Mythbusters punk'd whole internet

[sandorski]

The Treadmill has no effect on the Plane. Why? It's simple, the Planes forward movement is not derived from the Wheels as the Wheels rotate freely. So no matter how fast the Treadmill goes, the Wheels go Treadmill Speed + Forward Thrust Speed. The Plane moves Forward and achieves Flight.

 

[sandorski]

Ahh crap, quit reading a few posts before the ones stating what I just posted..

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: mobobuff

Originally posted by: Sphexi
There's an episode online now that has airplane in the title, can I assume it's a fake?

You can assume it's lame and doesn't talk about POAC.

Who cares?

We know it won't take off.

In the southern hemisphere, the treadmill takes off.

Only if you forget to nail it down properly.

Planes taking off here isn't the problem, it's keeping them on the ground that occupies our finest minds.

How do submarines work down there?

Things are perfectly normal below sea level.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: mobobuff

Originally posted by: Sphexi
There's an episode online now that has airplane in the title, can I assume it's a fake?

You can assume it's lame and doesn't talk about POAC.

Who cares?

We know it won't take off.

In the southern hemisphere, the treadmill takes off.

Only if you forget to nail it down properly.

Planes taking off here isn't the problem, it's keeping them on the ground that occupies our finest minds.

How do submarines work down there?

Things are perfectly normal below sea level.

Suuuure they are

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: smack Down
Sorry but you're not the first to come up with that argument. I posted it in the last thread about air plane on a treadmill and even found a video showing that the treadmill can affect the speed of a free spinning wheel. It was a wheel on a belt sander using a rubber band as an axle it jumped back when turned on. That is when randay had to abandon talking about the difference between a car and a plane and instead came up with this theory that the plane takes off backwards.

So are you thinking about the problem in the first interpretation or the second interpretation?

 

[Auric]

Originally posted by: gorcorps
*serious post*

Good lord I can't believe this is still being debated. It was a bit tough to think of at first but after hearing a good explanation of it from my physics prof it made perfect sense.

The plane will take off normally. Anybody who thinks otherwise is confusing how a plane takes off with how a car moves. A car moves by propelling itself with friction: the tire sticks to the ground and the wheels turn, and because the tires have friction with the ground the turning wheels make the car move. A plane moves by forcing air behind it, the wheels are just there for stability and takeoff/landing. If a treadmill was under the wheels of the plane moving backwards, then the air from the jets/propeller will move the plane at normal speed, the wheels will just be turning twice as fast (the speed of the plane+the speed of the treadmill which matches the plane). From looking at just the plane as a whole it will take off normally, but looking at the wheels they're spinning twice as fast as they normally would.

From a physics point of view it's nearly the same as asking if a plane can take off on smooth ice. A car can't move because of the lack of friction, but a plane wouldn't notice because it doesn't use friction to move.

A float-plane cannot take off against a river if it cannot overcome the flow of water. That's what the theoretical treadmill is like, n'est ce pas? The planes need to overcome the moving surface acting against them -they aren't suspended above already with the surface just sliding past. Rather, they are "physically" connected to it by gravity and that is only overcome with 'nuff ground speed to achieve lift. If the surface negates said speed they cannot overcome gravity. Ergo, they cannot take off.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: mobobuff

Originally posted by: Sphexi
There's an episode online now that has airplane in the title, can I assume it's a fake?

You can assume it's lame and doesn't talk about POAC.

Who cares?

We know it won't take off.

In the southern hemisphere, the treadmill takes off.

Only if you forget to nail it down properly.

Planes taking off here isn't the problem, it's keeping them on the ground that occupies our finest minds.

How do submarines work down there?

Things are perfectly normal below sea level.

Suuuure they are

*wiggles eyebrows suggestively*

Wanna join me on a cruise?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: mobobuff

Originally posted by: Sphexi
There's an episode online now that has airplane in the title, can I assume it's a fake?

You can assume it's lame and doesn't talk about POAC.

Who cares?

We know it won't take off.

In the southern hemisphere, the treadmill takes off.

Only if you forget to nail it down properly.

Planes taking off here isn't the problem, it's keeping them on the ground that occupies our finest minds.

How do submarines work down there?

Things are perfectly normal below sea level.

Suuuure they are

*wiggles eyebrows suggestively*

Wanna join me on a cruise?

Uh oh....

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: mobobuff

Originally posted by: Sphexi
There's an episode online now that has airplane in the title, can I assume it's a fake?

You can assume it's lame and doesn't talk about POAC.

Who cares?

We know it won't take off.

In the southern hemisphere, the treadmill takes off.

Only if you forget to nail it down properly.

Planes taking off here isn't the problem, it's keeping them on the ground that occupies our finest minds.

How do submarines work down there?

Things are perfectly normal below sea level.

Suuuure they are

*wiggles eyebrows suggestively*

Wanna join me on a cruise?

Uh oh....

Coincidentally, the cruise ship doubles as a bulk beef freighter

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: FoBoT
it still doesn't matter, as you pointed out, the wheels are free wheeling, so it doesn't matter if the treadmill speeds up to spin the dumb wheels faster, the thrust from the engine (assuming a jet engine, i wonder if the mythbusters got one of those cool toy jet planes) pushes on the air and the wheels free wheel and don't matter. the engine pushes on the air and the plane moves up the belt and takes off when it reaches take off speed

Is this in regard to what I said about if we assume the problem is using the wheel speed as the speed of the treadmill?

When the plane starts moving forward and you speed up the treadmill, you're going to also speed up the wheel, i.e. make it spin faster. The treadmill has no effect on plane (assuming no friction between the wheels and the plane).

 

[pontifex]

ok, why are people arguing whether it works or not...again? can't you just relink the previous 50000000 threads on this issue?

 

[zoiks]

Someone on the discovery forums posted Dan Tapster's (exec producer of Mythbusters) email regarding this.

Dear all,

As wbarnhill called out, I thought I should step in to what is rapidly becoming a hornet's nest. I will try to calm things down but I don't hold out much hope!

First up, for those concerned that this story has been cancelled, don't worry, planes on a conveyer belt has been filmed, is spectacular, and will be part of what us Mythbusters refer to as 'episode 97'. Currently that is due to air on January 30th.

Secondly, for those very aggrieved fans feeling "duped" into watching tonight's show, I can only apologise. I'm not sure why the listings / internet advertised that tonight's show contained POCB. I will endeavour to find out an answer but for those conspiracy theorists amongst you, I can assure you that it will have just been an honest mistake. At one point
several months ago, POCB was going to be part of Airplane Hour. Somewhere, someone has mistakenly posted the wrong listing. It will have been a genuine mistake but nonetheless it was a mistake which is unacceptable. As said I will try to find out what went wrong and hope that you will see fit to forgive the team at Discovery.

Thanks in advance,

Dan

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: smack Down
It doesn't matter that a car is driving by it wheels. The wheels on the car create a force on the body of the car. It is just like the plane. What additional forces is there that can keep a car on stop on a treadmill compared to the plane?

The wheels are not free-spinning like it is on a plane, i.e. if the car's wheels don't spin at the same speed as the treadmill it will move backwards or forwards depending on the relative speed. Get it?

 

[theprodigalrebel]

You guys are all sheep. The correct answer is: HA-HA! /Nelson

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: dug777

Coincidentally, the cruise ship doubles as a bulk beef freighter

Now I know I'm in trouble

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: FoBoT
it still doesn't matter, as you pointed out, the wheels are free wheeling, so it doesn't matter if the treadmill speeds up to spin the dumb wheels faster, the thrust from the engine (assuming a jet engine, i wonder if the mythbusters got one of those cool toy jet planes) pushes on the air and the wheels free wheel and don't matter. the engine pushes on the air and the plane moves up the belt and takes off when it reaches take off speed

Is this in regard to what I said about if we assume the problem is using the wheel speed as the speed of the treadmill?

When the plane starts moving forward and you speed up the treadmill, you're going to also speed up the wheel, i.e. make it spin faster. The treadmill has no effect on plane (assuming no friction between the wheels and the plane).

Well I totally agree with you if you're interpreting the problem in the first way (treadmill speed = speed of the plane relative to a stationary object), but in the second (treadmill speed = speed of the plane relative to the treadmill or the speed a speedometer would read attached to one of the plane's wheels), then the wheels by definition of the problem could never be moving faster than the treadmill is.

You're arguing with me on how the plane works with a different assumption on how the problem is set up. I believe I do understand what you're trying to explain to me (problem setup #1) and I'm asking FoBot which problem setup he's referring to when he's making his comment.

 

[MegaVovaN]

Only plane taking off + nude pics of their girl can save MB on Jan 30

 

[hdeck]

when i checked the episode summary on my dish last night before it aired, it said nothing about the treadmill nonsense.

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: gorcorps
*serious post*

Good lord I can't believe this is still being debated. It was a bit tough to think of at first but after hearing a good explanation of it from my physics prof it made perfect sense.

The plane will take off normally. Anybody who thinks otherwise is confusing how a plane takes off with how a car moves. A car moves by propelling itself with friction: the tire sticks to the ground and the wheels turn, and because the tires have friction with the ground the turning wheels make the car move. A plane moves by forcing air behind it, the wheels are just there for stability and takeoff/landing. If a treadmill was under the wheels of the plane moving backwards, then the air from the jets/propeller will move the plane at normal speed, the wheels will just be turning twice as fast (the speed of the plane+the speed of the treadmill which matches the plane). From looking at just the plane as a whole it will take off normally, but looking at the wheels they're spinning twice as fast as they normally would.

From a physics point of view it's nearly the same as asking if a plane can take off on smooth ice. A car can't move because of the lack of friction, but a plane wouldn't notice because it doesn't use friction to move.

Has your physics prof ever heard of the Bernoulli Principle?

 

[gorcorps]

Originally posted by: Auric

Originally posted by: gorcorps
*serious post*

Good lord I can't believe this is still being debated. It was a bit tough to think of at first but after hearing a good explanation of it from my physics prof it made perfect sense.

The plane will take off normally. Anybody who thinks otherwise is confusing how a plane takes off with how a car moves. A car moves by propelling itself with friction: the tire sticks to the ground and the wheels turn, and because the tires have friction with the ground the turning wheels make the car move. A plane moves by forcing air behind it, the wheels are just there for stability and takeoff/landing. If a treadmill was under the wheels of the plane moving backwards, then the air from the jets/propeller will move the plane at normal speed, the wheels will just be turning twice as fast (the speed of the plane+the speed of the treadmill which matches the plane). From looking at just the plane as a whole it will take off normally, but looking at the wheels they're spinning twice as fast as they normally would.

From a physics point of view it's nearly the same as asking if a plane can take off on smooth ice. A car can't move because of the lack of friction, but a plane wouldn't notice because it doesn't use friction to move.

A float-plane cannot take off against a river if it cannot overcome the flow of water. That's what the theoretical treadmill is like, n'est ce pas? The planes need to overcome the moving surface acting against them -they aren't suspended above already with the surface just sliding past. Rather, they are "physically" connected to it by gravity and that is only overcome with 'nuff ground speed to achieve lift. If the surface negates said speed they cannot overcome gravity. Ergo, they cannot take off.

A float plane is being impeded by the water stopping the plane from going in the direction it wants. A plane on wheels is not the same because the wheels keep all friction forces contained in themselves and don't effect the body of the plane like water does. I agree that a float plane can't take off against a strong enough current, BUT that's not the same as wheels on a treadmill. If the wheels were locked and you had to overcome that friction then yes it would be the same, but because the wheels are free it's not.

 

[manlymatt83]

Originally posted by: ITPaladin
huh?

The plane is going against the belt direction? I don't get what the test is.

Obvisously if there is no lift on the wings it will not fly if it is running opposite the way the belt is going.

here we go again

 

[James Bond]

Originally posted by: tasmanian

Originally posted by: ITPaladin
huh?

The plane is going against the belt direction? I don't get what the test is.

Obvisously if there is no lift on the wings it will not fly if it is running opposite the way the belt is going.

There is lift on the plane. The planes engines will be going but the plane wont move because the wheels are going the oppisite direction. It will take off.

Wow, you REALLY don't get it.

Most people have a better understanding, even the people who think it won't take off.

 

[gorcorps]

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: gorcorps
*serious post*

Good lord I can't believe this is still being debated. It was a bit tough to think of at first but after hearing a good explanation of it from my physics prof it made perfect sense.

The plane will take off normally. Anybody who thinks otherwise is confusing how a plane takes off with how a car moves. A car moves by propelling itself with friction: the tire sticks to the ground and the wheels turn, and because the tires have friction with the ground the turning wheels make the car move. A plane moves by forcing air behind it, the wheels are just there for stability and takeoff/landing. If a treadmill was under the wheels of the plane moving backwards, then the air from the jets/propeller will move the plane at normal speed, the wheels will just be turning twice as fast (the speed of the plane+the speed of the treadmill which matches the plane). From looking at just the plane as a whole it will take off normally, but looking at the wheels they're spinning twice as fast as they normally would.

From a physics point of view it's nearly the same as asking if a plane can take off on smooth ice. A car can't move because of the lack of friction, but a plane wouldn't notice because it doesn't use friction to move.

Has your physics prof ever heard of the Bernoulli Principle?

Yes, but I fail to see how that applies to this. Well I know how it applies and have seen that argument but still fail to see how a moving treadmill will 'negate' the forward motion and airflow. It seems if that argument were right then the plane would act like a car which of course it doesn't.

 

[illusion88]

Originally posted by: mjuszczak

Originally posted by: ITPaladin
huh?

The plane is going against the belt direction? I don't get what the test is.

Obvisously if there is no lift on the wings it will not fly if it is running opposite the way the belt is going.

here we go again

GOING DOWN THE ONLY ROAD WE'VE EVER KNOWN

 

[FoBoT]

what happens if it is a helicopter instead of an airplane