My take on the NFL labor dispute

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,215
11
81
I just wrote this up and posted it elsewhere, since we've got a few NFL fans here, I figured I'd post it here as well. Be forewarned, I was bored, so its wordy.

NFL owners - greedy?

I’m sure you’ve heard, but the NFL is currently in a dispute with the players’ union, and if it isn’t resolved, there could be a lockout for the 2011 season. Almost universally, media pundits are attacking the owners. They’re calling them greedy. They’re quick to cite statistics to make their case. But are they correct in their assessment?

First and foremost, let’s not act like these are unbiased journalists brimming with integrity. Even when not talking about the labor dispute, you probably don’t hear “integrity” and “sports media” in the same sentence very often, unless its accompanied by something like “lack of”. That aside, the members of the media have a huge stake in this debate. If there’s no NFL season in 2011, they stand to lose a lot of money – a lockout means bad things for ESPN, Sports Illustrated, and company. Keep that in mind when listening to what the media has to say here.

Moving on to the issue at hand. People are quick to attack the owners. Often, its stated how rich they are, and therefore, they shouldn’t want more money. That sentiment in itself doesn’t make any sense. The NFL is a business – a big one. Big businesses don’t exist out of charity. They exist to make money. Just because the owners are wealthy doesn’t mean they should stop trying to be profitable.

In an article on ESPN.com, Rick Reilly expounds about various owners’ wealth – he talks about Paul Allen’s yacht, or Jeffrey Lurie’s mansions. He insinuates by omission that these people got rich off the NFL. That’s simple not the case. Paul Allen was the co-founder of Microsoft, among other business ventures. Lurie was CEO/founder of a movie studio. Jerry Jones was an oil man, the Fords are involved in an auto company you may have heard of, Arthur Blank founded the Home Depot. The list goes on. While there are a few Rooneys and Bidwells that were born into the NFL, the majority of them made their riches in other endeavors, so talking about how wealthy they are has nothing to do with the state of the NFL. Not to mention, with all this character assassination going on, we forget how charitable these guys are. Paul Allen, for example, has donated excessive amounts to public projects in Seattle. I’m sure he’s not the only one.

Another oft-cited statistic is the NFL’s revenue. The pundits cry that the NFL is healthy, its making $9 billion/year. What they leave out is that that number is revenue – not profit. The costs of running an NFL team are very high. Let’s break it down in a little more detail. That number amounts to roughly $280 million per team. The salary cap is set at 60% of revenue - $1bil, meaning that each team’s cap is about $150 million. That leaves the owners with about $130 million. Now, factor in other costs. They have to pay to run the NFL itself (Roger Goodell makes about $10 mil/year himself). They have very high operating costs – think about what it costs to run the stadium. Electricity, water, maintenance, janitors, security, property taxes for a massive structure. Then there’s game-related expenses like equipment, charter jets for players to the games, coaching staffs, trainers and medical staffs. Payments to the union for retiree benefits. None of these things come cheap. While cities often chip in for a new stadium, so do the owners – Jerry Jones financed about $700-$800 million of the new Cowboys Stadium by himself.

So, what does all that come to? Well, we don’t know – its one of the union’s sticking points in the debate. We do know the financials for one team. The Green Bay Packers are publicly owned. They might not be in a huge market, but they are a storied, nationally-popular franchise that hasn’t built a new stadium in ages. Their profits are tumbling – down to $5 million net income in 2010, despite increased revenue. Think about that. The Packers have 5 players that made more money than the entire franchise did in 2010. They could barely give a low 1st round pick a signing bonus with that money. It amounts to a rough profit margin of 1.79% - compare that to Microsoft's 30.84%, Apple's 21.81%, or Target's 4.33% - and they're in retail, which has notoriously slim margins.

Of course this varies from team to team, but just like the players are bargaining collectively, so are the owners. I’m sure the Cowboys, Patriots, and Redskins all have a healthy bottom line, but what about the Bills and the Jaguars? Should their owners just sit back and accept losses? Of course not – these are business men. They are going to fight to make their business profitable. Its not greed, its common sense.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not siding completely with the owners in this debate. I don’t agree with a lot of Roger Goodell’s revenue-driven changes over the past few years, and I think the 18 games season is a terrible idea. My point here is that you should look a little deeper here. The media is spoon-feeding you biased garbage (shocker!), and trying to demonize the owners as greed-filled monsters that would make Gordon Gekko blush. This is simply not the case. Both sides have valid points to their argument, and since none of us know the full story, we shouldn’t be so quick to point fingers.
 
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AstroManLuca

Lifer
Jun 24, 2004
15,628
5
81
I read it and I don't think you've done anything to change anyone's mind. Certainly not mine. I don't know what point you're trying to make.

You also don't mention that fans have a major stake in the debate - fans don't want a lockout. And fans tend to like players because they are the familiar faces they watch every Sunday during football season. It's not really the sports media's fault that the general public has sided against the owners. Not to mention the backlash against the ultra-rich in hard economic times. Hell, if ESPN did anything BUT side with the players against billionaire owners, they'd lose viewers. They're just giving their audience what they want.

Anyway, what do the owners want to change? They want to extend the season to 18 games, and they also want to reduce player salaries. And they're willing to lock out the players (remember, this would be a lockout, not a strike) if they don't get their way. I don't see a whole lot of willingness to compromise there.

Now maybe I've glossed over some of the issues. Certainly the players aren't all perfect. But let's face facts - football is really hard on your body. Take the median NFL salary (about $700,000) over the average NFL career (3 years) and that's $2.1M before taxes. Not chump change but not much more than a typical worker makes over a career. Throw in long-term injuries that could make a former player unfit to work and difficult or expensive to insure after leaving football and that money won't go so far.
 
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Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,215
11
81
I read it and I don't think you've done anything to change anyone's mind. Certainly not mine. I don't know what point you're trying to make.

You also don't mention that fans have a major stake in the debate - fans don't want a lockout. And fans tend to like players because they are the familiar faces they watch every Sunday during football season. It's not really the sports media's fault that the general public has sided against the owners. Not to mention the backlash against the ultra-rich in hard economic times. Hell, if ESPN did anything BUT side with the players against billionaire owners, they'd lose viewers. They're just giving their audience what they want.

Anyway, what do the owners want to change? They want to extend the season to 18 games, and they also want to reduce player salaries. And they're willing to lock out the players (remember, this would be a lockout, not a strike) if they don't get their way. I don't see a whole lot of willingness to compromise there.

I said at the end that I do side with the players in some of the things they want. The point is basically that the media is twisting facts. Did you read Rick Reilly's article? It was absurd. Bill Simmons' was better, but not much.

You're free to side with the players - I'm just saying the owners have valid points of their own, and the NFL isn't the profit machine that the media is making it out to be.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,215
11
81
Now maybe I've glossed over some of the issues. Certainly the players aren't all perfect. But let's face facts - football is really hard on your body. Take the median NFL salary (about $700,000) over the average NFL career (3 years) and that's $2.1M before taxes. Not chump change but not much more than a typical worker makes over a career. Throw in long-term injuries that could make a former player unfit to work and difficult or expensive to insure after leaving football and that money won't go so far.

Well, while there are cases that an injury cuts a career short, generally those guys making low salaries and only playing a couple of seasons aren't getting that much playing time - and therefore aren't sustaining nearly as much damage on their bodies. Plus - while there are cases of severe injuries that prevent you from working again, the vast majority of NFL players are perfectly capable of getting a job after they retire - they just don't want to.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,561
4
0
Cut the players and owners salaries by 90% and make the game affordable for people again.

Yeah, right. Imagine an owner voluntarily giving up profits by charging less than he can.

Even if player salaries dropped 90 percent owners will still charge the amount that gives them the greatest profit.

Capitalism 101.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,573
5,096
136
Then answer this....if the NFL is in such horrible financial shape, why the refusal to simply open their books and show just that to the player's union? The owners want an additional $1B/year off the top in this negotiation, so if they need so much more money, show why.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,215
11
81
Then answer this....if the NFL is in such horrible financial shape, why the refusal to simply open their books and show just that to the player's union? The owners want an additional $1B/year off the top in this negotiation, so if they need so much more money, show why.

Yea, they probably should - but really, how many private companies reveal their financials? Its not like that's common practice.

Plus, if one team is making a lot, and one is losing a lot (say, Cowboys vs Bills), the union will just respond that the NFL needs to alter their revenue sharing agreement to compensate. That's not really fair either - why should the teams that have been successful at marketing and building their brand have to lose even more their profits to the teams that aren't?
 

hdeck

Lifer
Sep 26, 2002
14,530
1
0
At the end of the day the owners want an 18 game schedule while lowering the players' cut by $1B. Who would take that deal?
 

Anomaly1964

Platinum Member
Nov 21, 2010
2,460
4
81
I read it and I don't think you've done anything to change anyone's mind. Certainly not mine. I don't know what point you're trying to make.

You also don't mention that fans have a major stake in the debate - fans don't want a lockout. And fans tend to like players because they are the familiar faces they watch every Sunday during football season. It's not really the sports media's fault that the general public has sided against the owners. Not to mention the backlash against the ultra-rich in hard economic times. Hell, if ESPN did anything BUT side with the players against billionaire owners, they'd lose viewers. They're just giving their audience what they want.

Anyway, what do the owners want to change? They want to extend the season to 18 games, and they also want to reduce player salaries. And they're willing to lock out the players (remember, this would be a lockout, not a strike) if they don't get their way. I don't see a whole lot of willingness to compromise there.

Now maybe I've glossed over some of the issues. Certainly the players aren't all perfect. But let's face facts - football is really hard on your body. Take the median NFL salary (about $700,000) over the average NFL career (3 years) and that's $2.1M before taxes. Not chump change but not much more than a typical worker makes over a career. Throw in long-term injuries that could make a former player unfit to work and difficult or expensive to insure after leaving football and that money won't go so far.

Over what length of time?

I love watching pro football but have NO sympathy for players or owners...

1. They are playing a GAME...
2. It's the career they CHOSE...
3. I would play 20 games for $700,000 for one year as opposed to what I make selling pre-employment background screening services for a year!
 

sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,760
12
81
I don't care about either side. I just know that if they can't come to some sort of an agreement and have a 2011 season, I'm probably done as a customer. Both sides take the fan base for granted. That's what I'm least happy about.
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,563
5,966
136
Plus, if one team is making a lot, and one is losing a lot (say, Cowboys vs Bills), the union will just respond that the NFL needs to alter their revenue sharing agreement to compensate. That's not really fair either - why should the teams that have been successful at marketing and building their brand have to lose even more their profits to the teams that aren't?
Wealth redistribution is the political topic of the day.

No, it's not fair.
 

Chryso

Diamond Member
Nov 23, 2004
4,040
13
81
The owners are claiming their expenses are too high but they are unwilling to open the books and show the players the numbers. Until they are willing to do that, screw them.
 

AstroManLuca

Lifer
Jun 24, 2004
15,628
5
81
At the end of the day the owners want an 18 game schedule while lowering the players' cut by $1B. Who would take that deal?

Yeah, it just looks really bad for the owners and I'm not sure what they can do to get people on their side. I mean, the NFL is making more money now than ever, in a time of economic hardship where a lot of people are barely scraping by, yet the owners are now willing to lock out their players because it's still not enough. You have to admit that looks really, really bad for them.

And arguing that "they're in the business of making money" might be valid but it doesn't make them look any better. Just makes them look as greedy and spoiled as everyone claims.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,573
5,096
136
Yea, they probably should - but really, how many private companies reveal their financials? Its not like that's common practice.


Well, given that the NFL exists as a special entity, a la the antitrust exemption it was given by the gov't, the NFL is far from a typical private company.

And honestly, don't you think the NFL would be better served showing their books, in private, to the Players' Union vs. opening them up in court for all to see?


As for the revenue sharing angle, that's just something the NFL does to assist smaller market teams. If that's one of their crying points....and a point they seem to wave about when crying about profits....then dump that scheme and contract. Simple.


As for all those taxes the stadiums pay....that's just a dream the owners want you to have. Almost without exception, stadium construction is done with the caveat that the municipality the stadium sits in won't tax for X years. The owners use the "If you don't agree to that, we'll move" card over and over with city after city when getting the city/municipality to pony up money to help finance the various stadiums' construction.


The simple fact that the NFL owners refuse to open their books really promotes the suspicion that there is much more profit than the owners say there is.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,215
11
81
Yeah, it just looks really bad for the owners and I'm not sure what they can do to get people on their side. I mean, the NFL is making more money now than ever, in a time of economic hardship where a lot of people are barely scraping by, yet the owners are now willing to lock out their players because it's still not enough. You have to admit that looks really, really bad for them.

And arguing that "they're in the business of making money" might be valid but it doesn't make them look any better. Just makes them look as greedy and spoiled as everyone claims.

Well - they're making more revenue now than ever. That doesn't necessarily translate to profits. The Packers are our only example to go off of, but their profits have seriously plummetted the latter half of the decade.
 

TheNinja

Lifer
Jan 22, 2003
12,207
1
0
As others have posted, it is VERY hard for the player's union to GIVE the owners another $800 Million off the top (down from $1 Billion) if they don't know WHY they are giving this. The 18 games, rookie salary issues, are all small IMO and can be dealt with. The big issue is of course the owners wanting more of the pie but nobody knows how big the pie is.
 

bigdog1218

Golden Member
Mar 7, 2001
1,674
2
0
The owners saw a chance for a money grab and tried and in my opinion will fail. Other than the rookie salaries I don't see them getting a single one of their demands. It had nothing to do with increase costs or losing money, they got greedy and saw a chance to steal money that wasn't theirs.

If any of the NFL owners are losing as much money as they claim why are they all holding on to this teams? Why stick with a losing investment if the future looks so bleak?

The truth is the majority of NFL profits come from appreciation. 360% from 1998 to 2008. Just for comparison the Dow Jones was down 20% over that time and the S&P was down 30%. So while NFL owners made a 360% profit, the majority of companies in the US were losing value.

When including appreciation NFL owners made on average $49-130 million a year between 1998 and 2008. Which makes them some of the best investments over the past 15 years.

The only thing your write up does is show you're just as biased as the writers you call out.

I guess that 1.79% profit margin is just about useless now isn't it, considering its probably closer to 20% when you actually factor everything in.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,215
11
81
The owners saw a chance for a money grab and tried and in my opinion will fail. Other than the rookie salaries I don't see them getting a single one of their demands. It had nothing to do with increase costs or losing money, they got greedy and saw a chance to steal money that wasn't theirs.

If any of the NFL owners are losing as much money as they claim why are they all holding on to this teams? Why stick with a losing investment if the future looks so bleak?

The truth is the majority of NFL profits come from appreciation. 360% from 1998 to 2008. Just for comparison the Dow Jones was down 20% over that time and the S&P was down 30%. So while NFL owners made a 360% profit, the majority of companies in the US were losing value.

When including appreciation NFL owners made on average $49-130 million a year between 1998 and 2008. Which makes them some of the best investments over the past 15 years.

The only thing your write up does is show you're just as biased as the writers you call out.

I guess that 1.79% profit margin is just about useless now isn't it, considering its probably closer to 20% when you actually factor everything in.

That's not a profit unless its sold. Theoretical valuations != real evaluations. Until another person actually buys a team for that much money, its not really worth that much, therefore you can't really call it that big of a "profit". The fact that the franchise is worth more doesn't help the team pay higher salaries if the actual year over year profits aren't there.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
I'm not more than a casual NFL fan, and I don't really care if they lose a season or two, but I do remember some of my thoughts from when the NHL had their lockout.

The NHL opened their books to a CPA. He was a Blues fan who publicly challenged the league to prove that they were losing money, so the nhl and the Blues agreed to let him review St. Louis's financial documents. The fan went through with it and ended up stating that the league was telling the truth.

I had long decided that I didn't have a dog in the fight, no one was going to be paying me millions of dollars either way, so ignored the headlines during what should have been the 2004/2005 season and spend my Friday/Saturday nights playing hockey myself.

When the league came back in 2005, so did I. I wasn't bitter about it at all. Lucky for the NHL the timing was perfect: young stars like Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin, Evgeni Malkin, were a sensation and jump started interest in the league again. It really is amazing how much talent is in the league right now. I highly recommend football fans watch a few games if the NHL season is indeed cancelled next year.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,663
4,137
136
The owners are claiming their expenses are too high but they are unwilling to open the books and show the players the numbers. Until they are willing to do that, screw them.

This. Hard to argue numbers when you cant see them.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
This is entirely the Owner's fault. As pointed out before, they won't open up their books, but also this is a lockout (and not a strike), so it's the owners who initiated this confrontation. I cannot believe they have the audicity to cry especially when so many of them get public money to finance their stadiums.
 
Mar 10, 2005
14,647
2
0
Over what length of time?

I love watching pro football but have NO sympathy for players or owners...

1. They are playing a GAME...
2. It's the career they CHOSE...
3. I would play 20 games for $700,000 for one year as opposed to what I make selling pre-employment background screening services for a year!

hmmm $50k for 42 years. or $42k for 50 years, et cetera. not bad for some parts of the country, but it won't go far in the northeast.

1. it's a profession
2. everyone chooses what to do with their lives. if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
3. i'm sure you, me and most people would be willing to do a lot of things for $700k. is the end result worth $700k to watch? no.
 
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