MythBusters

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Cold Steel
Who said anything about wheel speed?? I said maximum speed.

But now that you mention it, what would cause the plane's wheel speed to max out at 100mph? The only thing maxing out a plane's wheel speed would be the condition of the bearings, grease, tires, etc. The conveyor running at 100mph certainly hasn't maxed out the plane's wheel speed.

I don't know you are the one saying their is a max wheel speed. Or at least that is what I assumed you where talking about when you said the car would be stationary relative to the ground. Because of course all other speeds would be zero. Or where you changing your definition of speed to make the plane and car different.

In a car in drive without slipping wheel speed = ground speed

In an airplane Wheel speed != ground or airspeed

Hence why we ignore wheel speed for this problem.

Huh, in a plane on the ground, wheel speed = ground speed or airspeed unless the ground or air is moving. That goes for a car to.

Absolutely wrong

Treadmill in the mythbusters case was moving at 25MPH backward plane to take off needed to move 25MPH forward. Therefore the wheel speed was 50MPH and is NOT RELATED to ground speed OR airspeed.

 

[BlackTigers]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Cold Steel
Who said anything about wheel speed?? I said maximum speed.

But now that you mention it, what would cause the plane's wheel speed to max out at 100mph? The only thing maxing out a plane's wheel speed would be the condition of the bearings, grease, tires, etc. The conveyor running at 100mph certainly hasn't maxed out the plane's wheel speed.

I don't know you are the one saying their is a max wheel speed. Or at least that is what I assumed you where talking about when you said the car would be stationary relative to the ground. Because of course all other speeds would be zero. Or where you changing your definition of speed to make the plane and car different.

In a car in drive without slipping wheel speed = ground speed

In an airplane Wheel speed != ground or airspeed

Hence why we ignore wheel speed for this problem.

Huh, in a plane on the ground, wheel speed = ground speed or airspeed unless the ground or air is moving. That goes for a car to.

Absolutely wrong

Treadmill in the mythbusters case was moving at 25MPH backward plane to take off needed to move 25MPH forward. Therefore the wheel speed was 50MPH and is NOT RELATED to ground speed OR airspeed.

He did say ""unless the ground or air is moving.""... Assuming he meant the ground as the treadmill belt, then he was correct in that sense.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Cold Steel
Who said anything about wheel speed?? I said maximum speed.

But now that you mention it, what would cause the plane's wheel speed to max out at 100mph? The only thing maxing out a plane's wheel speed would be the condition of the bearings, grease, tires, etc. The conveyor running at 100mph certainly hasn't maxed out the plane's wheel speed.

I don't know you are the one saying their is a max wheel speed. Or at least that is what I assumed you where talking about when you said the car would be stationary relative to the ground. Because of course all other speeds would be zero. Or where you changing your definition of speed to make the plane and car different.

In a car in drive without slipping wheel speed = ground speed

In an airplane Wheel speed != ground or airspeed

Hence why we ignore wheel speed for this problem.

Huh, in a plane on the ground, wheel speed = ground speed or airspeed unless the ground or air is moving. That goes for a car to.

Absolutely wrong

Treadmill in the mythbusters case was moving at 25MPH backward plane to take off needed to move 25MPH forward. Therefore the wheel speed was 50MPH and is NOT RELATED to ground speed OR airspeed.

Right like I said unless the ground is moving. I didn't think you where talking about when the ground is moving because then your claim that rive without slipping wheel speed = ground speed would be false if the ground is moving.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: BlackTigers91

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Cold Steel
Who said anything about wheel speed?? I said maximum speed.

But now that you mention it, what would cause the plane's wheel speed to max out at 100mph? The only thing maxing out a plane's wheel speed would be the condition of the bearings, grease, tires, etc. The conveyor running at 100mph certainly hasn't maxed out the plane's wheel speed.

I don't know you are the one saying their is a max wheel speed. Or at least that is what I assumed you where talking about when you said the car would be stationary relative to the ground. Because of course all other speeds would be zero. Or where you changing your definition of speed to make the plane and car different.

In a car in drive without slipping wheel speed = ground speed

In an airplane Wheel speed != ground or airspeed

Hence why we ignore wheel speed for this problem.

Huh, in a plane on the ground, wheel speed = ground speed or airspeed unless the ground or air is moving. That goes for a car to.

Absolutely wrong

Treadmill in the mythbusters case was moving at 25MPH backward plane to take off needed to move 25MPH forward. Therefore the wheel speed was 50MPH and is NOT RELATED to ground speed OR airspeed.

He did say ""unless the ground or air is moving.""... Assuming he meant the ground as the treadmill belt, then he was correct in that sense.

Ground speed in my example is not relative to the treadmill it is relative to stationary ground. The treadmill is moving backward relative to stationary ground the plane is moving forward 25MPH relative to stationary ground. The wheels are at 50 MPH.

Now if he meant the treadmill needs to be moving to make them uncorrelated on the ground then I agree. However, the same could be said for when its in the air. The wheels could be going at any speed they want but they are completely uncorrelated to the speed of the body of the plane.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Cold Steel
Who said anything about wheel speed?? I said maximum speed.

But now that you mention it, what would cause the plane's wheel speed to max out at 100mph? The only thing maxing out a plane's wheel speed would be the condition of the bearings, grease, tires, etc. The conveyor running at 100mph certainly hasn't maxed out the plane's wheel speed.

I don't know you are the one saying their is a max wheel speed. Or at least that is what I assumed you where talking about when you said the car would be stationary relative to the ground. Because of course all other speeds would be zero. Or where you changing your definition of speed to make the plane and car different.

In a car in drive without slipping wheel speed = ground speed

In an airplane Wheel speed != ground or airspeed

Hence why we ignore wheel speed for this problem.

Huh, in a plane on the ground, wheel speed = ground speed or airspeed unless the ground or air is moving. That goes for a car to.

Absolutely wrong

Treadmill in the mythbusters case was moving at 25MPH backward plane to take off needed to move 25MPH forward. Therefore the wheel speed was 50MPH and is NOT RELATED to ground speed OR airspeed.

Right like I said unless the ground is moving. I didn't think you where talking about when the ground is moving because then your claim that rive without slipping wheel speed = ground speed would be false if the ground is moving.

I really wish you knew how to type in english.

In a car on the treadmill wheel speed = 25mph treadmill = 25mph backward. They are directly correlated.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Cold Steel
Who said anything about wheel speed?? I said maximum speed.

But now that you mention it, what would cause the plane's wheel speed to max out at 100mph? The only thing maxing out a plane's wheel speed would be the condition of the bearings, grease, tires, etc. The conveyor running at 100mph certainly hasn't maxed out the plane's wheel speed.

I don't know you are the one saying their is a max wheel speed. Or at least that is what I assumed you where talking about when you said the car would be stationary relative to the ground. Because of course all other speeds would be zero. Or where you changing your definition of speed to make the plane and car different.

In a car in drive without slipping wheel speed = ground speed

In an airplane Wheel speed != ground or airspeed

Hence why we ignore wheel speed for this problem.

Huh, in a plane on the ground, wheel speed = ground speed or airspeed unless the ground or air is moving. That goes for a car to.

Absolutely wrong

Treadmill in the mythbusters case was moving at 25MPH backward plane to take off needed to move 25MPH forward. Therefore the wheel speed was 50MPH and is NOT RELATED to ground speed OR airspeed.

Right like I said unless the ground is moving. I didn't think you where talking about when the ground is moving because then your claim that rive without slipping wheel speed = ground speed would be false if the ground is moving.

I really wish you knew how to type in english.

In a car on the treadmill wheel speed = 25mph treadmill = 25mph backward. They are directly correlated.

How they are only correlated if you make them. I can make the car go any speed I want the two are not connected at all. I can easily make the car go 50MPH relative to the treadmill that is going backwards at 25 MPH just like mythbusters did with the plane.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: smack Down
How they are only correlated if you make them. I can make the car go any speed I want the two are not connected at all. I can easily make the car go 50MPH relative to the treadmill that is going backwards at 25 MPH just like mythbusters did with the plane.

quoted for my own entertainment.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Smack Down can't still be arguing this. He just can't be.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
Smack Down can't still be arguing this. He just can't be.

It's like watching a car crash in really really slow motion.

 

[Cold Steel]

Originally posted by: smack Down
How they are only correlated if you make them. I can make the car go any speed I want the two are not connected at all. I can easily make the car go 50MPH relative to the treadmill that is going backwards at 25 MPH just like mythbusters did with the plane.

But what about a car that has a MAXIMUM possible speed of 100mph? If I move the conveyor backwards at 100mph, the car will be stationary relative to ground. Correct?

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
It's like watching a car crash in really really slow motion.

Seriously.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Cold Steel

Originally posted by: smack Down
How they are only correlated if you make them. I can make the car go any speed I want the two are not connected at all. I can easily make the car go 50MPH relative to the treadmill that is going backwards at 25 MPH just like mythbusters did with the plane.

But what about a car that has a MAXIMUM possible speed of 100mph? If I move the conveyor backwards at 100mph, the car will be stationary relative to ground. Correct?

Same with the plane. If the planes wheels can't turn faster then 100 mph and it is a treadmill going backwards at 100 mph, the plane will be stationary relative to ground. Correct? I don't really know what your point is? Is it that car have a lower top speed then planes?

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Cold Steel

Originally posted by: smack Down
How they are only correlated if you make them. I can make the car go any speed I want the two are not connected at all. I can easily make the car go 50MPH relative to the treadmill that is going backwards at 25 MPH just like mythbusters did with the plane.

But what about a car that has a MAXIMUM possible speed of 100mph? If I move the conveyor backwards at 100mph, the car will be stationary relative to ground. Correct?

Same with the plane. If the planes wheels can't turn faster then 100 mph and it is a treadmill going backwards at 100 mph, the plane will be stationary relative to ground. Correct? I don't really know what your point is? Is it that car have a lower top speed then planes?

No, INCORRECT. The wheels of a plane have nothing to do with the direction it moves in. The wheels spin freely and are simply there to reduce friction. The plane can move forward with the wheels moving backward, because the engines (which push on air) are independent of the wheels.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
Smack Down can't still be arguing this. He just can't be.

Sadly, ignorance is strong in him.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Cold Steel

Originally posted by: smack Down
How they are only correlated if you make them. I can make the car go any speed I want the two are not connected at all. I can easily make the car go 50MPH relative to the treadmill that is going backwards at 25 MPH just like mythbusters did with the plane.

But what about a car that has a MAXIMUM possible speed of 100mph? If I move the conveyor backwards at 100mph, the car will be stationary relative to ground. Correct?

Same with the plane. If the planes wheels can't turn faster then 100 mph and it is a treadmill going backwards at 100 mph, the plane will be stationary relative to ground. Correct? I don't really know what your point is? Is it that car have a lower top speed then planes?

No, INCORRECT. The wheels of a plane have nothing to do with the direction it moves in. The wheels spin freely and are simply there to reduce friction. The plane can move forward with the wheels moving backward, because the engines (which push on air) are independent of the wheels.

Sorry but we are talking about plane with their wheels attached the wheels can not go one direction while the plane goes another. The plane can't move forward without breaking Cold steel's requirement that the plane has a max wheel speed of 100 mph.

 

[Cold Steel]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Sorry but we are talking about plane with their wheels attached the wheels can not go one direction while the plane goes another. The plane can't move forward without breaking Cold steel's requirement that the plane has a max wheel speed of 100 mph.

Where did I say the planes max wheel speed was 100mph?? I asked you that already once. I didn't say the max wheel speed was 100mph, I said the max speed, as in air speed.

Originally posted by: smack Down

Same with the plane. If the planes wheels can't turn faster then 100 mph and it is a treadmill going backwards at 100 mph, the plane will be stationary relative to ground. Correct? I don't really know what your point is? Is it that car have a lower top speed then planes?

Again, where did I say the wheel speed?? That's the whole point. A plane's wheels can spin at a different speed than the body of the plane even if it's on the ground.

And, btw, how do you explain that the plane did, in fact, take off?

 

[DrPizza]

Smack Down - I'm encouraged that there are fewer people who still believe that the plane won't take off than there are who believe that .999... doesn't equal 1. Ironically, even dealing with special education students in my high school, I've been 100% successful in getting them to understand both problems. (I frequently use problems such as this because while they seem somewhat unrelated to the curriculum, they're entertaining and get students to actually think.)

Unfortunately, it appears that the vast majority of people on these forums have been incapable of doing the same with you - getting you to stop and think. Personally, I've given up. I guess I just have to accept the fact that there are people in the world who still believe the earth is flat (idiots). There are people who believe the moon landings were a hoax (idiots). There are people who think .999... is less than 1 (idiots). And, there are people who despite all the appropriate explanations, seem to think the plane can't take off. ( )

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Cold Steel

Originally posted by: smack Down

Sorry but we are talking about plane with their wheels attached the wheels can not go one direction while the plane goes another. The plane can't move forward without breaking Cold steel's requirement that the plane has a max wheel speed of 100 mph.

Where did I say the planes max wheel speed was 100mph?? I asked you that already once. I didn't say the max wheel speed was 100mph, I said the max speed.

But what about a car that has a MAXIMUM possible speed of 100mph? If I move the conveyor backwards at 100mph, the car will be stationary relative to ground. Correct?

When you said that you are clearly talking about the wheel speed of the car. If you are not then what speed are you talking about. I simply applied the same to the plane.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Smack Down - I'm encouraged that there are fewer people who still believe that the plane won't take off than there are who believe that .999... doesn't equal 1. Ironically, even dealing with special education students in my high school, I've been 100% successful in getting them to understand both problems. (I frequently use problems such as this because while they seem somewhat unrelated to the curriculum, they're entertaining and get students to actually think.)

Unfortunately, it appears that the vast majority of people on these forums have been incapable of doing the same with you - getting you to stop and think. Personally, I've given up. I guess I just have to accept the fact that there are people in the world who still believe the earth is flat (idiots). There are people who believe the moon landings were a hoax (idiots). There are people who think .999... is less than 1 (idiots). And, there are people who despite all the appropriate explanations, seem to think the plane can't take off. ( )

Should I be impressed that you can Bullshit retards. If the plan can take off depends entirely on how you read the problem. The only thing I'm trying to show in this thread is that the idea that under one reading the plane takes off because it is different from a car is completely wrong.

 

[Cold Steel]

Originally posted by: smack Down

When you said that you are clearly talking about the wheel speed of the car. If you are not then what speed are you talking about. I simply applied the same to the plane.

Sigh.....

Yes, I was talking about the car's wheel speed. That's how a car moves. By the tires "pushing" agains the ground. That's NOT how a plane moves.

OK. One last attempt.

A car, with a maximum ground speed of 100mph, is on a conveyor running backwards at 100mph. The car stands still, relative to the ground. Correct?

A plane, with a maximum air speed of 100mph, is on a conveyor running backwards at 100mph. The plane moves forward at 100mph, relative to the ground, and becomes airborn. Correct?

Please be sure to answer both questions.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: smack Down
Should I be impressed that you can Bullshit retards. If the plan can take off depends entirely on how you read the problem. The only thing I'm trying to show in this thread is that the idea that under one reading the plane takes off because it is different from a car is completely wrong.

Look, it's simple. We all know there are two interpretations. 1 interpretation, the plane flies - no problem. The other interpretation which you keep clinging to is logically inconsistent - it leads to a paradox. The treadmill cannot match the wheels speed - it's impossible for the plane except for a speed of ZERO. In order for the wheel to spin in the first place, the plane must move forward. If the plane doesn't move, the wheel never spins. Is it so hard to grasp that??

Furthermore, I believe it was you or nanostuff who said "the ideal situation" - no friction other than between the wheel and the ground. If that's the case, then with the plane sitting there and no pilot in the plane, you could crank the treadmill up to 200mph and the plane would never move - not backwards, not forwards. The wheels would simply spin. Again, if that's the case, then any force at all from the prop would cause the plane to accelerate down the runway.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: smack Down
The only thing I'm trying to show in this thread is that the idea that under one reading the plane takes off because it is different from a car is completely wrong.

Wrong again. Take a physics class please.

 

[golfercraig]

I've been reading this thread for a long time. I check it every few days. Thank you, smack Down, for being so unintentionally funny. I can always count on you for a laugh.

 

[hdeck]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Smack Down - I'm encouraged that there are fewer people who still believe that the plane won't take off than there are who believe that .999... doesn't equal 1. Ironically, even dealing with special education students in my high school, I've been 100% successful in getting them to understand both problems. (I frequently use problems such as this because while they seem somewhat unrelated to the curriculum, they're entertaining and get students to actually think.)

Unfortunately, it appears that the vast majority of people on these forums have been incapable of doing the same with you - getting you to stop and think. Personally, I've given up. I guess I just have to accept the fact that there are people in the world who still believe the earth is flat (idiots). There are people who believe the moon landings were a hoax (idiots). There are people who think .999... is less than 1 (idiots). And, there are people who despite all the appropriate explanations, seem to think the plane can't take off. ( )

Should I be impressed that you can Bullshit retards. If the plan can take off depends entirely on how you read the problem. The only thing I'm trying to show in this thread is that the idea that under one reading the plane takes off because it is different from a car is completely wrong.

if you read the problem the correct way, the plane takes off. if you grasp at straws and try to throw in your own interpretations, you fight logic. just stop.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Smack Down - I'm encouraged that there are fewer people who still believe that the plane won't take off than there are who believe that .999... doesn't equal 1. Ironically, even dealing with special education students in my high school, I've been 100% successful in getting them to understand both problems. (I frequently use problems such as this because while they seem somewhat unrelated to the curriculum, they're entertaining and get students to actually think.)

Unfortunately, it appears that the vast majority of people on these forums have been incapable of doing the same with you - getting you to stop and think. Personally, I've given up. I guess I just have to accept the fact that there are people in the world who still believe the earth is flat (idiots). There are people who believe the moon landings were a hoax (idiots). There are people who think .999... is less than 1 (idiots). And, there are people who despite all the appropriate explanations, seem to think the plane can't take off. ( )

Should I be impressed that you can Bullshit retards. If the plan can take off depends entirely on how you read the problem. The only thing I'm trying to show in this thread is that the idea that under one reading the plane takes off because it is different from a car is completely wrong.

The only thing you've managed to show is your lack of reading comprehension, your lack of ability to formulate coherent thoughts, and your lack of any understanding of physics.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Smack Down - I'm encouraged that there are fewer people who still believe that the plane won't take off than there are who believe that .999... doesn't equal 1. Ironically, even dealing with special education students in my high school, I've been 100% successful in getting them to understand both problems. (I frequently use problems such as this because while they seem somewhat unrelated to the curriculum, they're entertaining and get students to actually think.)

Unfortunately, it appears that the vast majority of people on these forums have been incapable of doing the same with you - getting you to stop and think. Personally, I've given up. I guess I just have to accept the fact that there are people in the world who still believe the earth is flat (idiots). There are people who believe the moon landings were a hoax (idiots). There are people who think .999... is less than 1 (idiots). And, there are people who despite all the appropriate explanations, seem to think the plane can't take off. ( )

Should I be impressed that you can Bullshit retards. If the plan can take off depends entirely on how you read the problem. The only thing I'm trying to show in this thread is that the idea that under one reading the plane takes off because it is different from a car is completely wrong.

The only thing you've managed to show is your lack of reading comprehension, your lack of ability to formulate coherent thoughts, and your lack of any understanding of physics.

You forgot something: and that the special education kids are smarter