Natural vs enhanced

[Sixguns]

Anybody here not natural? I've got a few friends who have either been using for years or just started and keep telling me to try it. If I have no desire to compete in anything is there any real reason to use? Yes I'd love to get bigger and stronger but is it worth it? Any input either for or against.

 

[Kaido]

If I have no desire to compete in anything is there any real reason to use?

Oh sure, there's a ton of reasons other than competing - to get girls, to improve your self-confidence, to get better results, etc. But it's like chugging protein shakes...do you really need it, when you can just eat real food? Not really (unless you specifically want to compete with other people using PED's), but people get sucked into the lifestyle & ideas that go along with it. Side note, this is a good article on the myth of protein requirements:

http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

Interestingly enough, I always thought that steroids were a horrible poison, but the documentary (available on Netflix) "Bigger, Faster, Stronger" kind of changed my mind about them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KzGfuFFSxA

I still don't personally think they're a good idea or condone them, but seeing the real scoop on steroids was pretty eye-opening from an educational point-of-view. And of course, like Lance Armstrong's doping scandal, just because you take magic juice doesn't mean you're going to get instant, amazing results - you still have to work really hard, but you do get bigger, faster, and stronger faster & easier. If your discipline stinks now, you're not magically going to develop new habits to harness the power of drugs, you know?

That, and you simply can't get the same visible, physical results without them. There's a pretty good site called Natty or Not that has a ton of great information discussing the topic of what natural & enhanced looks like: (check out the Archive for more articles)

http://nattyornot.com/how-big-can-you-get-naturally-without-steroids/

It also depends on what you want to put in your body. I'm pretty picky...sure I'll eat fast food & sugar sometimes, but I don't even touch caffeine, which may be extreme for some people, and definitely don't advocate illegal steroid use whatsoever. And for me, it's really interesting to see what's coming out of modern science & medicine in terms of getting education & getting results, everything from clean eating to intermittent fasting to flexible dieting, stuff that doesn't involve having to live a shady lifestyle.

Anyway, it doesn't sound like you have a driving reason to use that stuff other than getting better results, but if you're not sleeping enough, eating enough, and exercising enough already, nothing is going to change anyway...and as people like Lance, Arnold, etc., have shown, those are tools that enhance what you're already doing (and also have dead giveaways physically, like 3D steroid deltoids), not magic pills that give overnight results. One other thing is you have to decide if you want to live a secret life around obtaining & using this stuff, and possibly have to hide it from your girlfriend, parents, friends, etc. So there's a few factors involved when thinking about this stuff...

 

[SP33Demon]

Paging Zivic. He can probably tell you more.

 

[z1ggy]

Paging Zivic. He can probably tell you more.

He's natty but knows a lot about gear.

From what I can tell based on research I did (because I struggled with this myself) is that it's simply not worth it in the end if your life/career is not revolving around how your body looks or performs.

With out making a huge long post of all the pro's cons, risks and otherwise, the most basic danger one can face is basically screwing up your natural T production after the fact. Yes if you cycle properly and do the PCT right you may not have any problems, but there are many stories online of guys having issues with ED, sex drive issues, etc. Man boobs, acne, mood swings... etc.

Lastly, after you come off the gear, you may likely lose much of what you gained over time if you're putting on more mass that your natural limit says you can. So while you look awesome for a short time, you basically toss money out the window because you eventually lose it.

All in all I decided I don't want to mess with it. I already get compliments from girls on my body and I've never used, and I'm still not near my genetic limit. Worst thing imaginable would be having the body of a Greek God, but a flaccid floppy schlong with little berries. Talk about a let down.

 

[Zivic]

Paging Zivic. He can probably tell you more.

it is a personal choice that you have to make for yourself. definitely make a pros and cons list.

what I can tell you is that if you start to use, be prepared to use for the rest of your life. Are you ready to commit to weekly injections for the rest of your days? that leads to the second bit of advise. Do not take orals.

Steroids are not always the answer to getting big/developed. they are only one factor in the equation. if you are training now and not gaining size, steroids aren't probably going to be all the much help to you.... why? because you probably have one or more things now that are more important to your progress that you don't have figured out. If your training sucks, or your diet sucks, or your genetics suck steroids aren't all of a sudden going to correct all those things. They can help, but aren't going to be the hail marry fix a lot of people want to make them out to be.

Steroids are not legal in the US. this means you probably don't have the best connections to get pharma grade stuff... and at that point, what the heck are you really getting? and are you willing to risk your health and life with black market gear?

personally I have seen people use. some have had Ok results, some, no results at all. When I was younger I trained with a few guys on gear. They weren't stronger than I was. Now I know a few guys at my new gym that use. One in his mid 20's that is an aspiring bodybuilder that "wants to make it to the olympia stage". he's 230-240'ish, but you put us side by side and no way he looks like he has 30 lbs on me, nor does he look subjectively better.... simply heavier. At the end of the day, what's he getting out of it?

The guys that seem to get the most out of them are the ones that have trained a long time and get to their late 30's and into their 40's. they know how to train, they know how to eat, they have all their ducks in a row and the lagging factor is their test levels due to their age. They can go to their doctors and get a script, maybe doc gives them a little bump to help them out

For me it was always a deal where those that I know used didn't look better, or weren't stronger than me, so why did I personally want to risk it? I kind of joke I am just buying my time till I can go to my doctor, get a script and drive over to the target store pharmacy and get my gear. On top of all that, I wasn't using my body to make money -> I wasn't a pro athlete, wasn't competing in powerlifting or bodybuilding, wasn't modeling. sure I would likely feel better/stronger as well as look better, but I was already pretty darn strong and felt I looked as good as I needed to; heck I have always been accused of using steroids.

Again, it's a personal choice, just don't be naive into thinking that drugs are the answer to what is keeping you from where you want to be.

 

[Mai72]

Does anyone remember Zyzz?

He's the guy from Australia who started the aesthetic revolution when he was 18. Posted frequently on YouTube. Totally transformed his body from a World of Warcraft geek to an Alpha. The guy was frekin ripped. He also died from a heart attack at the young age of 22 in a massage parlor in Bangkok, Thailand.

Supposedly, he was taking just about everything and paid the price. Steroids, clen, dren, tren, fat burners, and party drugs like cocaine and ecstasy. He wanted that ripped dry look 24/7 which is nearly impossible.

You need to ask yourself are you willing to jeopardize your 30s and beyond for the present. Is it worth it? It reminds me of sunbathers. They are willing to look good now, but in the near future they are going to have to deal with skin cancer and premature aging.

This was Zyzz if you didn't know what he looked like.

 

[SP33Demon]

Good post Zivic. I will add that you can keep your test levels elevated if you are consistently working out. I've seen some guys in their 50's look like they're in their early 30's due to genetics and the fact they work hard in the gym and have been consistent for the past 20 years. You don't need drugs to do this.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Steroids are not legal in the US. this means you probably don't have the best connections to get pharma grade stuff... and at that point, what the heck are you really getting? and are you willing to risk your health and life with black market gear?

THIS ^

"Here, inject this into your blood stream"

"OK"

Yeah... No. The reason gear is so dangerous is quite literally because of the lack market.

That said, I am not opposed to anyone taking gear unless they are competing on a level where it is banned. But then my issue is with cheating, not taking gear.

I have never taken gear, but was offered a few times. Always refused. I'd rather not risk getting in trouble with the law, or injecting something into my body that could be poison.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I guess I'd say that someone who already knew how to build a good physique naturally would have great results with steroids, but many of the supposed steroids fueled results I've seen aren't super impressive to me. In fact, a large number of them look legitimately achievable naturally IMO.

I mean, I feel like I'm both bigger and close to as lean as the Zyzz guy pictured above and he was using steroids? I don't even take supplements of any kind, just make damn sure my diet is under control while maintaining a consistent, progressive workout regimen. I dunno. Maybe he got what he got while doing a lot less work than I do. I find that hard to believe too because I've basically pared the standard bodybuilding split down to the bare essentials. A long weight lifting session for me is maybe 30 minutes.

The thing is that I've seen a ton of guys that size who are supposedly steroids users. If that's all you get then why bother? I'd say get to that level without steroids, start using them while maintaining the same regimen that got you there, and maybe you'll get your money's worth.

 

[Sixguns]

I dont think I would ever use the stuff because I know that if I did and saw results I would never want to stop. Im not trying to impress anybody, married for almost 8 years now. My main goals in life is to just be a better me. I lost 70 pounds and want to be a good role model for my 2 kids. I was using, it would be a lie in my mind. As for my friends who use. One has been using/dealing for years and yeah he is big but isnt cut up or anything. A few others used and really thought it was a magic pill they would take and muscles would just show up. They used for a few months and didnt see any results but neither of them really ever pushed themselves in the gym or with diet.

I really think my genetics are my main problem but that doesnt mean I cant continue to push my self and just be health. High blood pressure/diabetes runs in my family and if I can keep those away while having some definition at the same time I will be happy.

 

[LPCTech]

IMO if you arent going to make a ton of money from it, why risk your health for other peoples opinions of your attractiveness. foolish.

lift, eat, sleep repeat. And live a long time.

 

[Mai72]

I guess I'd say that someone who already knew how to build a good physique naturally would have great results with steroids, but many of the supposed steroids fueled results I've seen aren't super impressive to me. In fact, a large number of them look legitimately achievable naturally IMO.

I mean, I feel like I'm both bigger and close to as lean as the Zyzz guy pictured above and he was using steroids? I don't even take supplements of any kind, just make damn sure my diet is under control while maintaining a consistent, progressive workout regimen. I dunno. Maybe he got what he got while doing a lot less work than I do. I find that hard to believe too because I've basically pared the standard bodybuilding split down to the bare essentials. A long weight lifting session for me is maybe 30 minutes.

The thing is that I've seen a ton of guys that size who are supposedly steroids users. If that's all you get then why bother? I'd say get to that level without steroids, start using them while maintaining the same regimen that got you there, and maybe you'll get your money's worth.

With Zyzz, he never wanted to be massive. He was all about the aesthetics. Having a pleasing looking body for the opposite sex. That was his goal. If you look at his videos and pics just before he passed away, he was gaining mass. His heart just blew up before he could get huge.

I don't get the obsession with getting huge. Most women are repulsed by too much muscle. Seems like it's to show off to other guys in the gym and IRL.

 

[Zivic]

I don't get the obsession with getting huge. Most women are repulsed by too much muscle. Seems like it's to show off to other guys in the gym and IRL.

this right there is the truth. I have been married for almost 13 yrs now and my wife does like the muscle, but not all women do. It's like buying that lambo to impress the ladies.... you know who really notices? the guys.....

 

[SlitheryDee]

With Zyzz, he never wanted to be massive. He was all about the aesthetics. Having a pleasing looking body for the opposite sex. That was his goal. If you look at his videos and pics just before he passed away, he was gaining mass. His heart just blew up before he could get huge.

I don't get the obsession with getting huge. Most women are repulsed by too much muscle. Seems like it's to show off to other guys in the gym and IRL.

That's the thing though. You can get exactly what he wanted sans steroids pretty easily, much less taking enough steroids to give you heart problems in your teens or early twenties. Not only was he taking steroids to maintain a body that could be achieved naturally, but he was taking enough of them to have deleterious health effects. It boggles my mind honestly.

 

[edro]

You can't be serious...

Why in the absolute fvck would you take an illegal substance that has terrible side effects, even worse effects after you're off, are dangerous, and are flat out only cheating yourself?!

People who take steroids for the sole purpose of vanity need psycho therapy, not drugs.

 

[fleshconsumed]

this right there is the truth. I have been married for almost 13 yrs now and my wife does like the muscle, but not all women do. It's like buying that lambo to impress the ladies.... you know who really notices? the guys.....

IMO most women like to see some muscle on their man. They don't really like huge guys, but they are definitely attracted to a fit well toned physique. They will deny it to the end because they do not want to appear shallow , but most women strongly prefer a good looking man.

 

[SP33Demon]

IMO most women like to see some muscle on their man. They don't really like huge guys, but they are definitely attracted to a fit well toned physique. They will deny it to the end because they do not want to appear shallow , but most women strongly prefer a good looking man.

Women like men who are dominant personality wise and physically. Muscle usually helps because it means they can dominate other men to a certain degree.

 

[Zivic]

IMO most women like to see some muscle on their man. They don't really like huge guys, but they are definitely attracted to a fit well toned physique. They will deny it to the end because they do not want to appear shallow , but most women strongly prefer a good looking man.

@ 5'8" and anywhere from 200-215 lbs I am more than most women want in terms of muscle. Been told more than a few times by women "that's just too much" or "why do you want to be so big"

then you have the guys asking... "how do you get so big"... "what do you take, I'd like to get that big"

 

[Davidpaul007]

Some great advice here. Personally, since it is illegal in the US that's all the rationale I meed.

 

[bradley]

@ 5'8" and anywhere from 200-215 lbs I am more than most women want in terms of muscle. Been told more than a few times by women "that's just too much" or "why do you want to be so big"

then you have the guys asking... "how do you get so big"... "what do you take, I'd like to get that big"

Yep Zivic, been there done that. I'd rather appeal to ladies than men. In fact, I'm basically trying to improve my aesthetics now. I got tired of consuming so many calories. I started to even hate food, which is contrary to good health. lol

Women like men who are dominant personality wise and physically. Muscle usually helps because it means they can dominate other men to a certain degree.

Yep and anyone who says otherwise is only lying to themselves.

 

[bradley]

Back in 2010, I used to participate on the bodybuilding.com forums with Aziz Shavershian.

The mods had such a love hate relationship with him. They were very jealous imo, cause he had such a magnetic and dynamic presence.

But as much as his aesthetics were wonderful, I believe his words are way more powerful. I still miss the positive change he attempted to affect till this day.

One of my all-time favorite posts from him!

 

[Kaido]

Yep Zivic, been there done that. I'd rather appeal to ladies than men. In fact, I'm basically trying to improve my aesthetics now. I got tired of consuming so many calories. I started to even hate food, which is contrary to good health. lol.

It's all about the dad bod, bro!

http://theodysseyonline.com/clemson/dad-bod/97484

 

[Mai72]

Back in 2010, I used to participate on the bodybuilding.com forums with Aziz Shavershian.

The mods had such a love hate relationship with him. They were very jealous imo, cause he had such a magnetic and dynamic presence.

But as much as his aesthetics were wonderful, I believe his words are way more powerful. I still miss the positive change he attempted to affect till this day.

One of my all-time favorite posts from him!

Have you see the documentaries on Zyzz? They are pretty good. Its amazing the impact he had on bodybuilding when he really didn't do much. He wasn't a pro athlete. He was just a young guy who took a ton of gear, attended raves, and took street drugs.

He had a great physique though. And he was very charismatic and didn't give a f*ck what people thought.

 

[Muse]

I've never been tempted. I wouldn't unless I was confident there was no down side. I figure natural is safer.

IMO if you're motivation is to get the girls you don't need body building drugs or supplements, no way in the world, at least not for the kind of girls I like.