National Guard may be called out to Police Chicago streets

[nick1985]

For the record, I'm not in favor either way of gun control. I don't think gun control is the variable that needs to be changed to reduce homicides.

As for your response, you've also provided as much evidence as I have, which is none. I think it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to quantify how many of these deaths could be prevented if the person getting attacked was armed.

It is no suprise that states with open/conceal carry and more lax gun laws tend to have less violent crime.

 

[Jaskalas]

I dont get it either. The liberals are always telling me how gun control laws save lives.


Seems to me that dumbass gun control laws, such as the ones Chicago has in place, do nothing to stop crime and only prevent law abiding citizens from defending themselves, no?

Pretty sure they'd consider it a crime if they defended themselves. Ergo, they've helped curb crime and violent deaths!

You could put guns in people's hands, but Dems would still keep it a crime to use it.

 

[lothar]

how about not enough income to actually own a house and raise a family? therefore they sell drugs and join gangs.

Nonsense rubbish.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housing/hvs/rates/files/tab6_msa_05_10_hmr.xls
Chicago has a Home Ownership rate of 67.4%, which is the average across the US.
FYI: Avg Home Ownership in the US is 67.8%

Honolulu, Milwaukee, Raleigh, and other areas I didn't mention from the link all have much lower Home Ownership rates than Chicago, but yet we don't hear of violence, gangs, and drug use.

Myth busted.
Next?

 

[MrEgo]

It is no suprise that states with open/conceal carry and more lax gun laws tend to have less violent crime.

What states are you referring to and what is the violent crime rate compared to a state with a high rate?

I hope you're not talking about states like Kansas or Wyoming where gangs and metropolitan areas are almost non-existent.

 

[Brainonska511]

It is no suprise that states with open/conceal carry and more lax gun laws tend to have less violent crime.

Because correlation implies causation? Right....

 

[nick1985]

Because correlation implies causation? Right....

It certainly makes you wonder

 

[MrEgo]

It is no suprise that states with open/conceal carry and more lax gun laws tend to have less violent crime.

You didn't just make that up, did you?

 

[nick1985]

You didn't just make that up, did you?

http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/scorecard/UT/

Check out the states that get good...i mean "bad" scores. Then look up their violent crime rates. The states with low scores TEND to have less violent crime.

Face it, places where gun control laws are insane are crime haves. DC...Chicago...California...

 

[Zargon]

how about not enough income to actually own a house and raise a family? therefore they sell drugs and join gangs.

how about they dropped out of school so they could sell drugs?

most of those assholes arent fucking victims/sheep, they are the wolves.

 

[xj0hnx]

http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/scorecard/UT/

Check out the states that get good...i mean "bad" scores. Then look up their violent crime rates. The states with low scores TEND to have less violent crime.

Face it, places where gun control laws are insane are crime haves. DC...Chicago...California...

The meccas of failed liberal social experiments also the epicenters of violence and decay of social fabric? So it isn't so.

 

[xj0hnx]

Revoking gun control would just introduce new problems such as accidental shootings, bullet ricochets, firing into a crowd and missing your target, etc. We're f'd either way as long as the root cause isn't handled - which is most likely gangs.

Bullshit, 100% pure bullshit. Not only do places that have less stringent gun control laws have less crime, they also have fewer accidental shootings. When they let the AWB sunset the pro-gun control crowd cried about how murder and crime would skyrocket, yet the streets have not filled with blood, and no new increase in violence took place ...amazing huh. Fact is that law abiding gun owners are generally a very responsible crowd, it's the criminals, and gangbangers that are the problem, you know, the ones that don't obey laws anyway.

In 1987 when Florida past their conceal carry laws they started tracking crimes commited by license holders, between 87-92 there were ...4, none that resulted in injury, between 87-96 there were 18 total. Their homicide rate drop 36%, their firearm homicide rate dropped 37%, their hand gun homicide rate dropped 41% between 87-96.

 

[MrEgo]

http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/scorecard/UT/

Check out the states that get good...i mean "bad" scores. Then look up their violent crime rates. The states with low scores TEND to have less violent crime.

Face it, places where gun control laws are insane are crime haves. DC...Chicago...California...

Ok, you provided a link to a chart that shows how loose or tight each state has their gun controls. That's fine, but it doesn't show their correlation to violent crime rates, so I decided to look for myself.

I came up with this link:
http://www.infoplease.com/us/statistics/crime-rate-state.html

I suppose its credibility can be debated, and I welcome anyone that has a more reliable source (although they are citing it from the FBI), but I took the violent crime rates from the chart, pasted it into Excel, and sorted the results from highest to lowest. Your top 10 states of violent crime rates per 100,000 people:

DC 1,414.30 (Very Strong GC Laws)
S.C. 788.3 (Very Loose GC Laws)
Tenn. 753.3 (Very Loose GC Laws)
Nev. 750.6 (Very Loose GC Laws)
La. 729.5 (Very Loose GC Laws)
Fla. 722.6 (Very Loose GC Laws)
Del. 689.2 (Loose GC Laws)
N.M. 664.2 (Very Loose GC Laws)
Alaska 661.2 (Very Loose GC Laws)
Md. 641.9 (Strong GC Laws)

Probably not the results you were hoping for..

*Edit - it is not the murder rate, it is the violent crime rate per 100,000 people.

 

[Xellos2099]

I personally think roughly 70% of the gun related death are gang related, which leave us around 30% that are due to robbery, accident, etc etc. I live in Chicago for 20 years, I dunno about you but I have noticed that there are a shit load more robbery in my area than a few years back. Bad economy might have something to do with it, or it could be the mission that open up near my neighborhood, but who know...

 

[MrEgo]

Bullshit, 100% pure bullshit. Not only do places that have less stringent gun control laws have less crime, they also have fewer accidental shootings. When they let the AWB sunset the pro-gun control crowd cried about how murder and crime would skyrocket, yet the streets have not filled with blood, and no new increase in violence took place ...amazing huh. Fact is that law abiding gun owners are generally a very responsible crowd, it's the criminals, and gangbangers that are the problem, you know, teh ones that don't obey laws anyway.

Ok, great, I'll even concede that because I don't really care to argue it. What really needs to be shown is that loosening up the GC laws will actually reduce violent crimes. If hard evidence can be shown, then I would love to see it. I would definitely be in favor of getting rid of gun control if that were the case.

 

[dmcowen674]

I never thought of you as someone being pro second amendment...
I guess you're not as much an idiot/troll as I thought you were given your other positions on issues.

What you are used to seeing is incorrect blather spewed by the radical Republicans on here with major jealousy and envy issues.

 

[dmcowen674]

What states are you referring to and what is the violent crime rate compared to a state with a high rate?

I hope you're not talking about states like Kansas or Wyoming where gangs and metropolitan areas are almost non-existent.

No, look up Kenessaw Georgia where they actually have a law on the books that all citizens capable of carrying a gun are required to do so.

 

[Zargon]

Ok, you provided a link to a chart that shows how loose or tight each state has their gun controls. That's fine, but it doesn't show their correlation to violent crime rates, so I decided to look for myself.

I came up with this link:
http://www.infoplease.com/us/statistics/crime-rate-state.html

I suppose its credibility can be debated, and I welcome anyone that has a more reliable source (although they are citing it from the FBI), but I took the violent crime rates from the chart, pasted it into Excel, and sorted the results from highest to lowest. Your top 10 states of violent crime rates per 100,000 people:

DC 1,414.30 (Very Strong GC Laws)
S.C. 788.3 (Very Loose GC Laws)
Tenn. 753.3 (Very Loose GC Laws)
Nev. 750.6 (Very Loose GC Laws)
La. 729.5 (Very Loose GC Laws)
Fla. 722.6 (Very Loose GC Laws)
Del. 689.2 (Loose GC Laws)
N.M. 664.2 (Very Loose GC Laws)
Alaska 661.2 (Very Loose GC Laws)
Md. 641.9 (Strong GC Laws)

Probably not the results you were hoping for..

*Edit - it is not the murder rate, it is the violent crime rate per 100,000 people.

Floridas was higher until they added CC a while back, since then it was dropping, no idea if its going back up now or what

 

[K1052]

Happens every year when the weather starts to get decent. Gang initiations plus fights over turf.

Gun rights have little to do with this (odds are the Supreme Court will strike down the ban soon). If you want to point the blame at something I suggest drug prohibition.

 

[MrEgo]

Happens every year when the weather starts to get decent. Gang initiations plus fights over turf.

Gun rights have little to do with this (odds are the Supreme Court will strike down the ban soon). If you want to point the blame at something I suggest drug prohibition.

Which is my whole point. I don't believe that gun control laws (pro or con) are the real issue here.

 

[xj0hnx]

Ok, great, I'll even concede that because I don't really care to argue it. What really needs to be shown is that loosening up the GC laws will actually reduce violent crimes. If hard evidence can be shown, then I would love to see it. I would definitely be in favor of getting rid of gun control if that were the case.

The facts are out there, the problem is that politicians use guns as a scapegoat, and that is effective with the non-thinking sheeple.

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.1/gun-facts-5.1-screen.pdf

People don't want real reform, or fixes, they want easy feel good fixes. People don't want to accept responsibility, they want to scapegoat inanimate objects. Why hold a criminal responsible when we can hold the tool he used responsible?

At this point in our society there are millions of firearms out there already, to try to ban them is futile, we need to educate the public, and get more firearms in the hands of responsible, law abiding citizens, and take them from criminals whenever we get a chance.

Our judicial system is a sick joke, when you can get more time for a pound pot than you can for murder, or rape something is seriously wrong.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I never thought of you as someone being pro second amendment...
I guess you're not as much an idiot/troll as I thought you were given your other positions on issues.

No, he is -- just remember that even a broken clock is right twice per day. :awe:

 

[IndyColtsFan]

What you are used to seeing is incorrect blather spewed by the radical Republicans on here with major jealousy and envy issues.

Comedy gold, again. Dave, please move to Hollywood and speak to writers about a sitcom about your life. Your delusions of grandeur and persecution complex would make for excellent comedy. Then you might actually have a reason for someone to envy you.

 

[nick1985]

Which is my whole point. I don't believe that gun control laws (pro or con) are the real issue here.

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.1/gun-facts-5.1-screen.pdf

Amazing PDF xjohnx. Pretty much sums it all up for you.

 

[soccerballtux]

Then you address why they don't have enough income and why they think it is okay to sell drugs . Lots of people are poor, but they don't kill people , join gangs, or sell drugs.

if we hadn't let illegal immigrants replace all of the jobs that don't require education.

Maybe we should just legalize all of them surely that will fix the problem.

 

[MrEgo]

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.1/gun-facts-5.1-screen.pdf

Amazing PDF xjohnx. Pretty much sums it all up for you.

Forgive me for not wanting to read 105 pages, but does it say somewhere in there that gun control laws actually increase the amount of violent crimes?