My pearly 940X4 and a 4850X2 + 4850

[Antman56]

Hello everyone,

It is my first time starting a thread at this forum and I am going to share my results of my Phenom 940X4 with a trifire of 4850's. I have posted this is multiple forums (including Tomshardware and ATI's Crossfire forum) to help people get their foot in the door. Finding info on success has been pitiful at best. It sounds simple, but it was actually terrible. Getting these things to tri-fire was one of the worst experiences I ever had... which is pretty over-dramatic (I did just graduate from GaTech... which was WAY WAY worse).



*IF YOU ARE USING ASUS 4850s (like tons of other people, not sure if this applies to 4870s), PLEASE UPDATE THE CARDS BIOS FIRST. IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THAT SHOULD BE THE PROBLEM... BUT TRUST ME IT IS!!!



Anyways, back to my setup. I currently have my 3.0 GHz CPU @ 3.53 (17@208). I have my integrated memory controller and L3 cache running @ 2288 Mhz (208 x 11) and I have my ram running at 1109 (208 x 5.33).



*note - overclocking my processors northbridge (integrated memory controller and L3 cache) did increase the IPC from what I can tell. I am scoring equal or slightly above most 3.7 Ghz Phenom 2's (atleast as far as friends are concerned). It also brought my memory bandwidth from 9.96 GB/s to 12.87 GB/s (pretty radical increase).*

My computer running 3DMarks 2006 at default settings:

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...TI4850X3700-1000-1.jpg

My computer running 3DMarks 2006 at 1920x1080 8xAA:

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...50X3700-10501920-1.jpg

My computer running 3DMarks Vantage at Performance Settings:

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...50X3700-1000Perf-2.jpg

My computer running 3DMarks Vantage at High Settings:

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...50X3700-1000High-2.jpg


After looking at these, it is pretty obvious that my score in 3DMarks2006 is a lot more CPU bottlenecked than a lot of the top-end machines capable of mid 20000's and up. The SM2 Tests ( The first 2) and the SM3 Tests (The last 2) are only using two cores for the in-game portions of the benchmark, thus Vantage is a better benchmark in my case... as I can only manage to push this kind of GPU power with all 4 processors. My GPU Score (all that matters) is on par with a Geforce 295!

EDIT: Fixed Typos and Updated my 3DMark Vantage Score due to driver update (Now running Catalyst 9.1).

 

[Denithor]

Welcome to the forums!

Sounds like a pretty nice rig. How well does it handle real-life gaming? You should run some game benchmarks to see several things.

1) CPU stock vs overclocked
2) IMC stock vs overclocked <-- really interested in this
3) 1 vs 2 vs 3 GPUs
4) Effect of overclocking the GPU(s)

 

[heyheybooboo]

Praise be da Ramblin' Wreck. Welcome!

As you note, upping the NB/IMC generally increases bandwidth and reduces latency with the arch. It's not 1:1 but it's a quite respectable gain. This seems to be the case going back to the earliest Phenoms. It looks good in synthetics but like Denithor it would be nice to see how it impacts gaming and your everyday tasks.

Could OC'ing your RAMs may be holding back your cpu clock? Can you lock your memory at 1066MHz? Is this a 790gx at x8/x4/x8 or a 790FX at x16/x8/x8? SB750?

Inquiring minds want to know ...

 

[MegaWorks]

*IF YOU ARE USING ASUS 4850s (like tons of other people, not sure if this applies to 4870s), PLEASE UPDATE THE CARDS BIOS FIRST. IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THAT SHOULD BE THE PROBLEM... BUT TRUST ME IT IS!!!

Upgrading the bios to resolve the blue screen of death "atikmdag.sys" right? But which bios resolves this error the latest from ASUS?

 

[razor2025]

Congrats on escaping the "Shaft". What did you study?

Oh and nice setup. If I had more cash, I'd love to step up to high-end sometime. It' hard to justify the cost for myself though. What made you decide on doing 3x 4850 instead of just dong 2x 4850x2?

 

[Antman56]

Upgrading the bios to resolve the blue screen of death "atikmdag.sys" right? But which bios resolves this error the latest from ASUS?

The new Asus Bios also corrected the problem of no "crossfireX" option showing up in the CCC. It would cause my X2 to work by itself and the ASUS 4850 to act like an individual card. I tried every driver under the son. Of course the only two driver that I found success with was the catalyst 8.10 hotfix and the 8.12 hotfix. The games however increase exponentially with 8.12 hotfix.

Whatever you do, don't fiddle around with flipping around crossfire bridges... I am sure that is not the real crossfire issue (check to see if ASUS has a bios out for you first).

 

[Antman56]

Congrats on escaping the "Shaft". What did you study?

I graduated in December with a Bachelor's Degree in Computer Engineering. It definitely allows me to appreciate the substance in Anand's articles.

Could OC'ing your RAMs may be holding back your cpu clock? Can you lock your memory at 1066MHz? Is this a 790gx at x8/x4/x8 or a 790FX at x16/x8/x8? SB750?

My 790GX uses a x8/x8 configuration when two cards are installed. There is no need to lock my ram... I can get it up past 1150 Mhz (high FSB) on recommended voltage with my processor set on a low multiplier (which I have to decrease my CPU-NB multiplier to prevent passing 2300Mhz also). Definitely nice memory modules...

Oh and nice setup. If I had more cash, I'd love to step up to high-end sometime. It' hard to justify the cost for myself though. What made you decide on doing 3x 4850 instead of just dong 2x 4850x2?

I decided to go with a Radeon Trifire setup because I only had one more slot for video card expansion. Plus, it seems "different". There aren't many people messing around with a 4850X2 and a 4850 in crossfire... and I don't want to upgrade my video setup for a while.

EDIT: In the statement asking about why I am not using 2x 4850x2's, I misunderstood the question. I did not go quadfire because I already had a 1GB 4850 and only had one high speed PCI-E slot available for another graphics card. Also, I live in a world where money isn't infinite.

 

[Antman56]

Originally posted by: Denithor
Welcome to the forums!

Sounds like a pretty nice rig. How well does it handle real-life gaming? You should run some game benchmarks to see several things.

1) CPU stock vs overclocked
2) IMC stock vs overclocked <-- really interested in this
3) 1 vs 2 vs 3 GPUs
4) Effect of overclocking the GPU(s)

I will work on it. I'm still recovering from school... so things don't happen as fast as they "normally" should.

From what I can tell, all of my games run well. However, the 4850X2 (when I could only get it to work by itself) was pushing such high frame rates... my lowly human eye can't perceive a difference (gotta love the video card rendering faster than the Nyguist Rate)

 

[thilanliyan]

Got any pics of the actual comp? I'd like to see what it looks like.

 

[Antman56]

Originally posted by: thilan29
Got any pics of the actual comp? I'd like to see what it looks like.

Yeah man, I will get those up. I took them when I put it together.

 

[ZimZum]

Off topic but where can I get those sidebar apps?

 

[nRollo]

Grats dude- sounds like a great rig!

 

[Denithor]

Oh...you're using a 4850x2 and a single 4850 also?

Weird to say the least...

4850x2 $300
4850 $125 (assuming good rebate)
Total $425

You could have gotten a 4870x2 for the same price or lower...with better performance...

 

[Antman56]

Originally posted by: Denithor
Oh...you're using a 4850x2 and a single 4850 also?

Weird to say the least...

4850x2 $300
4850 $125 (assuming good rebate)
Total $425

You could have gotten a 4870x2 for the same price or lower...with better performance...

Good point. Keep in mind that I have had this 4850 for a while... thus making the 4850X2 a cheaper option. As far as being slower than the 4870X2, I am not sure. I am pretty sure we can make more assumptions when I finish benchmarking... but I do beat it with my 4850X3 setup in 3DMarks Vantage (GPU Score).

Just food for thought...

 

[Antman56]

Alright guys, I ended up staying awake all night to finish off these benchmarks to give you a taste of a 4850X2 and a 4850 in TriFire.

The benchmarks are taken from the following 4 games: Devil May Cry 4, Half-Life 2, Race Driver: GRID, and Far Cry 2. As much I would like to do this for a living, I did not have all the time in the world to get these benchmarks ran at various resolutions? thus I stuck with 1920 x 1080 with no less than 8xAA. However, they all reflect in-game play experience. Don?t focus too much on tests with close frame rates, there is naturally testing error involved with benchmarking (about + 2% to -2%)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Devil May Cry 4 is running in DirectX 10 mode with all settings maxed out. I used the built-in benchmarking test for my results. The benchmark consists of four different scenes. Scenes 3 and 4 are less graphically intense, while Scenes 1 and 2 are more busy.

Scene One Average FPS:

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...%20Stuff/Scene1AVG.jpg

This scene is a good match for a 4850X3. Regardless of Phenom II?s processing power, the video cards are almost scaling perfectly. One sees around 2.7 times of the performance of a single 4850 when running Tri-Fire. The 3.53 GHz Phenom II with the overclocked L3/IMC does a little better than ?multiplier-only? 3.5 GHz Phenom II.

Scene Two Average FPS

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...%20Stuff/Scene2AVG.jpg

Here we see a little of the same as Scene One, though it should be noticed that there was a little fall off on the 3x Overclocked 4850 setup until you reach the more-tweaked 3.53 GHz Phenom II.

Scene Three Average FPS:

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...%20Stuff/Scene3AVG.jpg

Scene Three demonstrates what happens when you have video cards that are not being completely utilized. This scene is less visually stressful, thus the video cards pass the bottleneck onto the processor. As the processor becomes more powerful, the frame rate starts to increase. A straight overclock from 3.0 to 3.5 produces about a 4.62% gain, while going from 3.0 to an IMC-modified 3.53 gives an 11.86% gain. Pretty impressive!

Scene Four Average FPS:

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...%20Stuff/Scene4AVG.jpg

Scene Four is not quite as simple as Scene Three, though it shows the same tendencies. The 4850X3 setup does well increase with additional processor power, but far less than before. This test is fairly balanced in its CPU/GPU combination. The Tuned 3.53 Phenom II with the overclocked TriFire does succeed in breaking the curse of having a lower frame rate than when paired with a non-overclocked TriFire.

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Far Cry 2 is running in DirectX 10 mode with all settings maxed out. I used the built-in benchmarking tool for my results. The benchmark loops through the ?Small Ranch? sequence 3 times and the final average of the minimum, the average and the maximum is taken.

Far Cry 2 Minimum FPS:

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...mputer%20Stuff/MIN.jpg

At 1920x1080 with 8XAA and 16xAF, anyone playing with a single 4850 silently wishes to jump off a bridge. The processor clock cannot come to the rescue, not even an i7. But if you tag in a fellow 4850, you get some near perfect scaling and some decent minimum frame rates. When running the Phenom II @ 3.0 with two 4850s overclocked, you see an incredible 2.05 times the performance of a single overclocked 4850. As we move into TriFire, crossfire scaling almost seizes to exist. My video cards get starved and the Phenom II starts to show its weakness, but it can be helped. In these conditions, my Phenom II is the weakest link and overclocking shows that this processor still has a little fight left in it. The 3.53 GHz IMC-modded processor steps in and brings the minimum frame rate up by 153% (36.47 vs. 23.76) when running the 4850X3 configuration at their factory clock speeds. Anything over 30 frames per second is a respectable worst frame rate in a game like this or Crysis.


Far Cry 2 Maximum FPS:

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...mputer%20Stuff/MAX.jpg

Here we see the least meaningful frame rate, the maximum frame rate. It?s usually a burst and it?s usually not useful when gauging a in-game play experience. To further support the aforementioned need for CPU power, you can see the benefits of running a higher clock speed than the stock 3.0 GHz.

Far Cry 2 Average FPS:

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...mputer%20Stuff/AVG.jpg

The frame rate resulting from overclocking the GPUs, in 2-Way and 3-Way Crossfire, show a healthy gain at any CPU speed. The test has many segments loaded with visual complexity, which can be better handled by overclocking the video cards. The Phenom II running stock doesn?t have the extra CPU cycles left over to efficiently feed a third card. So you can move up to different levels of processing power and see a noticeable increase in TriFire as well. Overall, overclocking the 4850X3 setup and the processor led to about 1.5 times the performance had previously. A stronger processor, such as a higher clocked Intel Core2 or an i7, would surely create better crossfire scaling, though 246% performance of a single card isn?t too shabby.

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Half-Life 2 is running in DirectX 9 mode with all settings maxed out. It is running the Lost Coast add-on (free download on STEAM). I used the built-in Video Stress Test for my results. Unlike the other tests, I proceeded to use 24xCSAA. Otherwise, none of the in-game AA settings would bottleneck a single 4850. This way, I can atleast show ?some? scaling. Obviously, I don?t have the processor power to even touch two 4850?s potential in this game.

Half-Life 2 Lost Coast FPS:

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...uter%20Stuff/AVG-1.jpg

You can see that processor means everything in these tests. The transition from 4850X2 to 4850X3 does practically nothing to the frame rate, because 4850X2 was already sitting on its hands waiting for the CPU to give it something to do. Overclocking the processor better utilizes these video cards, but the second and third cards are greatly under-utilized and could benefit from more processor power (even though we humans can?t tell anything over 60, making more FPS unnecessary). It is noteworthy regarding the boost in performance seen from modifying the IMC on the Phenom 2. When the video cards are not overclocked, the IMC-mod brings an additional 10.06% performance gain over the ?multiplier only? method of overclock the Phenom. As a simple observation, one could argue that the IMC overclock has led to performance boost similar to overclocking an additional 200-300 MHz.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Race Driver: GRID is running in DirectX 9 mode with all settings maxed out. I used FRAPS to record the frame rates from my tests. The benchmark is basically me starting the very first race of the game, waiting for ten seconds after the starting light goes green and then totaling the car into the wall on the first right turn (right around the 20 second mark). The average of the minimum, the average and the maximum are recorded by FRAPS.

GRID Minimum FPS:

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...uter%20Stuff/MIN-1.jpg

The more important frame rate, for those looking for a flawless experience, is a smooth sailing on any 4800 series graphics card. It?s very shader 3.0 heavy, thus making ATI cards have a field day with it. At 1920 x 1080 with 8xAA 16xAF with the Phenom II and a single 4850 running stock, you end up with a minimum of 49 FPS. Pretty ridiculous. There is a decent amount of scaling on the way to 2-Way Crossfire, though it runs out of processor power to really push a second 4850 to its full potential. The Phenom II brings you past the ?flawless? barrier at stock clock speed once you run a 2-way or 3-way crossfire, but that?s about it. Get an i7 if you need a minimum frame rate of 100+ FPS (For those Nvidia 3D Glasses-wearing individuals).

GRID Maximum FPS:

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...uter%20Stuff/MAX-1.jpg

Not quite as important of a test, though it shows us what good scaling looks like (something a stronger processor would make clearer throughout these GRID benchmarks).


GRID Average FPS:

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...uter%20Stuff/AVG-2.jpg

You see, more or less, a similar scenario to the ?Minimum FPS? results. However, the TriFire setup does make a more noticeable appearance, though it is clear that more CPU power enable higher FPS. Overclocking these 4850s results in NO additional performance, so don?t bother if this game is the reason you did it. The IMC-modded Phenom II makes it clear that there is extra performance to be had at the same clock speed as its 3.5 GHz counterpart (making the Phenom II more competitive with the Core2 architecture on a clock to clock basis).

Edit: Fixed a few typos

 

[Elfear]

^ Excellent post. Thanks for putting all that hard work into the benchmarks. I've been trying to decide whether to jump on a PII rig now or wait until I7 prices come down. Based off of this review, I am leaning towards the I7 but your benchmarks definitely give me pause, especially for the price.

 

[Antman56]

Originally posted by: thilan29
Got any pics of the actual comp? I'd like to see what it looks like.

The 4850X2 in next to my ASUS 4850 1 GB Card:

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...%20Diablo/100_1157.jpg

The Computer Case with video cards installed... it's a little messy. I have 6 HDD (well one is out for RMA right now).

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...%20Diablo/100_1162.jpg

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...%20Diablo/100_1165.jpg

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Antman56

Originally posted by: thilan29
Got any pics of the actual comp? I'd like to see what it looks like.

The 4850X2 in next to my ASUS 4850 1 GB Card:

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...%20Diablo/100_1157.jpg

The Computer Case with video cards installed... it's a little messy. I have 6 HDD (well one is out for RMA right now).

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...%20Diablo/100_1162.jpg

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...%20Diablo/100_1165.jpg

You wouldn't happen to have a Kill-O-Watt meter to test power draw would you? I'd be interested to see what that puppy pulls.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Antman56

Originally posted by: thilan29
Got any pics of the actual comp? I'd like to see what it looks like.

The 4850X2 in next to my ASUS 4850 1 GB Card:

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...%20Diablo/100_1157.jpg

The Computer Case with video cards installed... it's a little messy. I have 6 HDD (well one is out for RMA right now).

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...%20Diablo/100_1162.jpg

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...%20Diablo/100_1165.jpg

Thanks for the pics...and love the cable management.

 

[ROJAS]

Notice you have a 750w power supply. With all the hard drives and two video cards I would think you need a larger power supply. But I guess not.

A very nice pc. You did a great job in part selection.

 

[Antman56]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Antman56

Originally posted by: thilan29
Got any pics of the actual comp? I'd like to see what it looks like.

The 4850X2 in next to my ASUS 4850 1 GB Card:

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...%20Diablo/100_1157.jpg

The Computer Case with video cards installed... it's a little messy. I have 6 HDD (well one is out for RMA right now).

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...%20Diablo/100_1162.jpg

http://i400.photobucket.com/al...%20Diablo/100_1165.jpg

Thanks for the pics...and love the cable management.

Honestly... I am a freak about clean computer cases. Unfortunately, I moving from a 5 drive setup to a 6 drive setup caused a lot of wires to lose their homes (The once empty HDD bay). Surprising, when I go to close my case , all messy wires tuck behind the backside of the HDDs really well. Airflow is definitely not a problem. Having a 250mm intake fan cooling all the hard drives along with my 360mm side fan keeps things rather brisk

 

[Dadofamunky]

Originally posted by: Elfear
^ Excellent post. Thanks for putting all that hard work into the benchmarks. I've been trying to decide whether to jump on a PII rig now or wait until I7 prices come down. Based off of this review, I am leaning towards the I7 but your benchmarks definitely give me pause, especially for the price.

Dang, what's wrong with what you've got now?!?!?!?

Nice to see someone making that 4850x2 go throug its paces. The drivers have been sketchy till now.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky

Originally posted by: Elfear
^ Excellent post. Thanks for putting all that hard work into the benchmarks. I've been trying to decide whether to jump on a PII rig now or wait until I7 prices come down. Based off of this review, I am leaning towards the I7 but your benchmarks definitely give me pause, especially for the price.

Dang, what's wrong with what you've got now?!?!?!?

Lol. The E8500 actually ticks along really well but it's always fun to mess with something new and it seems like quads are finally starting to make a difference in games now.

 

[Antman56]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky

Originally posted by: Elfear
^ Excellent post. Thanks for putting all that hard work into the benchmarks. I've been trying to decide whether to jump on a PII rig now or wait until I7 prices come down. Based off of this review, I am leaning towards the I7 but your benchmarks definitely give me pause, especially for the price.

Dang, what's wrong with what you've got now?!?!?!?

Lol. The E8500 actually ticks along really well but it's always fun to mess with something new and it seems like quads are finally starting to make a difference in games now.

That's interesting. If I had your setup, I would get a cheap "drop in" quad Q-something Intel and overclock it the solid high 3 GHz or even a low 4 GHz range. The difference you read about, in that review link you posted, is the difference of frame rates undetectable by the human eye. I would be surprised if an i7 would increase my frame rate in Far Cry 2 with 8xAA enabled. If anything... I don't have two+ GPUs running in Crossfire to do 1920x1080 with anything less than 4xAA. A non-AA benchmark would not apply to me. Surely those frame rates would be a good bit lower with 4x or 8x AA enabled (Though we are talking about a Tri-SLI 280s). Either way, I could not justify skipping a simple sub-200 dollar upgrade for a 600+ dollar one... just to have a higher frame rate that I couldn't even "see" (anything > 60 FPS) when AA is disabled.

Just a suggestion, not an attack. If money is not an object, then definitely get an i7.

Also, I can tell that considering a Phenom II wouldn't be optimal either. You are already setting on a setup with higher performance potential (with a CPU upgrade + overclocking) than any Phenom II has to offer. I have a Phenom II because I already had a AM2+ motherboard, so my upgrade is similar to one I think you should make.

Edit: I needed to fix some typos

 

[Antman56]

Originally posted by: ROJAS
Notice you have a 750w power supply. With all the hard drives and two video cards I would think you need a larger power supply. But I guess not.

A very nice pc. You did a great job in part selection.

I am guessing that I am using somewhere in the high 400's to low 500 watt department. Nothing serious. Definitely nothing touching 60 Amps of 12V current...

Check out this review, this power supply may surprise you.

One Badd Ass Corsiar 750TX Review

EDIT: Fixed some typos