My next vehicle purchase - fun vs responsibility vs stupid

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angminas

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2006
3,331
26
91
The reason I don't like the car I have right now is because the value of the car vs the cost of the repairs makes it not worth while. The car is worth maybe $2000 if everything was repaired. However, the repairs would cost about $900 in just parts. (AC components, CA legal cat, etc.)

This is silly thinking. You're looking for a car to own, not a car to flip. You could rebuild the engine and transmission and a hell of a lot more for half of your $15k budget, and you'd end up with a much more reliable car with warranties on it.
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,810
45
91
This is silly thinking. You're looking for a car to own, not a car to flip. You could rebuild the engine and transmission and a hell of a lot more for half of your $15k budget, and you'd end up with a much more reliable car with warranties on it.

There's multiple things at work: I want a /better/ car. I don't want the same car but just less problems and newer. The car I have was my first car and is a nice first car. However, I'd like to step up and get a nicer car overall. The Prius is a nicer car (if optioned correctly). Just about any BMW is also be a nicer car. I wanted something that was nicer and better in at least some ways. I wanted a step forward rather than a step sideways.

So, yeah, I could just rebuild the car I have or buy another civic but that would defeat what I wanted to do which is make a step forward. That's why the budget is $15k and not $5k.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,513
221
106
Cross shopping M3s and Prius? You should also consider the Honda Fit and Charger SRT8.
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,810
45
91
Cross shopping M3s and Prius? You should also consider the Honda Fit and Charger SRT8.

Definitely not a charger. Considered the fit but I may as well get a Prius C at that point. The MPG on the Prius C is significantly better than the Fit. Resale value is also going to stay higher, I think.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,139
5,074
136
I don't think I have much interest in a manual gearbox these days. My experience driving manuals has never been pleasant. I'm not particularly into how much force pretty much every clutch pedal takes to operate. (It's just too much for comfortable driving) I'm also going to be in the bay area and in SF a lot. (stop and go traffic, stop and go traffic on hills...) I don't feel like riding the clutch as it gets exhausting and tiring.

A motorcycle will be different. Some of the clutches on them are easy to operate. (Some are definitely not... and I'll avoid those) Eventually, with something like the new 2015 S1000RR I won't have to use a clutch much. (Steps up and down for you with the shifter)

If you are too weak or undernourished to operate a clutch in a modern automobile you should not ride a motorcycle.
At most, a scooter of some sort
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,139
5,074
136
hes got a point, I like standards but some car manuf do make clutches that take far too much force to use.


If you have issues with clutches on cars because of legs, what do you think is going to happen when you are on and off the hand operated clutch on a motorcycle?
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
Lulz.

Guys, I'm worrying about Civic maintenance costs, so I want to buy a (1)German (2)Luxury (3)Sports Car! I believe that's something like 'three strikes and you're out.'

You say the repairs aren't 'worth it' anymore. Have you given a second's thought to depreciation? Yeah, it's only worth $2k, but it's not depreciating much at all anymore. If you get a newer/more expensive car then it will be depreciating at an alarming rate. You pay or you pay. Right now you've got a car that is known for reliability and low cost of ownership. Getting almost anything else will be a financial sink.


If you want to get a newer/better car, brace your wallet for a brutal time. Frankly, you should wait until your job situation settles out before pulling the trigger on anything with a payment.
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,810
45
91
Lulz.

Guys, I'm worrying about Civic maintenance costs, so I want to buy a (1)German (2)Luxury (3)Sports Car! I believe that's something like 'three strikes and you're out.'

You say the repairs aren't 'worth it' anymore. Have you given a second's thought to depreciation? Yeah, it's only worth $2k, but it's not depreciating much at all anymore. If you get a newer/more expensive car then it will be depreciating at an alarming rate. You pay or you pay. Right now you've got a car that is known for reliability and low cost of ownership. Getting almost anything else will be a financial sink.


If you want to get a newer/better car, brace your wallet for a brutal time. Frankly, you should wait until your job situation settles out before pulling the trigger on anything with a payment.

I'll be buying in cash. I'm not making this purchase in the next month (well, maybe the motorcycle... :awe: ).

When the repairs are more than the value of the car fully repaired, it ain't worth it. The car isn't worth $2k right now. It's worth maybe $500-1000 because the cat isn't working and the AC is broken.

Again, I want a better car! I don't want a side step or to stay at the same level.
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
I'll be buying in cash. I'm not making this purchase in the next month (well, maybe the motorcycle... :awe: ).

When the repairs are more than the value of the car fully repaired, it ain't worth it. The car isn't worth $2k right now. It's worth maybe $500-1000 because the cat isn't working and the AC is broken.

Again, I want a better car! I don't want a side step or to stay at the same level.

You're looking at the economy of cars wrong, at least it seems that way. Your car needs $1k in work to work well, presumably for a year or so. How much will your 335i depreciate in a year? How much more will insurance be? How much more will registration be? Etc. Is it better to have a car that needs $1k of repair every year or a car the depreciates $1k every year? Financially, it's the same.

"Better" is entirely subjective. Your Civic is better than a 335i financially, and in terms of fuel economy. How much do you value that? Make a weighted decision matrix of car qualities you value, weight how much you value them, and then rank how well each car you're considering meets that quality. It will help you pick the best compromise between all of the things you want.
 

Murloc

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2008
5,382
65
91
I'm not particularly into how much force pretty much every clutch pedal takes to operate.
hes got a point, I like standards but some car manuf do make clutches that take far too much force to use.
Have you guys only ever driven Porsches?
Mainstream eurocars don't require much force at all.

Anyway if this is a serious issue I'd think a bit longer about getting a motorcycle, I admit to never having driven one, but if you can't even operate a clutch with your leg, I wonder how long your wrist will last before getting tired.

My experience (european mainstream cars only, luxury cars can only be worse) is that automatic transmission = more complexity, more problems and more money down the drain.
The slushbox was never considered as a viable alternative in Europe because of the fuel consumption and waste of power (and for what? Having less fun driving?), now that there's the DCT in its various variants there are many pricier cars sold mostly with automatic transmissions (because the performance is good and there's also more stop-and-go traffic than in the past), but it costs way more money if you have problems.

Given the kind of car you were previously using and the budget, which don't indicate a high income, I'd avoid a used luxury car. It's a money sink.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,129
1,604
126
For you, I recommend a Honda Fit.

its practical, and more interesting than a Prious.
 

Wuzup101

Platinum Member
Feb 20, 2002
2,334
37
91
I don't think I have much interest in a manual gearbox these days. My experience driving manuals has never been pleasant. I'm not particularly into how much force pretty much every clutch pedal takes to operate. (It's just too much for comfortable driving) I'm also going to be in the bay area and in SF a lot. (stop and go traffic, stop and go traffic on hills...) I don't feel like riding the clutch as it gets exhausting and tiring.

A motorcycle will be different. Some of the clutches on them are easy to operate. (Some are definitely not... and I'll avoid those) Eventually, with something like the new 2015 S1000RR I won't have to use a clutch much. (Steps up and down for you with the shifter)

If you don't want to drive a stick in the city I can understand that (especially with the hills). I would definitely skip the e46 M3 then... because the SMG automatic option isn't all that great and had a few longevity issues. The auto in the e90 is nice. That being said, I would really just suggest you skip the bimmer all together. Also FWIW, the 330i ZHP has one of the lightest clutches I've ever driven.... not that I've found any modern car's clutch to be really heavy (other than aftermarket clutches).

I doubt the motorcycle will be much different. If you don't have the stamina to drive a stick car, you probably should count out riding a bike. If you find the manual annoying... you will probably find the bike annoying...

I really think the honda fit or prius would be a good option for you.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,512
21
81
I don't feel like riding the clutch as it gets exhausting and tiring.

A motorcycle will be different.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

*breathes*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

OK, back under control now. I've been riding motorcycles for the better part of two decades now. Even on bikes with "easy" clutches it gets really tiring really fast if you're in a traffic jam. It's nothing that can't be put up with, but it's certainly no easier than the extremely light clutch in an econobox like your Civic.

If I'm in a traffic jam on my motorcycles for a long time (>15 minutes) my hand will start to cramp up a little because there just aren't a lot of situations where you have to hold a fist for 15 minutes straight. In all honesty, the stiff clutch in my 944 Turbo is less hassle than the light clutch on my old Honda motorcycle in heavy traffic.

With the car I can at least usually idle along in 1st without riding the clutch at all in between times I have to stop. The motorcycle, with much less low-end torque, needs revs and slipping the clutch so the clutch hand never gets a break.

You're making bad assumptions here because you're not experienced with motorcycles.

When the repairs are more than the value of the car fully repaired, it ain't worth it.

Wrong. Just ridiculously wrong.

When the repairs are more than the cost of a reliable equivalent replacement vehicle, they're not worth it.

As long as the repairs are cheaper than buying an equivalent (but reliable) replacement vehicle, it is better to do the repairs.

Clean retail for a 2000 Civic EX Sedan with a manual transmission and 188,000 miles is $3,900 according to NADA, so you should be able to buy a reliable version of your same car for $3,900. Subtract $100 for the coupe's value. Assuming that bringing everything (including A/C) back into working order will cost less than about $3,800, it makes more financial sense to do the repairs.

ZV
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,810
45
91
You're looking at the economy of cars wrong, at least it seems that way. Your car needs $1k in work to work well, presumably for a year or so. How much will your 335i depreciate in a year? How much more will insurance be? How much more will registration be? Etc. Is it better to have a car that needs $1k of repair every year or a car the depreciates $1k every year? Financially, it's the same.

"Better" is entirely subjective. Your Civic is better than a 335i financially, and in terms of fuel economy. How much do you value that? Make a weighted decision matrix of car qualities you value, weight how much you value them, and then rank how well each car you're considering meets that quality. It will help you pick the best compromise between all of the things you want.

You're looking at it wrong. I'm not looking at just depreciation, insurance, etc. I'm looking at it overall which says that the car is a "better" car in the sense of it has more power, it is more comfortable, and it is generally nicer. It costs more, yes... Duh. But the reason I don't want to keep the civic is because the COST OUTWEIGHS THE BENEFITS. It is not a good car to drive when everything keeps breaking and I have to keep paying for it WHILE I have a subpar driving experience. The creature comforts are on par with a 90s eco-box. (That is, they are minimal) The performance is also subpar and it's overall just a not as nice car. It would be nice to have something BETTER and that is why I am willing to budget $15k on a new vehicle! (Again, this is why the budget is $15k and NOT $5k!)
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
You're looking at it wrong. I'm not looking at just depreciation, insurance, etc. I'm looking at it overall which says that the car is a "better" car in the sense of it has more power, it is more comfortable, and it is generally nicer. It costs more, yes... Duh. But the reason I don't want to keep the civic is because the COST OUTWEIGHS THE BENEFITS. It is not a good car to drive when everything keeps breaking and I have to keep paying for it WHILE I have a subpar driving experience. The creature comforts are on par with a 90s eco-box. (That is, they are minimal) The performance is also subpar and it's overall just a not as nice car. It would be nice to have something BETTER and that is why I am willing to budget $15k on a new vehicle! (Again, this is why the budget is $15k and NOT $5k!)

I'm not looking at anything wrong, I asked you to properly define what you meant by "better." I am not wrong about any of the economic discussion I posted. It is cheaper than a BMW, and thus a better financial decision. If you do not want to consider financial concerns, or rank them lower than other features, that's fine. However, that is not how you framed the OP in this thread.

It would help clarify things if you posted a list of characteristics that you want out of your car, in order of priority. Please do so.
 

Murloc

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2008
5,382
65
91
If I'm in a traffic jam on my motorcycles for a long time (>15 minutes) my hand will start to cramp up a little because there just aren't a lot of situations where you have to hold a fist for 15 minutes straight.
I've never seen a motorcycle or a scooter stuck in traffic.
I think nobody in Europe except teen-agers would drive scooters (people who like two wheels not just out of cost and practicality usually buy a traditional motorcycle) if there wasn't that advantage.

It would help clarify things if you posted a list of characteristics that you want out of your car, in order of priority. Please do so.
there clearly isn't such a list if he managed to put a utilitarian hybrid car in the same list as a BMW used car. It's not even clear how much does money matter. 15k$ alone means nothing because it doesn't account for maintenance and fuel costs.
 
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JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
there clearly isn't such a list if he managed to put a utilitarian hybrid car in the same list as a BMW used car. It's not even clear how much does money matter. 15k$ alone means nothing because it doesn't account for maintenance and fuel costs.

It's almost as if I asked him to get his goddamn shit together before spewing drivel all over ATG, but trying to be a little nice about it. :awe:

Seriously though, making a list like this, and then a decision matrix, will force him to actually think about what he wants and what he doesn't. This is far superior to the rambling, inconsistent, and scattered set of requirements that's in his head, but that he can't articulate to us until we suggest something that violates one of these unspoken requirements.
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,810
45
91
It's almost as if I asked him to get his goddamn shit together before spewing drivel all over ATG, but trying to be a little nice about it. :awe:

Seriously though, making a list like this, and then a decision matrix, will force him to actually think about what he wants and what he doesn't. This is far superior to the rambling, inconsistent, and scattered set of requirements that's in his head, but that he can't articulate to us until we suggest something that violates one of these unspoken requirements.

People can have multiple wants and wants that are equivalent to each other. () Think about it, brah!
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
People can have multiple wants and wants that are equivalent to each other. () Think about it, brah!

Then rank them equivalently. That's what I do.

I have yet to see a single post from you with evidence that you used your brain. I know it must be really hard to do, but you've gotta try, for the sake of the internet.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,513
221
106
People can have multiple wants and wants that are equivalent to each other. () Think about it, brah!
You'll rarely find wants that are exactly equivalent. The fact that you're cross shopping a performance sport sedan with an econobox hybrid doesn't indicate any equivalent qualities other than initial expenditure.
 
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