My new spec'd out gaming system - comments welcome

[Allistah]

Hey guys..

I'm working on putting together a new system and this is what I've got so far. I have not pulled the trigger on this so I wanted to see if anyone had any comments for me that I might want to think about before buying all of this stuff.

Since I'm basing it on the Gigabyte mobo, I wanted to see if anyone had any issues with it and the rest of the hardware that I've chosen. Thats why I posed it here in this forum. If this is the wrong place, please accept my apology.

All of this is from mwave.com as I got better stuff for the same price as Newegg. The mobo is out of stock at mwave and Newegg so I couldn't remember the price exactly at mwave.com. The price of the mobo below is from Newegg. I do believe that mwave.com was a bit cheaper.

$149.90 - GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3P LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard
$279.00 - INTEL CORE 2 DUO E6850 3.0 GHZ EM64T 1333MHZ RETAIL BOXED
$145.00 - CRUCIAL BALLISTIX TRACER 2GB KIT (1GB x 2) MATCH PAIR PC2 8500 1066MHZ 5-5-5-15 240-PIN DDR2 DIMM W/HEAT SPREADER
$439.90 - EVGA GEFORCE 8800GTS KO w/ACS3 640MB DDR3 PCI-Express w/HDCP DVI+DVI+HDTVOut ROHS
$075.90 - SEAGATE 320GB ST3320620AS SATA2 7200RPM 16MB (Bare drive)
$128.80 - ANTEC P182 (BLACK) ATX TOWER CASE NO POWER SUPPLY
$112.70 - ANTEC TP3-650 TRUEPOWER TRIO ATX 12V 650W
$033.90 - LITE-ON LH-20A1L-05 20X SUPERALLWRITE SATA+LIGHTSCRIBE(Bare Drive)
$033.90 - LITE-ON LH-20A1L-05 20X SUPERALLWRITE SATA+LIGHTSCRIBE(Bare Drive)

Sub-total: $1399.00

If you have any suggestions for better pricing or if you think some other components will work better together, please let me know. Thanks for the comments!

Yes, there are two burners there, I like to read from one and burn on the other.

-Allistah

 

[BenchZowner]

Corsair HX620 instead of the Antec
Asus P5K Deluxe instead of the Gigabyte ( some P5K Deluxe's have problems with RAID and need to be RMAd though ) [ if you're not looking for RAID, go for it ]
I would also buy a "normal" 8800GTS 640MB and get a Samsung SpinPoint HD501LJ ( 500GB, SATA II ) instead of the Seagate 320.

 

[chiew]

I'd suggest the Abit IP35E mobo on mwave, its $72 after rebate. It's also P35. With the components you listed, you won't be missing out by getting the Abit instead. Abit only has 4 SATA ports, but with two SATA burners and a SATA hard drive, that only adds up to 3.

If you have the cash, E6850 is fine, but E6750 is at a sweeter price/performance ratio point at $70 cheaper. You can overclock the E6750 and regain the performance.

If you get the Crucial non-Tracer 800mhz version, that's just $80 on newegg after rebate. There will be only a slight increase in performance by using 1066mhz ram, and if you do OC, you will most likely be running your RAM under 1066mhz. If you do need to run the RAM faster than 800mhz, the Crucial 800mhz sticks overclock well.

I would agree with BenchZowner and get the regular 8800GTS 640mb. You can get it on buy.com for $100 less ($340 after rebate):
http://www.buy.com/prod/evga-g...loc/101/203444496.html

the new chip on the 8800GTS overclocks well and you can regain whatever clock the KO has. the KO won't give you $100 more of FPS anyway.

That saves you about $300, which can be put towards buying a nice 22" LCD.

Also, the true power trio is a bit overkill for your system. I know I sound like a hypocrite since I have that PSU, but I regret getting it. I'd rather have a single powerful rail than three rails. It will be better futureproofing to get a single rail PSU, so you don't have to worry about next gen graphics cards pulling too much current for a multi rail PSU to handle.

 

[BenchZowner]

@chiew:

The TruePower Trio 650W is a single rail PSU not a triple rail as the packaging says.

 

[Allistah]

Hi there..

@BenchZowner:

Can you tell me why you recommend the Corsair over the Antec True Power? Same thing with the Asus board.. Why do you recommend this one over the Gigabyte one? I've read all the user reviews on Newegg and people are most satisfied with the Gigabyte one. Plus all the reviews I've read have put the Gigabyte board on top and it runs a lot cooler than the Asus board.

Why the normal 8800GTS? They have a lifetime warranty so if it ever chokes, I'll just get it replaced.

Why is the Samsung drive better than the Seagate?

Basically I'd like to know why you're making the suggestions so I can understand your reasoning - it will help me make my final decision.

-Allistah

 

[chiew]

If you want to spend $440 on a 640mb 8800gts, I would suggest the XFX XXX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814150215

core is at 600mhz, memory at 1900mhz

the evga KO is core at 580mhz, memory at 1700mhz.

However, from what people have been saying, you can get a normal 500mhz/1600mhz card up to those speeds yourself. Thus, by getting a $340 640mb card, you are saving $100. Paying $100 better be getting you a lot more FPS. Normally GPU makers will OC the card for you then charge you a bunch for minimal improvement in performance.

Abit mobo: half the price for the same performance.

 

[Ozoneman]

Allistah, you have made very good choices.

The only thing you might think about is the power supply. I don't know if that one is good or not, but you need to make sure you have plenty of power and multiple 12volt rails is best. I like my Corsair 620 and my son has an Enermax Galaxy 850 that is really nice. That one has 4 or 5 12 volt rails. Your PS is so important to having a solid system.

Lite-on and Seagate are fine drives. I like that case too. It will keep things nice and cool. Since this is a gaming PC, did you look at the Antec 900 case. It is very cool too!

 

[Allistah]

@chiew:
If I overclock it, is it in software or do you change the firmware and re-flash it? If it's software then I might think about this one. The reason I liked the KO one is because of the extra cooling it has on it. Plus it's overclocked already and I won't have to worry about it - and if it breaks eVGA will replace it. I'll have to re-think this one and see if this is the way I want to go or not. I'll also have to take a look at the Abit board. Thanks for the suggestions - I appreciate it.

@Ozoneman:
Thanks for the tip on the rails. I'll have to be sure that I get a PSU with multiple rails. I picked that P182 case because it was the best one for cooling and quiet on silentpcreview.com. I also liked the way the cables are routed in it. Should be a nice case.

 

[Ozoneman]

Allistah, yeah that case is nice. I'm thinking about replacing my Cooler Master ATC case with one of those. I also want quite and my 80 mm fans in my Cooler Master speeding along are starting to irritate me. The Antec P182 has those quite 120 mm fans that have 3 speeds if you need more cooling or if you are going for the very quite mode.

 

[Allistah]

@Ozoneman:
Yeah, I looked at that 900 case too but I read reviews that the top 200mm fan wasn't very quiet. Also people said if it breaks you can't find 200mm fans to replace it with so I decided to go with the P182 because of that review. The review is here for those who want to check it out. It's a pretty nice case. I like how they separate the hard drives/PSU from the rest of the system to help with heat.

The review is here: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article741-page1.html

 

[Ozoneman]

My son has the Antec 900 and the fan is quite if you have it on low and somewhat quite on medium. This is based on my personal observation. As far as the fan, it may be hard to replace, but how often does a case fan go bad? Antec should be able to supply another fan don't you think?

However, I still like your choice.

 

[BenchZowner]

Originally posted by Allistah
Can you tell me why you recommend the Corsair over the Antec True Power?

Both of them are made by Seasonic, but Corsair set the bar for higher quality components than Antec.
Plus it's modular ( helps a lot in small/medium sized cases ] and it doesn't suffer from the "blow up" issue that the Antec has in high loads.
You can read more on this on my review here& JonnyGuru's as well.

Originally posted by Allistah
Same thing with the Asus board.. Why do you recommend this one over the Gigabyte one? I've read all the user reviews on Newegg and people are most satisfied with the Gigabyte one. Plus all the reviews I've read have put the Gigabyte board on top and it runs a lot cooler than the Asus board.

The Gigabyte board suffers from huge FSB holes & a self-BIOS reset issue ( if you're into overclocking ), also it falls behind the Asus tweaking-wise/BIOS-wise & in voltage stability.
The Asus P5K is the one that runs hot, and that's because the upper Mosfet heatsink isn't making proper contact, the Deluxe is fine.
As for the NewEgg user reviews...oh well...most of them are total newbies that rate themselves as "Experts" and say their pooh-pooh to make the real experts laugh
I can link you to a thread about those dumb NewEgg users reviews for you to have a laugh if you want
I've reviewed the P5K3 Deluxe which is practically the same board ( with the P5K Deluxe ) just for DDR-3 RAM, and my conclusion was..."Almost perfect"

Originally posted by Allistah
Why the normal 8800GTS? They have a lifetime warranty so if it ever chokes, I'll just get it replaced.

Almost every single ( if not all ) 8800GTS can reach the frequencies of the pre-overclocked cards released by the above mentioned OEMs.
Why waste 100$ for a simple overclocking which you can perform on your own by simply following a GeForce 8 Series Overclocking guide like this one ?
And they share the same warranty periods, so just pickup your desired manufacturer ( mainly based on their warranty policy and RMA Department user experiences, the cards perform identically, there's no difference but the stickers )

originally posted by AllistahWhy is the Samsung drive better than the Seagate?

More capacity, faster drive ( better performance ), and it also runs quieter & cooler than the Samsung, plus the price makes it a stellar purchase.

 

[BenchZowner]

originally posted by Ozoneman
The only thing you might think about is the power supply. I don't know if that one is good or not, but you need to make sure you have plenty of power and multiple 12volt rails is best.

A single rail Power Supply Unit is the better choice by far, from every single aspect ( unless we're talking about a real overkill and top-end quality PSU, let's say like a PC Power & Cooling or Zippy/eMacs one around 1500W with multiple powerfull rails, which isn't out and it shouldn't be ).
Major example ?
Let's say that you buy a 700W PSU with 4 +12V rails, with each rail giving 17A but the max combined rating will be under the sum of all 4 ( less than 4*17A ) [ usually around 4*14 ]. Ok, but then again...ATi releases a great VGA but with a monstrous power consumption exceeding the real max amperage of the 12V rail, you won't be able to supply that card with the real multiple rail PSU.
While with a decent unit, with a big single +12V rail you will be able to do it
There are more reasons as well, but can't get into more details at the moment, gotta finish up some stuff ( and I'm already out of schedule )

originally posted by OzonemanI like that case too. It will keep things nice and cool. Since this is a gaming PC, did you look at the Antec 900 case. It is very cool too!

The Antec P182 is a very nice case, designed with Thermal Performance & Noise reduction in mind.
I wouldn't recommend the Antec Nine Hundred because of the limited space and some other details ( you can check my review of the Antec Nine Hundred here for more details

 

[Ozoneman]

BenchZowner,

Obviously when I was talking about multiple 12 volt rails, I would suggest getting a PS that has enough amps on each rail to supply the power you need for your components. Also, if a single rail is best, why are all the companies supplying multiple 12 volt rails in their newer units? Like Enermax Galaxy has 5 12 volt rails.

 

[chiew]

I retract my earlier statement that the Antec TPT650W is on three rails. The review by BenchZowner shows that it is a single rail. Thank goodness!

As for the 8800GTS, yes it should be via software. You must download the Ntune software, I believe its called. However, I'm not sure of a way to do it by hardware or BIOS flash. It is kind of annoying, but when you change the OC via Ntune, I believe it disappears next time you start up. Not a problem if you don't restart much, but definitely annoying. Perhaps someone can tell you how to OC it without it resetting back to stock upon restart.

As for the case, I can give it about a 90% rating. I have a P180B rev1.1, and that means that it has all the P182 revisions (liquid cooling holes, fan adjustments on the back, holes in the PCI slot holders, raised mobo tray to wire things behind). Stock fans are pretty quiet on low, but on medium they are readily audible. I chose to remove the top exhaust fan and instead put it on the back of the top HD bay, so now its blowing directly on my GPU. If you chose to do the same, it will keep your GPU very nice and cool. If you're really a silent freak, I can hear the fans on low, and may someday replace them with Nexus or Noctua 120mms and a fan controller. However right now the biggest noise culprit in my case is the 40mm fan I put on the northbridge. After reading many reviews on the Antec p180 I thought you could put anything in and not hear it due to the sound-deadening panels, but this was just a dream. I'd say the sound-deadening is very slightly above average. But I guess I'm picky.

Some gripes: if you do get the Antec try not to push anything plastic too hard. I broke off two of the feet holding the side door in. Nothing a little krazy glue couldn't fix, but annoying nonetheless. And when I moved the top 120mm to cool the graphics card, I bent another plastic thing a bit too hard, and it broke off. Not too happy. My next case will prob be a Silverstone TJ10 or similar build quality with more metal. Case is very heavy. If you run 4 hard drives in the lower cage, plan on running the bottom fan on medium to keep them decently cool. I have it on low even though my four HDs are a bit hot, because I hate the noise.

At the guy above me, I think that some companies are using it as a marketing gimmick. An argument for more rails is that it provides less noise, since the different components are isolated and therefore cannot transmit noise to the other components. Also, past a certain point like on the 1000W power supplies, having too much current on one rail is too dangerous (even though most companies are not complying with safety standards when they put more than 20A per rail), so they likely divided it up because of that.

Most important thing to do when getting a PSU is check the specs and make sure you have at least 18A or so on each rail. I think NVidia quoted that their 8800GTX pulled like 22A or something, so the more amps that a rail is rated, the better you'll be able to futureproof against ever more powerful GPUs. Another nice thing to have on a PSU is PFC, and the Ante c TPT650 has that. Just check the reviews that people write for the PSU that you are about to buy.

 

[BenchZowner]

originally posted by Ozoneman
Also, if a single rail is best, why are all the companies supplying multiple 12 volt rails in their newer units? Like Enermax Galaxy has 5 12 volt rails.

You know how business are run nowadays, don't ya ? Marketing people are really important in todays' companies, and they do their best to work it out, one way or another.

For example RAM 'manufacturers' keep pushing the default frequencies, does that mean that faster RAM will give you better performance ? Nope.
Surely ? Check the reviews that cover that stuff ( I'm not gonna say check my review because people will start thinking that I'm here to promote my site ), it's all there
By the way don't think of the Galaxy as a "reference / top-end" PSU because it's not, and it suffers from ripple in mid to high loads ( as illustrated in real PSU reviews like JonnyGuru's ).Not that it's a bad PSU, it's good, but there are others way better.

By the way PC Power & Cooling originally released the TurboCool SSI 1KW as a multiple rail PSU...and then, there's the TurboCool SR 1KW { SR aka Single Rail }

Originally posted by chiew
As for the 8800GTS, yes it should be via software. You must download the Ntune software, I believe its called. However, I'm not sure of a way to do it by hardware or BIOS flash. It is kind of annoying, but when you change the OC via Ntune, I believe it disappears next time you start up. Not a problem if you don't restart much, but definitely annoying. Perhaps someone can tell you how to OC it without it resetting back to stock upon restart.

Don't send people to the annoyingly stupid nTune
If you're a software only guy, then there's RivaTuner and ATi Tool ( I Prefer RivaTuner ).
If you're like it the "hard" ( it's not "hard" for difficult, but for "hardware-wise" ) then you need to find your max stable or desired clocks using the appropriate software ( RivaTuner ) and then dump ( "download/save" it from your VGA ) your BIOS, edit it & save your modified BIOS and then flash your card with it using nVflash.
Here's a Advanced & Detailed ( Step by step ) Overclocking Guide for the GeForce 8 Series cards covering everything, from Shader Domain overclocking, BIOS Editing, GPU Core Clock 'strap' and more

P.S. You can have RivaTuner to apply your overclocked frequencies everytime you log on into Windows.

originally posted by chiew
At the guy above me, I think that some companies are using it as a marketing gimmick.

originally posted by chiew
An argument for more rails is that it provides less noise, since the different components are isolated and therefore cannot transmit noise to the other components. Also, past a certain point like on the 1000W power supplies, having too much current on one rail is too dangerous (even though most companies are not complying with safety standards when they put more than 20A per rail), so they likely divided it up because of that.

Well, a real multiple rail PSU should have separate transformers & 'output stage' for every rail, which is not the case with current products.
On a sidenote and to prevent confusion, you're referring to "rail noise" ( electrical noise ) not noise ( sound )

originally posted by chiew
Most important thing to do when getting a PSU is check the specs and make sure you have at least 18A or so on each rail.

Better check real and unbiased reviews, which of course contain the specifications and also comment on the specifications and the way they're indicated.
Some companies "cheat" by measuring and stating the specifications with extraordinary and very very optimistic operating environments, like the Operating Temperature trick, where they measure the PSU's outputs at less than 50C operating temperature ( I've seen some company rating a PSU at 15C operating temperature ) where they can output more power ( operating temperature affects the components performance ).
Also take caution in the components used & their quality.

originally posted by chiew
I think NVidia quoted that their 8800GTX pulled like 22A or something, so the more amps that a rail is rated, the better you'll be able to futureproof against ever more powerful GPUs.

Well, the GTX at it's default frequencies barely exceeds 13A ( that's the peak, not the average comsumption ) [ I'm referring to full load consumption while gaming, not idle of course! ], the Ampere ratings that nVIDIA states are full system requirements ( example: whenever they say "For the X card a minimum 600W PSU with 25A on the +12V rail is required", they mean that they require 25A for all your system, not that the card draws 25A from the +12V rail )

 

[Ozoneman]

Yeah, I know how business is. But I also know that PC components have improved through advancements in technology. You don't really believe it is all marketing do you?

You agree that the Galaxy is a good PS, but you say there are better. How much more do the better ones cost? For our purposes does the Galaxy meet all our needs or even exceed them?

 

[BenchZowner]

Not everything is marketing, but multiple rails is

As for the galaxy, well depends on which you're looking at, for example the PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W can be found at around 180$, while the Galaxy 850 at 280$
The Galaxy 1000W averages at 320$ , while the PCP&C TC 1000W SR averages at 460$, but there's no comparison between these two

[let's get back on topic now]

 

[Allistah]

Hey guys..

I wanted to first thank you guys for taking the time and posting your thoughts on these things. And second I wanted to list out the things that I've pulled out of the thread that I need to think about.

1. Go with a single rail PSU
   Check into a Corsair PSU instead of Antec (higher quality)
   Check into the standard 8800 GTS and overclock it to save cash
   Get the standard Crucial 800MHz ram to save more cash as it OCs well
   Look at the Asus board over the Gigabyte because the Gig board has some potential problems
   Look into a Samsung drive over Seagate (Bigger, faster, quieter, cooler, price)

So if the regular P5K board runs hot because of the heatsink, can I fix it? Can I take it off and AS5 the thing to make the contact better?

If I have summarized this thread well please let me know if I've left anything out or not.

Again, thanks a bunch guys, I really appreciate the talk here.

-Allistah

 

[Ozoneman]

Benchzowner - "By the way don't think of the Galaxy as a "reference / top-end" PSU because it's not, and it suffers from ripple in mid to high loads ( as illustrated in real PSU reviews like JonnyGuru's )"

You refer to JonnyGuru alot, what other "real PSU reviews" can you point me to. I did a quick Google search and found this. What do you think of Bjorn3d reviews? Here is what I found there about the Galaxy 850.

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=960

He gives it a "Goldbear Award".

In his intro he says, "Today, we are going to take a look at one of the best power supply unit's that is currently available?Enermax Galaxy 850W EGA850EWL (probably the only other PSU that?s better than this PSU is the Enermax Galaxy 1000W model)."

 

[Allistah]

The one thing that I really liked about the 8800 GTS KO board is that the heatsink is huge and can really get the heat off the board and out the back of the system. I forgot to put that in my past post.

 

[chiew]

Putting a $4 120mm fan in the case next to the GPU will probably do more than the KO heatsink in getting heat out. As far as I've heard, the 8800GTS stock heatsink and fan does a good job. If you've seen the XFX XXX heatsink, it is stock, and it is clocked even higher than the KO. If you do get the P182 case, you can mount a 120mm fan on the upper HD bay, and it will point straight at your card. That will keep it cooler than the KO heatsink, and you save a lot more money

 

[Allistah]

I really was going to go for the eVGA boards because they have a lifetime warranty - unless they changed that of course. A lifetime warranty speaks to me - especially when it's 3+ years down the road and it starts to crap out. You know what the warranty on that XFX XXX one is?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Allistah
@chiew:
If I overclock it, is it in software or do you change the firmware and re-flash it? If it's software then I might think about this one. The reason I liked the KO one is because of the extra cooling it has on it. Plus it's overclocked already and I won't have to worry about it - and if it breaks eVGA will replace it. I'll have to re-think this one and see if this is the way I want to go or not. I'll also have to take a look at the Abit board. Thanks for the suggestions - I appreciate it.

@Ozoneman:
Thanks for the tip on the rails. I'll have to be sure that I get a PSU with multiple rails. I picked that P182 case because it was the best one for cooling and quiet on silentpcreview.com. I also liked the way the cables are routed in it. Should be a nice case.

You would be better off with a different pSU IMO than the Antec....
Why do you need multiple rails??
A single rail quality PSU will do you just fine!!

 

[Allistah]

I mis-interpreted what I was having suggested to me. I'm going with the Corsair 620HX or whatever it was. It's a single rail PSU but is advertised as 3. I think I'm pretty sold on the Corsair after reading the reviews that BenchZowner suggested to me.