My Opinion on BTX

[batmanuel]

Originally posted by: Yomicron

Originally posted by: biostud666

I don't mind they move the stuff around on the motherboard for optimization but I don't understand why they need to mirror the board and use different plugs.

By mirroring the board the video card will now face up, so that it can be better cooled.

Plus you can finally see those bitchin' new GPU coolers at last. Nothing sucks more than a nice pimped out graphics card, only to wind up never seeing that neat cooling device the whole time you have that card installed in your case.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: batmanuel

Originally posted by: anthrax
BTX IMO is porked...


There is no way a Athlon 64 can conform BTX standard on where the CPU is placed.

Why ? There is no way you can route even length traces from the Intergrated memory controller to the DIMM sockets.


Ah , but may be this is an advantage to Intel.

You could say, BTX is an attempt by Intel to change the standards and make life difficult for mobo who want make BTX Athlon64 mobo...
Its a classic case of a dominant company trying change the standards inorder to hinder the competition.

The thing is, though, that Intel is known to be transitioning their Xeons to an integrated controller as well, since it is a lot better than a shared FSB in SMP systems. Since just about all new stuff introduced in the Xeons (like Hyperthreading) eventually make their way down to the normal desktop processors, then this strategy could bite them in the butt later if they want to change their memory controllers design.

There was so much crap about having to use 6 and 8-layer boards w/ their dual-channel controller at first, too. Then Intel came out with a 4-layer reference design using a single layer for each DDR channel.
BTX may not be perfect even for Intel, butsuch problems will be solved in due time.

 

[imported_Emon]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
[Doesn't help? I'm not being helpful to YOU because I refuse to jump on the "It's new so I have to buy it!!!" bandwagon? Lots of "new standards" go NOWHERE because they aren't worth anything.

Now, how about this fat-mouth, go lecture your kids. If you don't have any, find someone who's dumb enough to think that you have something worthwhile to say.

Wow...that was pretty uncalled for. There's no need to get sassy because you're upset about a god damn case standard. Cool down. I didn't mean to sound lecturish, sorry if I did.

My whole point is that the new standard is worth something. Is it revolutionary? No, but it is an improvement. I've seen a lot of people constantly pointing out, in this thread and other on other fora, and they're usually ignored or people just try to shoot them down. Okay, so maybe Intel is pushing it because the Prescott needs it. Now, what exactly is so bad about this? People need to think of it from a business standpoint, not just an AMD fanboy standpoint (again, no one inparticular). People at Intel see a problem with ATX, and wow, it can also help Prescott. What are they supposed to do, not go for it? Comon. I really don't buy all this garbage about Athlon 64s not being able to conform. Now perhaps if I hear it coming from engineers from AMD, but for some strange reason I have trouble believing what a bunch of modders and tweakers have to say, vs the slightest faith that engineers might be able to solve a problem.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Cerb
There was so much crap about having to use 6 and 8-layer boards w/ their dual-channel controller at first, too. Then Intel came out with a 4-layer reference design using a single layer for each DDR channel.
BTX may not be perfect even for Intel, butsuch problems will be solved in due time.

But why introduce a new standard that already has problems that need to be solved before it is adopted? Isn't the idea of a proposed standard to address existing problems, not create new ones. I do think that ATX can be improved upon, but it seems that BTX is not 100% there yet. I would have preferred Intel to propose the BTX standard to the community and request recommendations (like an RFC), as opposed to pushing their ideas as the new standard, like it or not. I think if a different approach had been taken we would ultimatley be getting a better solution for Intel as well as the rest of the stakeholders.

 

[Cerb]

It does solve problems, but I agree that it could use some work, as well.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Emon

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Doesn't help? I'm not being helpful to YOU because I refuse to jump on the "It's new so I have to buy it!!!" bandwagon? Lots of "new standards" go NOWHERE because they aren't worth anything.

Now, how about this fat-mouth, go lecture your kids. If you don't have any, find someone who's dumb enough to think that you have something worthwhile to say.

Wow...that was pretty uncalled for. There's no need to get sassy because you're upset about a god damn case standard. Cool down. I didn't mean to sound lecturish, sorry if I did.[/b].

You fly in here with your high-density BS and have the nerve to say MY response was uncalled for? Just to make it worse you mix lame diminutives like "You're being SASSY!" with a half-assed apology.

Here's a word of advice for you, trick-baby: Don't assume that everyone, EVERYWHERE, is just itching to hear your every thought. And that goes DOUBLE when you're new to a forum and start off LECTURING people who's knowledge level is a mystery to you. Oh, and why should I be upset by something I don't care about? If anyone's riding the emotion train, it's you.

"My whole point is that the new standard is worth something. Is it revolutionary? No, but it is an improvement."

You point is stupid. My case temp and airflow are just fine. You really need to spend less time being a "new standard" evangelist and do some reading on the subject. I have no wish to be a test dummy for something that I find superfluous. If you're so bleeding hot for this YOU buy into it and let the rest of us make up our own minds as the situation develops. IF it develops.

"I've seen a lot of people constantly pointing out, in this thread and other on other fora, and they're usually ignored or people just try to shoot them down."

Huh? :laugh:

"Okay, so maybe Intel is pushing it because the Prescott needs it. Now, what exactly is so bad about this?"

Nothing. But I don't have to lap it up like a thirsty dog either.

"People need to think of it from a business standpoint, not just an AMD fanboy standpoint (again, no one inparticular)."

There you go again, proving how much of a pedantic ass you are. I'll consider the situation from any angle I wish.

"People at Intel see a problem with ATX, and wow, it can also help Prescott."

So everyone, at YOUR (Intel's) behest, should immediatley RUSH out and buy BTX, not to mention a Prescott? Silly rabbit.

"What are they supposed to do, not go for it? Comon."

You come on. Intel is trying to make up for flawed design decisions by forcing people like you to buy new cases, and flex their quickly weakening muscles in the process. If you were breathing regular air you'd see this.

"I really don't buy all this garbage about Athlon 64s not being able to conform."

Who cares what you think?

"Now perhaps if I hear it coming from engineers from AMD, but for some strange reason I have trouble believing what a bunch of modders and tweakers have to say, vs the slightest faith that engineers might be able to solve a problem."

Yeah, I'm sure AMD is interested in explaining their goals and strategy to you. Google is your friend, lickspittle.

 

[Cerb]

Can we here at AT have the forums just skip over certain peoples' posts?

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Cerb
Can we here at AT have the forums just skip over certain peoples' posts?

If you have something to say, say it. Don't be shy.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: Cerb
Can we here at AT have the forums just skip over certain peoples' posts?

If you have something to say, say it. Don't be shy.

Nah, I think I'll leave the Iam's Troll Food in the cupboard.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: Cerb
Can we here at AT have the forums just skip over certain peoples' posts?

If you have something to say, say it. Don't be shy.

Nah, I think I'll leave the Iam's Troll Food in the cupboard.

I'm still not reading you, Cerb. Why are you trying to be coy? You made a snide comment for no reason that I know of and can't stand up behind it. Keep in mind, I haven't said "boo" to you.

 

[azndelite6983]

So can I ask when this strayed from a simple discussion of BTX to a flurry of personal attacks?

Bottom line, I'll wait and see how BTX evolves, but for the foreseeable future, I couldn't care less.

 

[imported_Emon]

Yeah, really. I don't see how anyone would have anything to lose by BTX being the new standard. It's not like you have to rush out and buy it.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Emon
Yeah, really. I don't see how anyone would have anything to lose by BTX being the new standard. It's not like you have to rush out and buy it.

Yeah, really? You come off like anything said against BTX was an unpatriotic blow against Intel, and you were damn insulting and patronizing about it. If you can't stand being aggressively countered, you should frame your views like an adult and can the lectures.

"You know, just because there's a new standard doesn't mean what you have gets any worse. Yelling "omg intel prescott screwing everyone else!" really doesn't help. Video card not getting cooled? How's it good in ATX without modification? With BTX, at least you can have blowholes at the top or have the power supply take the hot air out. Hard drives, optical drives? Gimme a break. Opticals barely get hot. Yeah, they are warm, but they don't need cooling. Hard drives only need cooling if they're over 7,200 RPM and/or if you have a lot of them really close together. Same with RAM. Those are all gimmicks for cooling. I've been running 24, 32, 52x etc CD drives for years without any additional cooling, in many machines. And you know what? None of them have died. I've had arrays of IDE disks touching each other, those never died either. So unless you manage to overclock your CDs or HDDs, that department is fine."

Do you talk to perfect strangers like this in person? I don't think so. You edited this and you STILL come off like you think you're talking to a bunch of carrot-heads. Stop trying to play like you're innocent. Talk to others like you yourself want to be talked too.

 

[azndelite6983]

pp?

 

[imported_Emon]

You're right, that's my mistake. I should have done a better job revising my post. As I've tried to say, I don't mean to come off like that, and I'm sorry that I did. I don't know how many times I've said it and how many times you've ignored it.

 

[themorningbells]

HardWarrior you fxcking nazi, relax.

 

[jrphoenix]

Originally posted by: Emon

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
[Doesn't help? I'm not being helpful to YOU because I refuse to jump on the "It's new so I have to buy it!!!" bandwagon? Lots of "new standards" go NOWHERE because they aren't worth anything.

Now, how about this fat-mouth, go lecture your kids. If you don't have any, find someone who's dumb enough to think that you have something worthwhile to say.

Wow...that was pretty uncalled for. There's no need to get sassy because you're upset about a god damn case standard. Cool down. I didn't mean to sound lecturish, sorry if I did.

My whole point is that the new standard is worth something. Is it revolutionary? No, but it is an improvement. I've seen a lot of people constantly pointing out, in this thread and other on other fora, and they're usually ignored or people just try to shoot them down. Okay, so maybe Intel is pushing it because the Prescott needs it. Now, what exactly is so bad about this? People need to think of it from a business standpoint, not just an AMD fanboy standpoint (again, no one inparticular). People at Intel see a problem with ATX, and wow, it can also help Prescott. What are they supposed to do, not go for it? Comon. I really don't buy all this garbage about Athlon 64s not being able to conform. Now perhaps if I hear it coming from engineers from AMD, but for some strange reason I have trouble believing what a bunch of modders and tweakers have to say, vs the slightest faith that engineers might be able to solve a problem.

My thought about AMD not conforming... If I were AMD and competing with Intel. I would make them spend heaps of money and drag my feet to conform to the BTX standard. Why? Intel has loads of cash that I would want them to waste on pushing a standard while make a lot of money with the better, cooler processors of today. AMD can then quietly jump on when prices are down for a minimal investment. Simple, let the competition bleed on this issue and then jump on when and if the price is right. A smart business decision by AMD

 

[themorningbells]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
...perfect strangers...

Good show by the way.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Emon
You're right, that's my mistake. I should have done a better job revising my post. As I've tried to say, I don't mean to come off like that, and I'm sorry that I did. I don't know how many times I've said it and how many times you've ignored it.

You can't even admit fault without a back-handed jab. Nice. I saw your first apology and didn't ignore it. Because of your interesting phrasing, I didn't accept it. Since you took the time to explain yourself I do now.

:thumbsup:

Edit: To get things back on track, I found this while looking at the options. Seems a lot better than "Okay, it's BTX TIME!!!"

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: themorningbells
HardWarrior you fxcking nazi, relax.

You focking relax, stupid.

 

[BFG10K]

I think it's the logical step forward - CPUs and GPUs are getting hotter and hotter so it's about time we spaced them apart more to get better cooling.

I also don't buy the conspiracy theory that Intel is trying to kill AMD with the new form factor.

 

[Alkaline5]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
You focking relax, stupid.

You might think you're defending yourself, but all you're doing is being disruptive and petty. Would you just give it up already? No one here knows you, so it's not even worth posting unless you're going to be constructive.

 

[RaNDoMMAI]

Originally posted by: Hyperlite

1) Smaller form factors-Whats the advantage? the only effect i can see that having is that i will have less room to work with when i'm building/working on rigs. i don't care how big the thing is, within reason of course.
2)quieter overall systems-i don't care how loud my rig is. i want it running as cool and fast as possible. IMO, someone who wants to keep a OC'ed rig cool shouldn't care about about how loud it is. FANS MAKE NOISE. if you care that much, water cool it.

I cannot sleep if i had some horrible computer buzz right next to me. I think making computers quieter is becoming VERY popular.

also, it is much more fun trying to have good OC and quiet computer. i personally dont care if i can sqeeze out a couple more mhz if i had to get a screaming fan installed!

also, SFF is very popular nowadays. It may not appeal to you, but it does to alot of people so why not improve on it. It doesnt always need to have an advantage. It just needs to be "cool". what is the point of have lights in a PC right?

just my two cents
~RaNDoM

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Alkaline5

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
You focking relax, stupid.

You might think you're defending yourself, but all you're doing is being disruptive and petty. Would you just give it up already? No one here knows you, so it's not even worth posting unless you're going to be constructive.

And who are YOU? Am I supposed to be chastened by you telling my "No one knows you here?" The truth is, clown, none of us knows each other here. The only binding factor is interest. I?d much prefer cordial discourse, but if you have a problem with me defending myself as >I< see fit, you need to go whine to a moderator so he can tell you to fock off too.

 

[Alkaline5]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
I?d much prefer cordial discourse, but... fock off too.

:roll: