my (Republican) view on Obama's speech

[rudeguy]

I caught most of the speech last night and for the first time I actually have "hope" in Obama. It would be great if he can turn the insurance system around. I liked how he made sure to incorporate McCain and Bush's ideas into his plan. I really liked the fact that he had a real, actual plan to get this done.

I have had insurance for the vast majority of my life. There were a few times when I was out of work and didn't have insurance or money to go to the docs or get my meds. That is a truly scary feeling that I wouldn't wish on anyone. I do like that insurance companies would be the ones accountable. Those guys are going to burn in lower level of hell than murderers IMHO.

I was very upset that the Republican response came from someone who sounded like a blithering idiot. We couldn't find someone with an actual IQ or something intelligent to say?

Once again....I really hope Obama can do the things he says. He dangled a carrot that hit home with millions of Americans. This just might be the issue that makes or breaks his presidency.

 

[SammyJr]

The Republicans have long since chased anyone remotely intellectual out of the party. To them, Palin is the intellectual giant.

 

[halik]

I consider myself Libertarian and tend to vote republican (ex wall st. analyst, well educated ... not sure where i should fall statistically).

I think his speech started well and the first 2/3 was exactly what he needed to sell the American people. The implementation part is lacking though and I'm still not totally sure about the mechanics of it. (if i don't have health insurance, I get the "fine" withheld and then get it back via tax credits? )

As for the republican response, talk about rhetoric. If Obama didn't provide any details, the republican response was just an outline of the republican view on health care in general.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: SammyJr
The Republicans have long since chased anyone remotely intellectual out of the party. To them, Palin is the intellectual giant.

So....are you saying that you're a member of the Republican Party?

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: SammyJr
The Republicans have long since chased anyone remotely intellectual out of the party. To them, Palin is the intellectual giant.

So....are you saying that you're a member of the Republican Party?

DEATH PANELS!!! Communists! Jebus!! Ahhh!

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: SammyJr
The Republicans have long since chased anyone remotely intellectual out of the party. To them, Palin is the intellectual giant.

So....are you saying that you're a member of the Republican Party?

DEATH PANELS!!! Communists! Jebus!! Ahhh!

IF WE DON'T REFORM WE WILL ALL DIEZ

 

[JeepinEd]

Originally posted by: SammyJr
The Republicans have long since chased anyone remotely intellectual out of the party. To them, Palin is the intellectual giant.

Sadly, I think you're right.
The Dem's have gone too far to the left and the Rep's too far to the right.
I'm hoping the pendulum swings back to the middle for at least one of the parties.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: JeepinEd

Originally posted by: SammyJr
The Republicans have long since chased anyone remotely intellectual out of the party. To them, Palin is the intellectual giant.

Sadly, I think you're right.
The Dem's have gone too far to the left and the Rep's too far to the right.
I'm hoping the pendulum swings back to the middle for at least one of the parties.

The Democrats aren't left. There are a handful of Democrats who qualify as "left", like Kucinich. Most of others are corporate. Want proof? Single payer wasn't ever on the table. The progressive/left wing voters in this country have been clamoring for single payer for years. If we had a real left wing party in this country, the Democrats wouldn't get half the votes they do now.

The Republicans have swung into some sort of lunatic fringe. It is possible to make a rational argument for smaller Government and lower taxes, but they have chosen the screaming like a mental patient route.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: JeepinEd

Originally posted by: SammyJr
The Republicans have long since chased anyone remotely intellectual out of the party. To them, Palin is the intellectual giant.

Sadly, I think you're right.
The Dem's have gone too far to the left and the Rep's too far to the right.
I'm hoping the pendulum swings back to the middle for at least one of the parties.

The Democrats aren't left. There are a handful of Democrats who qualify as "left", like Kucinich. Most of others are corporate. Want proof? Single payer wasn't ever on the table. The progressive/left wing voters in this country have been clamoring for single payer for years. If we had a real left wing party in this country, the Democrats wouldn't get half the votes they do now.

The Republicans have swung into some sort of lunatic fringe. It is possible to make a rational argument for smaller Government and lower taxes, but they have chosen the screaming like a mental patient route.

One of the first stages is denial. You are right though, today the democrat party is not as far out there as they were 4 years ago. One thing Dean did was work on getting moderates back into the party after your lunatic fringe drove them out. Sound familiar?

The pendelum will swing back some day. It always does.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: SammyJr
The Republicans have long since chased anyone remotely intellectual out of the party. To them, Palin is the intellectual giant.

So....are you saying that you're a member of the Republican Party?

DEATH PANELS!!! Communists! Jebus!! Ahhh!

CRISIS! CATASTROPHE! Talking points!

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: JeepinEd

Originally posted by: SammyJr
The Republicans have long since chased anyone remotely intellectual out of the party. To them, Palin is the intellectual giant.

Sadly, I think you're right.
The Dem's have gone too far to the left and the Rep's too far to the right.
I'm hoping the pendulum swings back to the middle for at least one of the parties.

It won't, it's not what the American people actually want. Americans are sorting themselves into increasingly polarized states and congressional districts, which in turn elect increasingly extreme politicians.

The two parties' extremes are a symptom, not a cause.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: JeepinEd

Originally posted by: SammyJr
The Republicans have long since chased anyone remotely intellectual out of the party. To them, Palin is the intellectual giant.

Sadly, I think you're right.
The Dem's have gone too far to the left and the Rep's too far to the right.
I'm hoping the pendulum swings back to the middle for at least one of the parties.

The Democrats aren't left. There are a handful of Democrats who qualify as "left", like Kucinich. Most of others are corporate. Want proof? Single payer wasn't ever on the table. The progressive/left wing voters in this country have been clamoring for single payer for years. If we had a real left wing party in this country, the Democrats wouldn't get half the votes they do now.

The Republicans have swung into some sort of lunatic fringe. It is possible to make a rational argument for smaller Government and lower taxes, but they have chosen the screaming like a mental patient route.

One of the first stages is denial. You are right though, today the democrat party is not as far out there as they were 4 years ago. One thing Dean did was work on getting moderates back into the party after your lunatic fringe drove them out. Sound familiar?

The pendelum will swing back some day. It always does.

On an American scale, the Democrats are 'left'. On a world scale they are 'center right'.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: NSFW
I was very upset that the Republican response came from someone who sounded like a blithering idiot. We couldn't find someone with an actual IQ or something intelligent to say?

:laugh: You're seriously wondering why they couldn't find a smart republican?

Ever heard the phrase 'needle in a haystack'? :laugh:

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: JeepinEd

Originally posted by: SammyJr
The Republicans have long since chased anyone remotely intellectual out of the party. To them, Palin is the intellectual giant.

Sadly, I think you're right.
The Dem's have gone too far to the left and the Rep's too far to the right.
I'm hoping the pendulum swings back to the middle for at least one of the parties.

The Democrats aren't left. There are a handful of Democrats who qualify as "left", like Kucinich. Most of others are corporate. Want proof? Single payer wasn't ever on the table. The progressive/left wing voters in this country have been clamoring for single payer for years. If we had a real left wing party in this country, the Democrats wouldn't get half the votes they do now.

The Republicans have swung into some sort of lunatic fringe. It is possible to make a rational argument for smaller Government and lower taxes, but they have chosen the screaming like a mental patient route.

One of the first stages is denial. You are right though, today the democrat party is not as far out there as they were 4 years ago. One thing Dean did was work on getting moderates back into the party after your lunatic fringe drove them out. Sound familiar?

The pendelum will swing back some day. It always does.

Don't gloat too much. Kerry, a very weak candidate with a horrendous campaign team, came with in a hair of beating Bush. If Kerry had been a little less of a chump, he would have mopped the floor with Bush.

What exactly has Obama and the Democrats done that you consider far left?

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: SammyJr
The Republicans have long since chased anyone remotely intellectual out of the party. To them, Palin is the intellectual giant.

So....are you saying that you're a member of the Republican Party?

DEATH PANELS!!! Communists! Jebus!! Ahhh!

CRISIS! CATASTROPHE! Talking points!

http://download.journals.elsev...IS0002934309004045.pdf

I guess "crisis" is the wrong choice of words if your life philosophy is "I gots mine so fuck you!"

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: JeepinEd

Originally posted by: SammyJr
The Republicans have long since chased anyone remotely intellectual out of the party. To them, Palin is the intellectual giant.

Sadly, I think you're right.
The Dem's have gone too far to the left and the Rep's too far to the right.
I'm hoping the pendulum swings back to the middle for at least one of the parties.

The middle is the right, in my opinion, a point of perfect stagnation. What we need, I think, is for the whole country to move to the left. We have lived the right wing agenda and it gets us nothing. We need to actually try life on the left. But it won't be easy because people are brainwashed and stupid. I also refer to a progressive left not communism and rubbish like that.

I think it isn't that difficult to understand what is good for the country as a whole. What is impossible is to do what is good for the country as a whole because it costs power players money. They buy public opinion, the very public opinion that works against the public. But like I said, people are stupid. Well, OK, they are not really so much stupid as mentally ill, and smart people use that mental illness against the people to the advantage of the few.

 

[GTKeeper]

Back to the OP....

As much as I believe in free markets and capitalism, SOME (not all) health issues that people encounter in their life they simply cannot do anything about. I can only imagine what it must be like for a family who loses health insurance because of loss of job, can't afford one otherwise in the open market (or doesn't qualify), and then something terrible happens. I honestly believe that the FAR right would say 'hey, tough shit, thats life' where as I personally believe that when it comes to real health issues like major surgery people should NOT be going bankrupt over that.

Do people ever think about the loss of productivity/spending when someone's entire nest egg is wiped out due to a caner or some kind of heart disease?

No one is able to give me a straight answer either when I bring up this scenario of a close friend:

Early 50s man, worked his ASS off all his life, has enough to retire, but unfortunately was diagnosed with prostate cancer. He was treated, cancer is gone, but he cannot retire... why? Because he is uninsurable in the open market, he could even AFFORD it, but simply cannot get insurance. Too young for Medicare, WTF is he supposed to do? Talk about getting your American dream crushed. Work your ass off, build up wealth, only to find out you can't use it because it might be 'wiped out' by the outrageous costs of our medicine. What do you tell this man in his situation? He essentially is losing his freedom to retire.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: NSFW
I was very upset that the Republican response came from someone who sounded like a blithering idiot. We couldn't find someone with an actual IQ or something intelligent to say?

He might have sounded like one, but he's a heart surgeon so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on his intelligence. Also, give him some slack, he's following a supremely skilled orator in front of congress, and this guy had to work out of a closet. Their "real" response is tonight anyway. By 'real' I mean they are going to talk about how dems want complete govt takeover of healtcare and to kill grandma again.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: JeepinEd

Originally posted by: SammyJr
The Republicans have long since chased anyone remotely intellectual out of the party. To them, Palin is the intellectual giant.

Sadly, I think you're right.
The Dem's have gone too far to the left and the Rep's too far to the right.
I'm hoping the pendulum swings back to the middle for at least one of the parties.

The Democrats aren't left. There are a handful of Democrats who qualify as "left", like Kucinich. Most of others are corporate. Want proof? Single payer wasn't ever on the table. The progressive/left wing voters in this country have been clamoring for single payer for years. If we had a real left wing party in this country, the Democrats wouldn't get half the votes they do now.

The Republicans have swung into some sort of lunatic fringe. It is possible to make a rational argument for smaller Government and lower taxes, but they have chosen the screaming like a mental patient route.

One of the first stages is denial. You are right though, today the democrat party is not as far out there as they were 4 years ago. One thing Dean did was work on getting moderates back into the party after your lunatic fringe drove them out. Sound familiar?

The pendelum will swing back some day. It always does.

On an American scale, the Democrats are 'left'. On a world scale they are 'center right'.

Sure they are. Both parties are also considered liberal parties by the classic definition. But when in America talking American politics we define them as left and right.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Don't gloat too much. Kerry, a very weak candidate with a horrendous campaign team, came with in a hair of beating Bush. If Kerry had been a little less of a chump, he would have mopped the floor with Bush.

What exactly has Obama and the Democrats done that you consider far left?

I am talking about congressional seats, which the Dems lost in 04 as well. Because they embraced lunatics like Moore, Soros and his Moveon.org, Code Pink, and Carter. People who are outside the mainstream in this country.

Dean's main push once he took over was to

A. Stop the lunatics from driving out the moderates
B. Move center left and support moderates who will win elections to expand the party

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: GTKeeper
I honestly believe that the FAR right would say 'hey, tough shit, thats life' where as I personally believe that when it comes to real health issues like major surgery people should NOT be going bankrupt over that.

I find it cute how you have to qualify it as 'FAR' right vs. just 'right', as if there's any meaningful distinction in this environment.

Do people ever think about the loss of productivity/spending when someone's entire nest egg is wiped out due to a caner or some kind of heart disease?

No one is able to give me a straight answer either when I bring up this scenario of a close friend:

Early 50s man, worked his ASS off all his life, has enough to retire, but unfortunately was diagnosed with prostate cancer. He was treated, cancer is gone, but he cannot retire... why? Because he is uninsurable in the open market, he could even AFFORD it, but simply cannot get insurance. Too young for Medicare, WTF is he supposed to do? Talk about getting your American dream crushed. Work your ass off, build up wealth, only to find out you can't use it because it might be 'wiped out' by the outrageous costs of our medicine. What do you tell this man in his situation? He essentially is losing his freedom to retire.

GOP Response: "He should have made better choices in life, he can go fuck himself, don't touch MY MONEY!!!!!!!!!oneoneone"

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: GTKeeper
I honestly believe that the FAR right would say 'hey, tough shit, thats life' where as I personally believe that when it comes to real health issues like major surgery people should NOT be going bankrupt over that.

I find it cute how you have to qualify it as 'FAR' right vs. just 'right', as if there's any meaningful distinction in this environment.

Do people ever think about the loss of productivity/spending when someone's entire nest egg is wiped out due to a caner or some kind of heart disease?

No one is able to give me a straight answer either when I bring up this scenario of a close friend:

Early 50s man, worked his ASS off all his life, has enough to retire, but unfortunately was diagnosed with prostate cancer. He was treated, cancer is gone, but he cannot retire... why? Because he is uninsurable in the open market, he could even AFFORD it, but simply cannot get insurance. Too young for Medicare, WTF is he supposed to do? Talk about getting your American dream crushed. Work your ass off, build up wealth, only to find out you can't use it because it might be 'wiped out' by the outrageous costs of our medicine. What do you tell this man in his situation? He essentially is losing his freedom to retire.

GOP Response: "He should have made better choices in life, he can go fuck himself, don't touch MY MONEY!!!!!!!!!oneoneone"

Pretty much.

The problem with this country is that it isn't on the "left" like some people claim.

Look at our retarded War on Drugs. People can't figure out that isn't working, I have no hope in them figuring out how much they keep fucking themselves on health care.

 

[tealk]

Health care that pays for slaughtering of children (abortions) will never be affective. Of course little o lied. That's all he does. He lies to your face, because no one reads the potential bill that he is imposing.
STOP DRINKING THE KOOL AID, AND OPEN YOUR EYES AND EARS!

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: tealk
Health care that pays for slaughtering of children (abortions) will never be affective. Of course little o lied. That's all he does. He lies to your face, because no one reads the potential bill that he is imposing.
STOP DRINKING THE KOOL AID, AND OPEN YOUR EYES AND EARS!

Apparently the bill already has been 'affective' as it has provoked your crazy and emotional response. If you mean 'effective', the presence or absence of abortion coverage will mean almost nothing as to the final effectiveness of the bill.

Did we really need another crazy around here?

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: tealk
Health care that pays for slaughtering of children (abortions) will never be affective. Of course little o lied. That's all he does. He lies to your face, because no one reads the potential bill that he is imposing.
STOP DRINKING THE KOOL AID, AND OPEN YOUR EYES AND EARS!

another racist.



and i was thirsty.