NASA to Unveil Plans to Send 4 Astronauts to Moon in 2018

SirUlli

Senior member
Jan 13, 2003
828
0
0
WASHINGTON ? NASA briefed senior White House officials Wednesday on its plan to spend $100 billion and the next 12 years building the spacecraft and rockets it needs to put humans back on the Moon by 2018.

The U.S. space agency now expects to roll out its lunar exploration plan to key Congressional committees on Friday and to the broader public through a news conference on Monday, Washington sources tell SPACE.com.
...

Full Story

http://www.space.com/news/050914_nasa_cev_update.html

the next Step to the the Future of Space travelling

Sir Ulli
 

CheesePoofs

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2004
3,163
0
0
Cool. Finally they get some money ... Isn't nasa's current budget around 4.5 billion or am I way off?

EDIT: No, I was wrong. Nasa's budget increased by only $200 million to 16.4 billion this year
 

bluestrobe

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2004
2,033
1
0
Its sad they could develope a lunar landing in less than 10 years back in the 1960's but they have to take 12 years to do it again in 2006 with all of the advances made since 1969. I was hoping for a human trip to Mars by then.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
$100 billion????
Geez, they could blanket the moon with rovers for that much money. They could probably finance a few comm satellites to beam back data from the far side.

Sorry for my lack of enthusiasm about this matter. Really, rovers or landers could get so much more science for the dollar than humans. And with a round-trip communication time of maybe 3 seconds, remote guidance would become feasible.
 

networkman

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
10,436
1
0
Originally posted by: bluestrobe
Its sad they could develope a lunar landing in less than 10 years back in the 1960's but they have to take 12 years to do it again in 2006 with all of the advances made since 1969. I was hoping for a human trip to Mars by then.

Thank you. That is exactly the same thing that I was thinking! Color me thoroughly un-impressed with NASA's plans. :frown:

With all of the technology, materials, and communications advances we've made in the past 30 years, you'd think they could come up with something a little more ambitious than simply a moon landing. I mean, hello, moon landings were relatively common decades ago. How about a permanent moon base? Being able to build a radio-astronomy station on the moon would make LOTS of scientists quite happy. Optical astronomers could also benefit.

It boggles the mind that experiments in solar sails are left to the private sector when the pay-off for getting probes to Mars and Jupiter could be HUGE, namely in less cost and faster delivery!

I am rather disappointed with NASA at this moment. :disgust:

 

Zbox

Senior member
Aug 29, 2003
881
0
76
Be more disappointed with the majority of Americans for losing their pride and enthusiasm in the space race.
 

RaySun2Be

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
16,565
6
71
Where is Jackie Gleason when you need him?

Pow, to the moon, Alice!

Then we could spend the money for a manned trip to Mars or something.

heh.

I agree with NWM & bluestrobe. You would think with all the supposed technology we have, we could get there in 5 years, not 10.

I guess I'll have to align my hopes with the private sector. let's give THEM 50 billion and see what they can do.
 

Rockhound

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
408
0
0
Originally posted by: Jeff7
$100 billion????
Geez, they could blanket the moon with rovers for that much money. They could probably finance a few comm satellites to beam back data from the far side.

Sorry for my lack of enthusiasm about this matter. Really, rovers or landers could get so much more science for the dollar than humans. And with a round-trip communication time of maybe 3 seconds, remote guidance would become feasible.


The problem is there is no science to be gained from the moon. There is really nothing there of any significant interest. Won't matter if you put 1,000 rovers there, won't tell you a dam thing. Just like knowing if there was water on mars 2 billion years ago. This tells us what and helps us how exactly? There isn't water there now as far as we know so what's the big deal?

Its always "We need to find these things out" and "What are the origins of the universe" kind of mentality that just ends up costing billions of dollars for nothing. And if you think that this mission to the moon is going to only cost $100 billion you've got another thing coming. Double it right now. No government project like this ever costs what they say it will cost, can you say International Space station?

Another good one: If I told you tomorrow that the universe is 13,285,345,129 years old would you be happy? Why is this soooooooooooooooooooo important? What possible concrete value does this have on humanity?

NASA - just another massive government jobs program. Nothing more, nothing less.

Back in the 1960's it actually was a race between us and the Russians to see who could get there first. Now, who cares. If this is the best excuse we can come up with now (If we don't do it someone else will first), we are more pathetic than I thought.

 

networkman

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
10,436
1
0
Hence my suggestion for placing both radio and optical astronomy equipment on the dark side of the moon - scientists will be thrilled for that thing called knowledge. Establishing a permanent base allows for a low-gravity environment, which has a number of advantages over zero-gravity environments, chief amoung them being the effect on the human body.

Humans weren't designed for zero G. The moon, even with a weak gravity makes for an environment that is more Earth-like. Let's test living conditions there before trying to adapt to space. We can take the best of what we know from the Biosphere 1 and Biosphere 2 projects and apply that to a Moon setting, to see how good are technology and bio-planning really is. We're going to need to know anyway for any prolonged trips, such as those imagined for Mars and beyond.

My point is, no one at NASA is thinking far enough, realistically enough. We're not in the same situation as the 60s in a race with the Russians. Heck! Today, we might even consider such a project WITH the Russians! :Q How's that for a turn of events in just a few decades? We need to have... a business plan for going to the Moon. We need to have stated goals, with real plans for return on investment. Obviously there are experiments we can't do in an enironment on Earth. Maybe mining for materials to build the base on the Moon is an option? NASA needs to sell the idea and convince the American public that we need to go to the Moon. It's no longer just enough to say we need to go because it's there.

 

SirUlli

Senior member
Jan 13, 2003
828
0
0
Originally posted by: networkman
Hence my suggestion for placing both radio and optical astronomy equipment on the dark side of the moon - scientists will be thrilled for that thing called knowledge. Establishing a permanent base allows for a low-gravity environment, which has a number of advantages over zero-gravity environments, chief amoung them being the effect on the human body.

Humans weren't designed for zero G. The moon, even with a weak gravity makes for an environment that is more Earth-like. Let's test living conditions there before trying to adapt to space. We can take the best of what we know from the Biosphere 1 and Biosphere 2 projects and apply that to a Moon setting, to see how good are technology and bio-planning really is. We're going to need to know anyway for any prolonged trips, such as those imagined for Mars and beyond.

My point is, no one at NASA is thinking far enough, realistically enough. We're not in the same situation as the 60s in a race with the Russians. Heck! Today, we might even consider such a project WITH the Russians! :Q How's that for a turn of events in just a few decades? We need to have... a business plan for going to the Moon. We need to have stated goals, with real plans for return on investment. Obviously there are experiments we can't do in an enironment on Earth. Maybe mining for materials to build the base on the Moon is an option? NASA needs to sell the idea and convince the American public that we need to go to the Moon. It's no longer just enough to say we need to go because it's there.


that is my point also.........

Sir Ulli
 

CheesePoofs

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2004
3,163
0
0
I'm pretty sure the purpose of the initial unspectacular moon landing is to make sure that the technology works so that on later missions NASA will be able to set up a permanent base of operations, both to test technology for a Mars trip and to place equiptment there (such as radio and optical astronomy stuff). The reason its costing so much/taking so long is they are designing this craft to be be able to take a large payload to the moon, and the CEV is not just going to the moon, it is supposed to be the same ship that will take us to mars, replace the shuttle, visit near-earth objects, lagrange points (or however you spell that), etc.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
Originally posted by: Rockhound
Originally posted by: Jeff7
$100 billion????
Geez, they could blanket the moon with rovers for that much money. They could probably finance a few comm satellites to beam back data from the far side.

Sorry for my lack of enthusiasm about this matter. Really, rovers or landers could get so much more science for the dollar than humans. And with a round-trip communication time of maybe 3 seconds, remote guidance would become feasible.


The problem is there is no science to be gained from the moon. There is really nothing there of any significant interest. Won't matter if you put 1,000 rovers there, won't tell you a dam thing. Just like knowing if there was water on mars 2 billion years ago. This tells us what and helps us how exactly? There isn't water there now as far as we know so what's the big deal?

Its always "We need to find these things out" and "What are the origins of the universe" kind of mentality that just ends up costing billions of dollars for nothing. And if you think that this mission to the moon is going to only cost $100 billion you've got another thing coming. Double it right now. No government project like this ever costs what they say it will cost, can you say International Space station?

Another good one: If I told you tomorrow that the universe is 13,285,345,129 years old would you be happy? Why is this soooooooooooooooooooo important? What possible concrete value does this have on humanity?

NASA - just another massive government jobs program. Nothing more, nothing less.

Back in the 1960's it actually was a race between us and the Russians to see who could get there first. Now, who cares. If this is the best excuse we can come up with now (If we don't do it someone else will first), we are more pathetic than I thought.

Humans have always been explorers; we're taking it to another level with NASA. Some of my interests right now are the Prometheus project (fission-powered propolsion) which apparently is cancelled, and a Europa orbiter and lander. Europa has some source of heat, and a good possibility of a subsurface ocean.

Mars does have water ice, some decent deposits of it. And during the day, near the surface, it gets warm enough to turn it to vapor (pressure is too low for liquid water).

And as for my blanket of rovers bit, that was mainly hypothetical. If anything, I say to save the $100 billion and put it to more useful projects. A Hubble replacement perhaps, maybe out where the James Webb Telescope is to orbit (JWT doesn't see visible light wavelengths).

Maybe mining for materials to build the base on the Moon is an option?
Maybe, but that'd mean building refineries there, which will need power sources. One theory is that the moon was blasted off of Earth in its infancy, perhaps where the Pacific Ocean is now, which explains why the two worlds are made of such similar materials. So if the Moon has it, we've already got it here. Main advantage would be YEARS in the future - building and launching things from the Moon - lower gravity means either allowances for heavier probes, or less fuel used.

NASA's other benefits include technological spinoffs. Some that I found online awhile ago:

?Lifeshears -- A rescue tool which quickly cuts debris to free accident victims, using the same power source used to separate Solid Rocket Boosters from the Shuttle.

?Breast Cancer Screening -- A silicon chip originally developed for NASA's Hubble Space Telescope makes the process less painful, less scarring, and less expensive than the traditional biopsy.

?Grooved Runways -- Now applied to highways, this water-draining innovation has led to an astounding 85 percent reduction in highway accidents.

?Attention Getter -- Techniques used to measure brain activity in NASA pilots are being used to improve attention spans for children with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)

?cochlear implant

- Inspiration for Computer Mouse

- Bone Loss Research

- Sunglasses (derived from NASA research)

- Solar cell refinements

- An air filtration system that can kill all types of harmful bacteria - even anthrax -- and remove allergens from the air with better than 90 percent efficiency.

- An ultralight solar concentrator that gathers power from the Sun and efficiently converts it into electrical power. This could provide a significant source of energy for future space missions.

- A water purification process capable of removing two troublesome types of contaminants, perchlorate and nitrate, from water and rendering them harmless.

- Digital cameras and image processing



Pure science is very important too - science without a definite goal in mind. Without it, we'd still be living in caves. Leaving a cave offers no immediate benefits - all it does is expose you to the elements and predation. No advantage there, right?
 

Assimilator1

Elite Member
Nov 4, 1999
24,120
507
126
Originally posted by: networkman
Originally posted by: bluestrobe
Its sad they could develope a lunar landing in less than 10 years back in the 1960's but they have to take 12 years to do it again in 2006 with all of the advances made since 1969. I was hoping for a human trip to Mars by then.

Thank you. That is exactly the same thing that I was thinking! Color me thoroughly un-impressed with NASA's plans. :frown:

With all of the technology, materials, and communications advances we've made in the past 30 years, you'd think they could come up with something a little more ambitious than simply a moon landing. I mean, hello, moon landings were relatively common decades ago. How about a permanent moon base? Being able to build a radio-astronomy station on the moon would make LOTS of scientists quite happy. Optical astronomers could also benefit.

It boggles the mind that experiments in solar sails are left to the private sector when the pay-off for getting probes to Mars and Jupiter could be HUGE, namely in less cost and faster delivery!

I am rather disappointed with NASA at this moment. :disgust:

Isn't the point of this upcoming moonlanding to establish a base to enable us to go to Mars?.In that context it makes much more sense.

Originally posted by: networkman
Hence my suggestion for placing both radio and optical astronomy equipment on the dark side of the moon - scientists will be thrilled for that thing called knowledge. Establishing a permanent base allows for a low-gravity environment, which has a number of advantages over zero-gravity environments, chief amoung them being the effect on the human body.

Humans weren't designed for zero G. The moon, even with a weak gravity makes for an environment that is more Earth-like. Let's test living conditions there before trying to adapt to space. We can take the best of what we know from the Biosphere 1 and Biosphere 2 projects and apply that to a Moon setting, to see how good are technology and bio-planning really is. We're going to need to know anyway for any prolonged trips, such as those imagined for Mars and beyond.

My point is, no one at NASA is thinking far enough, realistically enough. We're not in the same situation as the 60s in a race with the Russians. Heck! Today, we might even consider such a project WITH the Russians! :Q How's that for a turn of events in just a few decades? We need to have... a business plan for going to the Moon. We need to have stated goals, with real plans for return on investment. Obviously there are experiments we can't do in an enironment on Earth. Maybe mining for materials to build the base on the Moon is an option? NASA needs to sell the idea and convince the American public that we need to go to the Moon. It's no longer just enough to say we need to go because it's there.

Sounds good to me

Rockhound
You should be proud that at least your country has a space program ,unlike here in the UK where no real money goes into space programs,we don't even join in the ESA (goverment wise I mean).
Many fascinating things have been discovered about our solar system as a result of NASA & other agencies explorations.
Oh btw yes there is water on Mars (in ice form) ,that's been known for years.
They've even found some on the darkside of the moon!

NASA - just another massive government jobs program. Nothing more, nothing less.

Oh come on ,countless discoveries over the years has already proven that not to be the case

 

MicroChrome

Senior member
Mar 8, 2005
430
0
0
What ever happend to the space elevator ??? That would be more important then a manned mission to the moon. Do they plan to at least build a base station?
 

PieDerro

Senior member
Apr 19, 2000
813
0
0
Whilst i don't necessarily agree with the objections to sending man to the moon again, i'm all in favour of putting that money to better use (still space exploration). Surely, with 12 years, and all the brilliant scientists and technology that $100 billion could buy, we could be maybe considering FTL in 20-30 years?

And yes... as Ray said... let the private sector have a shot. Imagine something like a $200billion carrot on a stick for the organisation or conglomerate that demonstrates feasible scientific FTL travel?! Someone would figure it out. Go show Google Earth to someone living in 1900 and I'm sure they'd say "Impossible!"



P.S. As a side note, i'm encouraged that there are people here who are forward-thinking enough to appreciate the need for space investment et al. Sure, there is a heap of criticism out there about why the US is spending so much to go to the moon when there are many other problems facing all parts of the world today - but it's not a question of Return on Investment etc - it's about the inexorable concept called "progress". Leaving aside all the medical, scientific and technological advancement that the past 50 years of Space Technology Development and Exploration has given the world (and that is a big thing to leave all of this aside) i would still say that every single dollar spent has been worth it. You need to give people something to aim for. After all, isn't it human nature to want to do better? To do more? To keep pushing the limits?

Hehe... my P.S. went a little longer than anticipated
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
Heh, probably not FTL travel this century. But cheap, sustainable fusion power - I see THAT as being quite plausible within 20 years. Think of what that could do. I don't know much about deuterium production, but I imagine that it would take electricity. So set up one fusion power plant to produce deuterium. I assume that could work, at any rate. From there, with a good, stable supply of fuel, build another fusion plant for normal commercial use. Start phasing out fossil fuel and fission reactors right away then.
The money could also be used for solar and wind research. Fusion plants will likely be expensive early on. Having alternate sources in the meantime would be quite nice.

Yeah, I like space exploration - I follow the Mars Exploration Rovers, Cassini, and a few others rather closely. More of that is fine - robots are much cheaper than humans to send places. They withstand far greater acceleration forces (MER withstood about 40Gs on initial impact with Mars' surface), they don't need to eat, they don't excrete anything, they have no yearning to return home, and you can work them to death, literally. An astronaut would probably start whining about cruelty if you didn't send food, or if you made him work for a week without a break.

On the subject of "that's impossible" - I loved hearing one guy at a science museum talk about lasers. He said if you'd go back only a few decades and say, "one day, I'll be able to carry a laser emitter in my pocket," you'd be called utterly insane. Now we've got tiny laser diodes in portable CD players, or in a cheap little laser pointer.
 

Assimilator1

Elite Member
Nov 4, 1999
24,120
507
126
I didn't think Fusion power was anywhere near usable atm ,got any info on that?

Btw I would of thought that FTL travel is well over a 100yrs off ,we have no means of providing sufficient power to do that atm let alone the actual drive to do it
 

CheesePoofs

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2004
3,163
0
0
I believe there is a group in the works of creating a fusion test-bed. The main problem, I believe, is that there are few materials available to us that can withstand the onslaught of neutrons (?) the particular type of fusion that is easiest to do creates. But there are different atoms that can be combined to create fusion power, so I'm sure with enough funding and some time we can get it to work.

Possibly with the creation of an affordable, sustainable fusion plant we will be able to use fusion power to propel spacecrafts, although I doubt that would give anywhere near enough power to reach FTL speeds.
 

Wolfsraider

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2002
8,305
0
76
Are they gonna fake this one too

J/k

I doubt we will ever have a say in what NASA/The government decide to spend money on or how much.

I would like to see it (the money) used elsewhere as well.

A base on the moon would be nice, someday in my lifetime, I would love to have a chance at a moon vacation. lol
 

CheesePoofs

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2004
3,163
0
0
Here's a nice Wikipedia article on Fusion Power, and another one on cold fusion, a controversial type of fusion that some say exists, some say doesn't. Cold fusion's big bonus is it doesn't have to take place at really, really high temperatures, so, if it ever works, it is much more practical for use in the home or in a car.

ITER is, as far as I know, the first fusion reactor being built. This is another Wikipedia article on it, because they have a horrible website.

I think it looks quite promising.
 
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