My opinion on the new ati cards, g70 and g70go....

[booomups]

hi there...

this is no ATI bashing, please read the whole thing.

I will just ad some thoughts that i think are either missing or.... whatever...

1800xt vs g70gtx: how about some benches with both the cards having the same memory speed?
As far as I know is memory one of the big cost factors and for nvidia partners to update their products with the same a mount of memory, running at the same speed is just toooo easy.

-generally ati really wanted their whole line of cards windows vista conform, hence 256 mbram where it s not really usefull.

- anyone know why we dont see any dual, quad, octave channel memory on graphiccards, as far as i know its bandwith and not really acces time that counts there.
and since a graphic card is a product on its own, it seems less complicated to implement, than on a mainboard. i really never read anything about that subject.

- nvidia released their g70 go gtx chips, succesfully so far.
why dont they just implement such powersavings ((features?))) in all coming desctopcards too.

good powersaving would give them a very good company image and .. and.. and... many of us would pay a little more for that. mE think.
( i already underclock my 68gt... but thats just a part of what a notebookchip does)


if ati originally really planed to release theire cards with 32 pipes now or monthes ago, they really get cudos for still delivering a good gtx competitor, and hopefully they get the 16 left dickis working on time for the nvidia answers.

cudos too for getting on a good path regarding image quality, maybe enough in order to forgive paperlaunching crossfire, as half harted answer to sli.


regarding crossfire, i wouldnt know how to figure out how many crossfire edition cards to give to the market. So, what ratio between the master and slave cards should they deliver?

nvidia really got an advantage there.

d'be happy if you would discuss and answer to some of those rantings....



descto or desktop... feature or whatever... please help my grammar ;-)

 

[booomups]

just tell me if my modest grammar is the reason for missing answers, or tell me any reasons you can think of anyway, s my first post... so... should i just wait?

 

[imported_Kensai]

- nvidia released their g70 go gtx chips, succesfully so far.
why dont they just implement such powersavings ((features?))) in all coming desctopcards too.

You are very wrong in that. The 7800GTX desktop chip has already had 6xxx mobile GPU, power saving features integrated into it. That's why the 7800GTX consumes less energy.

 

[Corporate Thug]

why same mem speed? shoud we also disable 8 pipelines on the GTX and then bench?

 

[route66]

I've wondered about your questions too (the memory and the GTX GO chip) - it's not your grammar, I'm guessing no one knows the answers.

 

[rbV5]

- nvidia released their g70 go gtx chips, succesfully so far.
why dont they just implement such powersavings ((features?))) in all coming desctopcards too.

.

I think that you'll find that thats exactly what they did with the desktop parts. The 7800GTX's runs cooler on less power than their prior High End parts despite being much more powerful.

 

[Acanthus]

The memory controller on all modern graphics cards is 4 64 bit channels.

512bit (8 channels) would drive up production costs too high as they would have to add multiple layers to the PCB.

 

[booomups]

same mem speed because:

it is not the product of either nvidia or ati, the retailers have full freedom in choosing what ram that they will give the cards..... as long as it runs above the ati or nvidia given specs.... else they just can't sell it as a full gtx or a full xt in atis case.

--> it doesnt matter at all what memory clock ati or nvidia gives for their cards.......

the card builder can chose the ram.. so they can also chose the price.


so a bench with the same memory timings makes sense to me.......
you can see which is the better graphicchip on more equal terms.

disabling some pipes is definitely not right in order to battle on the same ground.



except if they still buy ram and chips in bundles from atin and nvidia.

 

[golem]

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
why same mem speed? shoud we also disable 8 pipelines on the GTX and then bench?

I think the OP was suggesting same mem speeds because increasing the Mem speeds on GTX boards is a rather easy alteration that their board partners could do?

 

[booomups]

thanks for the answer... so

4 times 64
that means they have 4 single data ram's in quad channel or...
4 times gddr3 ( graphic DOUBLE DATA ram ) in quad channel ?

just compared to mainboard dualchannel ddr or ddr2?

 

[booomups]

Originally posted by: rbV5

- nvidia released their g70 go gtx chips, succesfully so far.
why dont they just implement such powersavings ((features?))) in all coming desctopcards too.

.

I think that you'll find that thats exactly what they did with the desktop parts. The 7800GTX's runs cooler on less power than their prior High End parts despite being much more powerful.

can someone verify this? g70gtx and g70 go gtx beeing the same?

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: booomups

Originally posted by: rbV5

- nvidia released their g70 go gtx chips, succesfully so far.
why dont they just implement such powersavings ((features?))) in all coming desctopcards too.

.

I think that you'll find that thats exactly what they did with the desktop parts. The 7800GTX's runs cooler on less power than their prior High End parts despite being much more powerful.

can someone verify this? g70gtx and g70 go gtx beeing the same?

Verify it? look at the single slot 7800GTX compared to the dual slot 6800U.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: booomups
thanks for the answer... so

4 times 64
that means they have 4 single data ram's in quad channel or...
4 times gddr3 ( graphic DOUBLE DATA ram ) in quad channel ?

just compared to mainboard dualchannel ddr or ddr2?

X1800XT has 8x32 memory channnels, not 4x64. The memory controller itself is a central unit, ringed with dual 256 bit busses at the edges running at opposite directions with 4 stops which contain a pair of Dram channels each for data transfers. You should look at some of the reviews for a complete look at ATI's new memory architecture.

 

[booomups]

yeah i should......... all the reviews just seemed sooooo loooooooong ;-)

but all in all it means that ati and nvidia do their own thing regarding getting the most out of the memory connections.


now that yu say th that htose things are explained in the reviews..... seems just worth it.

 

[booomups]

but i mean.. hell no.. no way...

so the parts in the notebooks will be the same as in the towers... except for some out connectinos.


i read a test about the go where they said that the lappy even run 2 hours or so in dvd mode....


even better if i know that all the sli setups arent just munching al the blue power while not gaming at all......... i already knew that the cards generaly sucked less in idle..... but does that idle mode compare to the normal 2d usage of integrated chips?

maybe not the right tiopic but.. anyway... d be nice to know.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: booomups
but i mean.. hell no.. no way...

so the parts in the notebooks will be the same as in the towers... except for some out connectinos.


i read a test about the go where they said that the lappy even run 2 hours or so in dvd mode....


even better if i know that all the sli setups arent just munching al the blue power while not gaming at all......... i already knew that the cards generaly sucked less in idle..... but does that idle mode compare to the normal 2d usage of integrated chips?

maybe not the right tiopic but.. anyway... d be nice to know.

You can see that they are essentially the same Link.

 

[booomups]

ok yeah.. thats the thing i already looked at... maybe we 2 understand this differently:

NVIDIA claims that its desktop part was based on its mobile development

and:

(The question remains - if the GTX based on the mobile GPU, why the heck is it so big?)



maybe we will get to know more someday

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: booomups
thanks for the answer... so

4 times 64
that means they have 4 single data ram's in quad channel or...
4 times gddr3 ( graphic DOUBLE DATA ram ) in quad channel ?

just compared to mainboard dualchannel ddr or ddr2?

X1800XT has 8x32 memory channnels, not 4x64. The memory controller itself is a central unit, ringed with dual 256 bit busses at the edges running at opposite directions with 4 stops which contain a pair of Dram channels each for data transfers. You should look at some of the reviews for a complete look at ATI's new memory architecture.

Its still a 256 bit memory interface, the ring bus just made it more efficient internally inside the GPU.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: booomups
thanks for the answer... so

4 times 64
that means they have 4 single data ram's in quad channel or...
4 times gddr3 ( graphic DOUBLE DATA ram ) in quad channel ?

just compared to mainboard dualchannel ddr or ddr2?

X1800XT has 8x32 memory channnels, not 4x64. The memory controller itself is a central unit, ringed with dual 256 bit busses at the edges running at opposite directions with 4 stops which contain a pair of Dram channels each for data transfers. You should look at some of the reviews for a complete look at ATI's new memory architecture.

Its still a 256 bit memory interface, the ring bus just made it more efficient internally inside the GPU.

I think I said 256 bit busses, correct. My point is that it is not the typical 4x64 configuration, but rather an entirely different memory controller configuration.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: booomups
thanks for the answer... so

4 times 64
that means they have 4 single data ram's in quad channel or...
4 times gddr3 ( graphic DOUBLE DATA ram ) in quad channel ?

just compared to mainboard dualchannel ddr or ddr2?

X1800XT has 8x32 memory channnels, not 4x64. The memory controller itself is a central unit, ringed with dual 256 bit busses at the edges running at opposite directions with 4 stops which contain a pair of Dram channels each for data transfers. You should look at some of the reviews for a complete look at ATI's new memory architecture.

Its still a 256 bit memory interface, the ring bus just made it more efficient internally inside the GPU.

I think I said 256 bit busses, correct. My point is that it is not the typical 4x64 configuration, but rather an entirely different memory controller configuration.

Yeah i wasnt correcting you, i was just making it clear that the memory modules are actually 256 bit.