N. Korean Missile Test

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DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Originally posted by: Nyati13

If NK does launch that test missile, I seriously doubt that it would be aimed towards the US. It would likely be angled SouthWest into the middle of the Pacific. That trajectory would take it so far away from the Anti-Missile system we have in Alaska and California, that we couldn't shoot it down even if the ABM system did work.

Which it doesn't so that's a moot point anyway.

Haven't you been watching Fox News?! Their animated graphics CLEARLY show a 3-stage NK missile blowing up San Francisco.
They wish!!
 

spelletrader

Senior member
May 4, 2004
583
0
0
You're correct, there probably isn't anything more then a telemetry package on this missile, if it is carrying any payload at all.

Liquid fuels give me the willies. Remember we still use MMH, UDMH, Nitrogen Oxide, Hydrazine and a myriad of other liquid fuels in some of our missiles.

I do not envision NK solving the solid propellant booster problems anytime soon, unless they receive some covert assistance from a country that has already done so.

And, in all honesty, this is NK's usuall chest thumping to get international attention. Let em bark. If they try to bite we'll be ready.

Scott
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: spelletrader

Liquid fuels give me the willies. Remember we still use MMH, UDMH, Nitrogen Oxide, Hydrazine and a myriad of other liquid fuels in some of our missiles.

Scott


We're still using Hydrazine, MMH (Monomethyl Hydrazine) and N2O4 (Nitrogen Tetroxide) as propellants on the vernier rockets (RCS)
and OMS Pods on the Space Shuttle
Only reliable ignition system to use in space are the hypergolic chemicals, ignite on contact.

A spill of a quart of Nitro-tet disolved the adhesives on the nose RCS and there were hundreds of tiles
that had to be re-installed after a very hazadrous cleanup.

As we used to say at Vandy-Land about MMH & N2O4 - you smell it and you're dead.
As simple as that.

And there are still moonscapes at Vandenberg even 40 years after a Hot Rum on the pad,
absolutely nothing lives in the footprint of those spills


POP! This was at the Kennedy Space Center, Florida.

For those who don't know, Hot Rum is where the rocket never lifts of the pad, expolring on the gantry Hot Rum
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Originally posted by: Nyati13

If NK does launch that test missile, I seriously doubt that it would be aimed towards the US. It would likely be angled SouthWest into the middle of the Pacific. That trajectory would take it so far away from the Anti-Missile system we have in Alaska and California, that we couldn't shoot it down even if the ABM system did work.

Which it doesn't so that's a moot point anyway.

Haven't you been watching Fox News?! Their animated graphics CLEARLY show a 3-stage NK missile blowing up San Francisco.

Did they also simulate the resulting earthquake afterwards?

 

spelletrader

Senior member
May 4, 2004
583
0
0
No wonder you use the Captain Kirk handle, you were part of USAF Star Trek Command! I've worked with a few EOD types from Patrick, and recently worked on an old ordnance clean-up at F.E. Warren. Never stationed at a Spacecom base though.

F-16s still use Hydrazine in the Emergency Power Units, also used in THAAD. Cruise missiles and torpedos still use some unfriendly liquid fuels as well. Have to deal with that crap about twice a month, our SCBA's get a lot of use as you can imagine. Seems like I am always reading a new MSDS on something that will kill me in any number of ways. Comes with the job, I love it!

As a matter of fact if that video you linked was from the mid 90's I know a guy that worked the immediate response and cleanup of that incident.

Scott
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,943
264
126
Two points I wanted to comment on.

1. You have to use liquids; solids just don't have the energy density.
2. The dispersal of radioactive material from within nuclear warheads is the same mess regardless if its destroyed up higher or down lower. Endoatmospheric interception is not ideal because the mass still has to go somewhere. Exoatmospheric interception may delay the descent of the mass, but it too has to go somewhere. The material doesn't magically shed mass when vapourized. A kinetic kill will turn the mass into plasma vapor which is more difficult to contain than an intact mass. I'd much rather have a dud splatter into the ground whereas minimal aerial dispersion takes place than have it plasmarized in the atmosphere where its another mini-Chernobyl. It doesn't take alot - and we are only talking some tens of pounds at most in the multi-megaton warheads - to create a serious problem.
 

B00ne

Platinum Member
May 21, 2001
2,168
1
0
Originally posted by: Nyati13
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
We attempt to do so will expose how inept our multi-million dollar Missle Defense System really is.

that would be multi-billion dollar ABM system.
In this case ABM is a fitting abbreviation - ABM in German in Arbeitsbeschaffungsmassnahme - work creation measure - a temporary state sponsored measure to get unemployment down (pretty up the numbers)
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: MadRat
Two points I wanted to comment on.

1. You have to use liquids; solids just don't have the energy density.

2. The dispersal of radioactive material from within nuclear warheads is the same mess regardless if its destroyed up higher or down lower. Endoatmospheric interception is not ideal because the mass still has to go somewhere. Exoatmospheric interception may delay the descent of the mass, but it too has to go somewhere. The material doesn't magically shed mass when vapourized. A kinetic kill will turn the mass into plasma vapor which is more difficult to contain than an intact mass. I'd much rather have a dud splatter into the ground whereas minimal aerial dispersion takes place than have it plasmarized in the atmosphere where its another mini-Chernobyl. It doesn't take alot - and we are only talking some tens of pounds at most in the multi-megaton warheads - to create a serious problem.

1) Liquids do not provide the thrust energy that solid fuels do, but solids can not be shut down or re started.
You light the torch & ride it until it burns out.
The Shuttle main engines do not have the power to lift the entire system off the pad. The solid boosters main job is to lift the external tank and carry it above the gravity well to a point where the
mains can sustain acceleration & position the vehicle for orbital insertion.

Early liquid fuel ICMS, Atlas & Titans have been replaced by much more capable solid fuel systems - MX & Minuteman series.
Retrofit modifications enabled the Atlas & Titans to be used for satellite launch operations,
as will be the ultime fate of the MX.

2) Either Plutonium or U-238 is the preferred material to make a warhead from

Plutonium is the most deadly thing known to man (Other than OJ Simpson) as a fleck the size of a speck of pepper
can kill all that come within some 100 feet or so of it by radioactive contamination.

Detonation in deep space becomes a spherical radiation event, only the area directly under the burst,
while all other energy is dispersed into space. that way less than 1% of the total radiation bath his the ground.
Fragmentation of a non-exploded Plutonim device means years of dangerous exposure to a clean-up crew.

Materials and isotobes that are re-manufactured during a thermonuclear explosion make radioactive residues,
depending on what is present at the site of the detonation, that linger in the area, or are aerial dispersed
for thousands of mile downwind in the fallout plume's footprint & path, depending on an ever changing wind pattern.
Some of these radioactive isotobes have half-lives that span thousands of years.

Nagasaki & Hiroshimo which were nuked in the 40's are still cities today, they were severly damaged
but not wiped of the map for all time.

Arial bursts, ground bursts, and sea bursts all yield simular isotobes, but each is specifically unique due to materials involved.

Our weaponry tends to be cleaner than that used by Russia and other nations, leaving a lower lingering residue.
We also employ the use of Nuetron Technology, which kills organic matter, people, animals, & plants,
but post-detonation isotobe decay is less lingering and quicker decaying allowing entry into the target area sooner.
Aerial bursts wipe out the populations, but leave buildings standing except those within the primary blast zone.
Wipe out an entire city's population and only loose the infastructue of a few hundred meters of footprint.

Pop!
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,121
37,391
136
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Originally posted by: MadRat
Two points I wanted to comment on.

1. You have to use liquids; solids just don't have the energy density.

2. The dispersal of radioactive material from within nuclear warheads is the same mess regardless if its destroyed up higher or down lower. Endoatmospheric interception is not ideal because the mass still has to go somewhere. Exoatmospheric interception may delay the descent of the mass, but it too has to go somewhere. The material doesn't magically shed mass when vapourized. A kinetic kill will turn the mass into plasma vapor which is more difficult to contain than an intact mass. I'd much rather have a dud splatter into the ground whereas minimal aerial dispersion takes place than have it plasmarized in the atmosphere where its another mini-Chernobyl. It doesn't take alot - and we are only talking some tens of pounds at most in the multi-megaton warheads - to create a serious problem.

1) Liquids do not provide the thrust energy that solid fuels do, but solids can not be shut down or re started.
You light the torch & ride it until it burns out.
The Shuttle main engines do not have the power to lift the entire system off the pad. The solid boosters main job is to lift the external tank and carry it above the gravity well to a point where the
mains can sustain acceleration & position the vehicle for orbital insertion.

Early liquid fuel ICMS, Atlas & Titans have been replaced by much more capable solid fuel systems - MX & Minuteman series.
Retrofit modifications enabled the Atlas & Titans to be used for satellite launch operations,
as will be the ultime fate of the MX.

2) Either Plutonium or U-238 is the preferred material to make a warhead from

Plutonium is the most deadly thing known to man (Other than OJ Simpson) as a fleck the size of a speck of pepper
can kill all that come within some 100 feet or so of it by radioactive contamination.

Detonation in deep space becomes a spherical radiation event, only the area directly under the burst,
while all other energy is dispersed into space. that way less than 1% of the total radiation bath his the ground.
Fragmentation of a non-exploded Plutonim device means years of dangerous exposure to a clean-up crew.

Materials and isotobes that are re-manufactured during a thermonuclear explosion make radioactive residues,
depending on what is present at the site of the detonation, that linger in the area, or are aerial dispersed
for thousands of mile downwind in the fallout plume's footprint & path, depending on an ever changing wind pattern.
Some of these radioactive isotobes have half-lives that span thousands of years.

Nagasaki & Hiroshimo which were nuked in the 40's are still cities today, they were severly damaged
but not wiped of the map for all time.

Arial bursts, ground bursts, and sea bursts all yield simular isotobes, but each is specifically unique due to materials involved.

Our weaponry tends to be cleaner than that used by Russia and other nations, leaving a lower lingering residue.
We also employ the use of Nuetron Technology, which kills organic matter, people, animals, & plants,
but post-detonation isotobe decay is less lingering and quicker decaying allowing entry into the target area sooner.
Aerial bursts wipe out the populations, but leave buildings standing except those within the primary blast zone.
Wipe out an entire city's population and only loose the infastructue of a few hundred meters of footprint.

Pop!

IIRC, all the ER weapons have been removed from our active arsenal. There might still be some in the hedge stockpile though.

 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: K1052

IIRC, all the ER weapons have been removed from our active arsenal. There might still be some in the hedge stockpile though.

Bunker Penetrators - Tactical nukes designed to explode some 20+ feet underground near shelters.

They are able to get through up to 30 feet of re-inforced concrete before detonation.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,121
37,391
136
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Originally posted by: K1052

IIRC, all the ER weapons have been removed from our active arsenal. There might still be some in the hedge stockpile though.

Bunker Penetrators - Tactical nukes designed to explode some 20+ feet underground near shelters.

They are able to get through up to 30 feet of re-inforced concrete before detonation.

The B61 is still a normal nuclear weapon, even when configured to the lowest yield setting (radiation case intact and no fusion).




 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: K1052

The B61 is still a normal nuclear weapon, even when configured to the lowest yield setting (radiation case intact and no fusion).


Presently we don't really know the status of the programs that are in work today, and won't for many more years.
We just have to accomodate for thier support and deployment.
They won't even discuss test data or confirm 'earthquakes' around Nevada.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,943
264
126
Solid fuels are cheaper, not more efficient. More energy can be crammed into the same space using liquid fuel.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
7-4-2006 NORAD declares DEFCON 3, North Korea readies launch for July 4th

NORAD Also Goes On Heightened Alert

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. - The Cheyenne Mountain Air Station and Buckley Air Force Base were among four bases nationwide that went on higher alert.

Vandenberg Air Force in California and Patrick Air Force Base in Florida were also on heightened alert, after the U.S. Space Command in Colorado Springs issued the security increase.

North American Aerospace Defense Command, headquartered deep inside Cheyenne Mountain in Colorado Springs, went to "Bravo-Plus" alert status as part of the heightened alert.

There are five levels of alert used by NORAD are: normal, Alpha (low), Bravo (medium), Charlie (high) and Delta (critical). "Bravo-Plus" is slightly higher than a medium threat level.

On Monday, North Korea said it would respond to a pre-emptive U.S. military attack with an "annihilating strike and a nuclear war"
 

Vegitto

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
5,234
1
0
I kind of wonder if N.K. will still pursue their plan for world domination :laugh:.
 

GroundedSailor

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2001
2,502
0
76
Just came on CNN that N Korea has launched a missile - not the long range one that everyone has been watching but a smaller one from a different site.

See banner on top of CNN's home page.

http://www.cnn.com/




 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: Horus
They launched their missle, apparently.


And missed their target area by 15 miles in a 25 mile distance, at least they didn't hit their foot.



 

Vegitto

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
5,234
1
0
Those sons of bitches need to be put in line. No means no, even for you, Kim.
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
1
0
based on preliminary news it seems they launched the big one and it didn't work, more will be clear soon hopefully...
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Does this mean I should vote republican?

I'm a-scared!

:roll:

Hey, Vegitto, who puts bush in line? Or is he allowed to do whatever he likes just because he has the most powerful military? And if so, what does that REALLY say about America?
 
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