuned executables for max performance scaling reasons)

 

[Beanie46]

I did read Phoronix's testing of the Lynnfield cpu and find the results a little odd....

What I find odd with the Phoronix review is that a tri-core AMD processor, the Phenom II X3 710, proved faster or at least as fast as the i7 870 in almost all their test and sometimes was the fastest in particular tests, or that the i7 920 continually finished first when not finishing second to the AMD tri-core processor.

Since Phoronix is testing using their own distro of Linux, it seems to me that something just isn't quite right with it. Odd.

Of course, they do say at the end, "after starting to see a flow of Windows-based reviews today, it looks like there are some more serious Linux + Lynnfield problems at hand, which we are currently investigating."

What they should have said is in fact our distro of Linux is written to favor AMD processors which is why a Phenom II X3 710 cpu could keep up with a Core i7 920 or i7 870.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
Here at least when the mods decide they want to censor stuff to support their agenda and push Obama's goal of socialism and indoctrination of our youth...

That's not my agenda. Mine is "a fast computer on every desk and a stripper on every lap."

Originally posted by: yacoub
That's like coming into an office where everyone is using PCs to do their work and going OH HAY GUYS, I USE A MAC, YOU ALL NEED TO BE COMPATIBLE WITH ME SO THAT I CAN PERFORM AS WELL AS YOU, OTHERWISE UR ALL BIASED.

LOL!

 

[elconejito]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

I mean, they can't "not know" how stupid they appear. Can they? :::shudders:::

I frequently work with govt folk, or people working with govt folk (contractors). I now know there is no lower limit to stupidity. As the saying goes "Just when you think you've hit rock-bottom, somebody gets out the pick-axe"

And that amd-zone thread? wow. just... wow.

 

[Leyawiin]

Its a fan site. Why the big surprise and did you honestly expect objectivity? I've saw a couple of nasty pro-ATI threads pop up in the EVGA forums in 2008 after the release of the HD 4800 series and they generally are pretty open minded. And of course someone made a thread in HardOCP crowing about their fan-boism and how they were above such blind loyalty. Just the way these kind of boards work.

 

[sonoran]

Originally posted by: Beanie46
Since Phoronix is testing using their own distro of Linux, it seems to me that something just isn't quite right with it. Odd.

Chances are they were testing with a Linux build that can't support TurboBoost. It didn't take much Googling to find some further info about Linux vs TurboBoost: http://computing-intensive.blo...-boost-work-under.html. Seems like it wouldn't be hard to find a Linux distro that doesn't have a clue how to utilize the new chips to their fullest.

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: sonoran

Originally posted by: Beanie46
Since Phoronix is testing using their own distro of Linux, it seems to me that something just isn't quite right with it. Odd.

Chances are they were testing with a Linux build that can't support TurboBoost. It didn't take much Googling to find some further info about Linux vs TurboBoost: http://computing-intensive.blo...-boost-work-under.html. Seems like it wouldn't be hard to find a Linux distro that doesn't have a clue how to utilize the new chips to their fullest.

I don't get why the OS should have anything to do with it. Maybe I'm just slow, but it's a cpu hardware feature.

 

[dmens]

Originally posted by: sonoran
Chances are they were testing with a Linux build that can't support TurboBoost. It didn't take much Googling to find some further info about Linux vs TurboBoost: http://computing-intensive.blo...-boost-work-under.html. Seems like it wouldn't be hard to find a Linux distro that doesn't have a clue how to utilize the new chips to their fullest.

There are a few tests where the lynnfield with no SMT smashes the one with SMT enabled, which could indicate yet another OS-driven slowdown.

 

[bfdd]

lol this is hilarious. these people must not remember the time anand was giving nothing but rave reviews to amd touting it at every corner. hell just a little bit ago in theiry PHII X3 review they gave it a hell of a good review, other sites as well, I've actually been thinking of building one till I picked up my i7 920 and have even recommended it to a few friends who wanted to upgrade their older gaming machines but had a tight budget.

 

[SolMiester]

Wow, I just had to register and give them an ear full...what a bunch of school kids...LOL

 

[bfdd]

Wow I just read it again and saw a new post by someone called MU_Engineer who made what I thought was a very good post not bias towards EITHER side and this guy attacks him on it with what looks to be straight stupidity.... My head hurts.

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: Idontcare
v8 have you any experience with portland group compilers? Just curious how they compare with ICC in your mind. I've exclusively used portland group for the past decade+, having used microsoft and gcc prior to that, but have never had the reason or occasion to try out ICC.

Any C and C++ compiler knowledge I have is so far out of date as to be worse than useless. I could *write* a really crappy one, and I've hand-optimized assembly emited by some extremely awful ones (cough Sequent cough) in the days when 386 instruction sets were shiny and new, but these days I'm clueless.

That said, I'm sure Portland takes just as much care in optimizing the instruction mix to run well on AMD as they do for Intel. Which is an obvious advantage to some users. The ICC-produced code runs on AMD, but not much better than what GCC gives us.

I tried mailing the Phoronix guys to see if they'd be interested in writing a review article re: a Linux distribution compiled with ICC. I know Intel has been sponsoring a group for getting a Linux kernel compiled with icc to run. Maybe the Portland guys could be talked into something similar. A bake-off between a standard Linux distribution compiled with various optimizing compilers would be something I know plenty of people would pay attention to.

And if Linux is too hack-ridden for this to work, perhaps OpenSolaris or one of the BSDs would be a better candidate...

Oh, as far as Linux and turbo mode not working on Lynfield -- very possible. I know my i7 defaulted to 12x (1.6 ghz) until I loaded the cpufreq kernel modules and daemon, at which point all cores starting clocking up to 22x multiplier. cpufreq and friends are NOT loaded by default on Ubuntu 9.04. Also, unlike Phoronix I do have lm-sensors reporting correct temperature and voltage data. The version shipping with 9.04 is at least six months out of date.

And finally, I'm not sure the Phoronix benchmark suite favors multiple processors over a single core. If you could get a ~6 ghz P4 stable enough long enough to finish the suite I'd bet money it would be competitive with the i7 870 as well.