My over-engineered holiday lights - 2018 version!

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AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,507
3,211
136
This is so geat! I may have cried a little when I saw Voyager in your window.
 
Last edited:
Mar 11, 2004
23,252
5,698
146
OP, you two need a bigger canvas.

As for doing it commercially, you should look for businesses that could use some pizazz. Obviously if you know someone that has their own bar or restaurant where you could do like a new signage to help them stand out, and I bet you could do some nice things inside as well. Which you could maybe do self contained digital signage (where you put some light boards behind plexiglass) that you could sell (think something like those chalkboards that a lot of little Bistros and things like that use, maybe put an LCD panel or LED projector in there - if you could figure out how to make holograms inside of like a plexiglass container would be awesome). D'oh, and movie theaters. Or maybe a professional photographer that could use some interesting new lighting setups (maybe something like fireflies for couples pictures).

Also, if you were interested, this could be something to pitch to say a local high school as a STEM outreach program. I think it might even be able to garner some good interest from girls. A good first step would be to have them learn to make one of those LED light kits that you put on like TVs and stuff (where they learn about the LEDs, the power aspects, and the controllers and how to program things). And then as they advance they could maybe do light setups for Prom and other events (maybe spruce up plays?). But where they could have sorta building blocks that they can carryover year to year (while adding new ones over time).

Oh, a digital or holographic snowglobe could be neat. On its own, but also as say something like those "chinese lantern" style lights you have framing the driveway. Which for the commercial aspect, lava lamp type of lights could be an interesting wrinkle.

I'm surprised LEGO hasn't made lighting blocks, especially for say like the Technics car kits and things like that. Apparently they kinda have but its different from what I was thinking (granted they need to build something durable, but I was expecting more of like a whole shaped block that lights up from an LED placed in the

If you're gonna do themes, building something specific to that (like in this instance, a model of the USS enterprise, or maybe multiple ones, like smaller ones that would be single lights, where you could do those light cadence transitions and it'd look like the Enterprise taking off in Warp Speed; maybe simple shells that you could swap over lights depending on what theme you're doing so you can just keep shells instead of having too much custom specific to any one theme). Ones nested together (so the smallest in the center and concentric larger shaped ones) could give the appearance of direct on motion/size changes (so say you do a Mario themed one, where a mushroom makes them grow in size).
 

slugg

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
4,723
78
91
OP, you two need a bigger canvas.

As for doing it commercially, you should look for businesses that could use some pizazz. Obviously if you know someone that has their own bar or restaurant where you could do like a new signage to help them stand out, and I bet you could do some nice things inside as well. Which you could maybe do self contained digital signage (where you put some light boards behind plexiglass) that you could sell (think something like those chalkboards that a lot of little Bistros and things like that use, maybe put an LCD panel or LED projector in there - if you could figure out how to make holograms inside of like a plexiglass container would be awesome). D'oh, and movie theaters. Or maybe a professional photographer that could use some interesting new lighting setups (maybe something like fireflies for couples pictures).

Also, if you were interested, this could be something to pitch to say a local high school as a STEM outreach program. I think it might even be able to garner some good interest from girls. A good first step would be to have them learn to make one of those LED light kits that you put on like TVs and stuff (where they learn about the LEDs, the power aspects, and the controllers and how to program things). And then as they advance they could maybe do light setups for Prom and other events (maybe spruce up plays?). But where they could have sorta building blocks that they can carryover year to year (while adding new ones over time).

Oh, a digital or holographic snowglobe could be neat. On its own, but also as say something like those "chinese lantern" style lights you have framing the driveway. Which for the commercial aspect, lava lamp type of lights could be an interesting wrinkle.

I'm surprised LEGO hasn't made lighting blocks, especially for say like the Technics car kits and things like that. Apparently they kinda have but its different from what I was thinking (granted they need to build something durable, but I was expecting more of like a whole shaped block that lights up from an LED placed in the

If you're gonna do themes, building something specific to that (like in this instance, a model of the USS enterprise, or maybe multiple ones, like smaller ones that would be single lights, where you could do those light cadence transitions and it'd look like the Enterprise taking off in Warp Speed; maybe simple shells that you could swap over lights depending on what theme you're doing so you can just keep shells instead of having too much custom specific to any one theme). Ones nested together (so the smallest in the center and concentric larger shaped ones) could give the appearance of direct on motion/size changes (so say you do a Mario themed one, where a mushroom makes them grow in size).

All good ideas and we’ve thought about it. What it boils down to is time and money that we just don’t have. The money part is two-fold: we need to spend money to be able to offer those products/services, but we’d also need to quit our day jobs to have the time to do these ideas, which then increases our money deficit.

We’ve intentionally avoided making theme-specific props. We think they’d be amazing, but then it prevents us from re-using the work for another theme. Again, this is about time and money.

In short, we need more people involved if we want to turn this into something bigger. We need volunteers, partners, sponsors, etc, to take it to the next level - we’re maxed out!

It’s hard to find the right people. I will say this - we will have a collaborator for 2019 that is very, very good at what he does. He’ll be partnering with us for designing one of our two new shows for 2019. Yes - we’re doing TWO themes for 2019! We’re crazy.

Congrats! And hopefully the house has a much larger street facing facade. EMBIGGEN THE SHOW!
We would love to embiggen the show! We also desperately need to embiggen the house. Trying the best we can with the cards we were dealt.

As far as the show goes with relation to the house, our biggest problem with our current house is the fact that the front is L-shaped. The garage sticks out, making it impossible to view the show from any angle to the left of the house. This limits the already limited available space, so it makes the placement of the lights that much more difficult.

So... we are looking for a unicorn house. It must have a “flat” front, must be one story (I’m too afraid to put lights up on a second story), must have a 3 car garage, must have space for people to park out front, cannot have trees obstructing the view that we’re not allowed to relocate, be zoned for good schools, must have 250+ amp electrical service, and ceilings higher than 8 feet (which is our current ceiling height - the wife feels claustrophobic).

We’ve been trying to move for 2 years and we’re always just barely under the line of being able to afford it. We try again year after year and the market just keeps going up; it’s a moving target. We’ve been busting our butts trying to make it happen. Let’s hope 2019 is the year!
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,116
30,067
146
With more money, we could buy, rather than build, tools and equipment. There is a massive effort in custom software and physically building the lights, both of which could be avoided by just spending more money. Trust me, the commercial stuff is EXPENSIVE.

As far as a side business, I’m very open to ideas, but I can’t seem to find much demand for this type of service. But I’d love to do something more creative like this! I do have a good day job, but I thrive when I’m part of a creative process.

That said, I do have another tangential interest: graphics programming. I don’t currently do it professionally, but I’m trying to get enough hobby projects under my belt to potentially switch careers without taking a loss in pay. I currently engineer distributed systems software.

plenty of lazy ultra-wealthy people would probably pay a service several grand to do the work for them. If you can work out the labor costs to hire people and material costs to install systems for individuals over one or two days, you might be able to swing it? But this sounds very complicated, so you probably need to spend the time working and designing set packages, where there is maybe a choice between 5 or 10 different programs so that it can be deployed quickly from client to client. But then, everyone's house is a bit different, so I'm not sure how much further that complicates things. And then, how many clients would you need per season to make the costs and time worthwhile?
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,941
8,198
126
And then, how many clients would you need per season to make the costs and time worthwhile?
I'm guessing a lot. I don't think this something that could be done on a small scale with minimal personnel. He'd have to make up the salary of two engineers with sales including purchase/maintenance of gear. I could see it as a side money project for small shops/bars/whatever assuming the work's enjoyed, but for a living, he'd need a big professional setup, with big professional expenses.
 

slugg

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
4,723
78
91
plenty of lazy ultra-wealthy people would probably pay a service several grand to do the work for them. If you can work out the labor costs to hire people and material costs to install systems for individuals over one or two days, you might be able to swing it? But this sounds very complicated, so you probably need to spend the time working and designing set packages, where there is maybe a choice between 5 or 10 different programs so that it can be deployed quickly from client to client. But then, everyone's house is a bit different, so I'm not sure how much further that complicates things. And then, how many clients would you need per season to make the costs and time worthwhile?

Differences in layout are a major time consumer and hurdle for “recycling” shows between different houses, parks, or commercial buildings. We do have a solution, however it’s 100% novel and would require a LOT of software development.

We were approached by an HOA to do a light show on their clubhouse. To give you an idea, our first year on our house cost us about $500 and we had about 2500 lights. Their clubhouse would have had about the same amount of lights, but we quoted $25k. It’s for various reasons.

One is because all electrical components and enclosures in a commercial installation must be RoHS compliant and the entire installation must be inspected by a fire marshall. This isn’t a technical issue, but we’d have to hire a subcontractor to build/assemble all the electronics to spec, and they need to then pay another contractor to get the RoHS compliance certification. We save time and money on our own house by skipping all of that. It’s not any less safe; it just isn’t inspected or certified. In fact, we believe our build quality is superior to most, given that out of the 31 light shows we’re aware about in Florida, ours was the only one to not have an outage during our insane weather. So to hire the right contractor that matches or exceeds our build quality, while also ticking the other boxes, is not cheap.

Then there’s the design and engineering. You can’t just string a bunch of lights up and call it a day. Every single light is very intentionally placed according to measurements, electrical outlet locations, viewing distances, viewing angles, etc. We need to account for distances of transmitted data, wire gauges, wire lengths, power consumption, voltage drop, and many other factors. Then there’s the actual placement of each individual light, taking into account view obstruction, projection angles, and other light things. We call this entire process “physical modeling,” as opposed to the higher level design that we call “logical modeling.” Essentially, the physical model is used for the engineering and assembly/building aspect, whereas the logical model is used during the creative process and they’re somewhat decoupled. Anyway, we don’t bill ourselves the time it takes to do this, but we’d have to bill a client. Take our salaries and do the arithmetic, account for differences in taxes between employer income and contractor income, and that’s our cost per hour. And there are many hours involved here.

Then there’s our storyboarding process, similar to how movies are prototyped before they go into production. This depends entirely on the client and how decisive they are, or if they’d just give us free reign.

For commercial installations, intellectual property licensing is also an expense. It also places certain restrictions on the creative process, depending on the license.

Then there’s the sequencing. The lights need to receive instructions and we need to program those instructions. If you want sequencing at the level of quality of our Star Trek show, that’s about 1 hour for every 10 seconds of music. If you want it at the level of our Frosty The Snowman sequence, which is by far our lowest quality, it’ll be somewhere around 1 hour for every 30 seconds of music.

If we were to break even and not make a profit, doing the show for that HOA would cost about $25k. And that also means we’d be killing our social life in the process, taking up ALL of our spare time. For the right project, we’re willing to do it, though.

Their budget was $500. After spending about 4 hours on their quote, they tell me that. Yay.


I'm guessing a lot. I don't think this something that could be done on a small scale with minimal personnel. He'd have to make up the salary of two engineers with sales including purchase/maintenance of gear. I could see it as a side money project for small shops/bars/whatever assuming the work's enjoyed, but for a living, he'd need a big professional setup, with big professional expenses.
You pretty much nailed it. But if we do get approached for the right project that is artistically interesting and would provide good exposure, we’re ready to take the risk and do something amazing, hoping it’ll lead to something greater.
 

slugg

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
4,723
78
91
Oh and for commercial installations, I forgot to mention that I’d also have to contract installers that are licensed, insured, and bonded. And I’d have to train them - this isn’t the same as stringing up normal lights.
 

FeuerFrei

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2005
9,144
929
126
I honestly got bored after 5 min. Don't know whether to chalk it up to video production, light layout, the music selection, or the lack of a sense of progress - of being taken on a journey. Kind of devolved into randomness. The music means nothing to me (not a Trekkie). The projection on the windows renewed a bit of interest though.

You should do a welcoming sequence for when you pull into the driveway - triggered by the door-opener. Add some lighting to the garage interior. Make a grand entrance and/or exit.

Thanks for posting though, always fun to see what's possible.
 

slugg

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
4,723
78
91
I honestly got bored after 5 min. Don't know whether to chalk it up to video production, light layout, the music selection, or the lack of a sense of progress - of being taken on a journey. Kind of devolved into randomness. The music means nothing to me (not a Trekkie). The projection on the windows renewed a bit of interest though.

You should do a welcoming sequence for when you pull into the driveway - triggered by the door-opener. Add some lighting to the garage interior. Make a grand entrance and/or exit.

Thanks for posting though, always fun to see what's possible.
Believe it or not, we actually agree with you. The Star Trek show is just a medley of songs and not a cohesive story. This was actually “plan B” because we ran out of time. We had a lot of curveballs in 2018, including the death of my father.

We’re usually pretty secretive about our creative process, so I won’t go into what “plan A” was, but it was a complete story with some never-been-done effects. It would have increased our expenses about $1500 to pull off, plus we knew it would only appeal to a much smaller audience. But it would have been artistically superior.

Our Star Wars show is absolutely a story - you may like that one better. We haven’t filmed and edited it yet for 2018, but you can find the 2017 version on our YouTube channel. It’s about 85% similar to the 2018 version. The 2018 version fixes some sequencing errors, some technical errors, adds a few new effects, adds the THX sound test intro with the “a long time ago in a galaxy far far away” text in the window, and adds “STAR WARS” text scrolling down the lights during the opening crawl. We’ll probably have a video up in a few days.

Also, we are NOT good at video production. We’ve been offered help for filming and editing, but those people are nowhere to be found when we actually need their help. So this is what we can do with limited resources and zero experience with video production.

lol. Did you still give them the $25k quote? What was their reaction?
They gave me their budget AFTER I gave them the quote. This was after countless requests for their budget before starting the quote. They kept saying they had a healthy budget, to not worry about it and just put together a quote. Giant waste of time. Now I won’t do a quote without charging; that’ll filter out the tire kickers.
 
Reactions: FeuerFrei

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
We have lots of tricks up our sleeves and, to our knowledge, we do it very differently from the rest of the DIY light shows (there are many out there). If I told you our secrets, I’d have to blast you with a photon torpedo. But I’ll give you some hints.

1. Want to get started? Look up the app “Vixen.” We don’t actually use it, but drew some inspiration from it.

2. We are both software engineers. We essentially duct tape together many, many open source projects and code our own software on top of it to make this happen. Take a look at OLA: Open Lighting Architecture.

3. Learn image processing and basic rendering engine type stuff. And I do mean code (C/C++), not Photoshop!

4. Get really good at aural music theory. A good ear goes a long way!

5. Get a wife that tolerates your nerdiness. This should actually be step 1.



I don’t even know what a CoolCoin is. I’m not that cool! Can I redeem it for a chance to be cool? Also, what is a “Mayne?”
LOL, OK, I haven't dabbled in C/C++ since the early 90's and even then I struggled with it, as for aural music theory I would actually be OK, I used to get paid just to run lights at a Disco way, way back when, you had to know the music really well and have a plan as to what was going to happen and when.
 
Reactions: slugg
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