Nature:Sixteen years into the mysterious ‘global-warming hiatus’

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
Fact : Scientific Theories are just that, theories. When they become fact, they call them scientific laws.

Another person that has listened to way too many fundies preaching that evolution is "just" a theory. Go take a 6th grade science class and pay attention during the scientific method lesson.

Laws differ from scientific theories in that they do not posit a mechanism or explanation of phenomena: they are merely distillations of the results of repeated observation. As such, a law is limited in applicability to circumstances resembling those already observed, and may be found false when extrapolated.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,846
13,777
146
A scientific theory needs to be validated by observation.

Based on the global warming theory, computer models were built. None of the computer models builds were able to predict or explain lack of warming of the last 16 years.

Something is clearly amiss on how scientists understand the earth climate system.

And now they are pointing at natural variability as a reason for the lack of warming.

Of course any inquisitive mind will ask if the natural variability can stall the temperatures despite rising CO2 concentrations, why couldn't natural variability have caused the rising temperatures in the first place?

The response from CAGW is that it can't be because otherwise the CO2 as the main driver of the global warming theory would be invalidated, despite the science having barely any clue how these natural cycles actually work.

A scientific theory has been validated by observation. A hypothesis needs to be validated by observation or data.

When you don't know what you are talking about it's easy to be wrong.
 
Last edited:

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,634
180
106
A scientific theory has been validated by observation. A hypothesis needs to be validated by observation or data.

When you don't know what of are talking about its easy to be wrong.

Say that to the agw crowd.

The problem is that they call the agw a scientific theory when it is only an hypothesis.
 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,031
13
81
Huh? If you know we haven't caused climate change before and sea levels rose by feet at the end of the ice age, why make that argument in the first place? Kind of contradicting.

Because the earth changes on its own doesn't mean we can't have an effect.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,846
13,777
146
Say that to the agw crowd.

The problem is that they call the agw a scientific theory when it is only an hypothesis.

No I'm pretty sure they know the difference between a theory and a hypothesis.

The article in nature doesn't say what you think it does. We can measure the incoming and outgoing energy of the Earth. There is more coming in then leaving. This article is showing where a large portion of that excess has been going for the last sixteen years.

You know if I put a cold casserole in the microwave and nuke it for ten minutes, I'd be hard pressed to tell you exactly where it's hot and cold but I'd know it was warmer than when I put it in.

The Earth is much more complicated than a casserole but the inputs, outputs, and response of the system is in general agreement with theory. The specifics however are difficult.
 
Dec 26, 2007
11,783
2
76
There is also a difference between what the media wants it to be and what textbooks want it to be.

Your point?

How about we don't give a shit what media says and let's use the accepted definition of a theory and law (and hypothesis for that matter).
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
Say that to the agw crowd.

The problem is that they call the agw a scientific theory when it is only an hypothesis.

You don't know what a scientific theory actually is do you?


Scientific Theory

"A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. If enough evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, it moves to the next step—known as a theory—in the scientific method and becomes accepted as a valid explanation of a phenomenon."

and

"When used in non-scientific context, the word “theory” implies that something is unproven or speculative. As used in science, however, a theory is an explanation or model based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning, especially one that has been tested and confirmed as a general principle helping to explain and predict natural phenomena."

http://www.livescience.com/21491-what-is-a-scientific-theory-definition-of-theory.html
 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
16,283
3,905
75
There is no "pause".
A new study by British and Canadian researchers shows that the global temperature rise of the past 15 years has been greatly underestimated. The reason is the data gaps in the weather station network, especially in the Arctic. If you fill these data gaps using satellite measurements, the warming trend is more than doubled in the widely used HadCRUT4 data, and the much-discussed “warming pause” has virtually disappeared.
 

bradley

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2000
3,671
2
81
So, best not to do anything to stem the harm man is causing to the environment until even the most skeptical, pro-business layperson is convinced there is a problem?

I find people like you very hard to understand.

Harder to understand doing something for it's own sake, with only a rudimentary understanding of the planet's working nature. Especially regarding Newton's third law, and realizing any wide-scale opposing reaction could be detrimental.
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,537
3
76
Gravity is a law

General relativity is a theory (and it's better than the law of gravitation)

Back off, man! He's a scientist.


BTW, those of you with your checkbooks out, make all funds out to "Climate Change", as "Global Warming" is now defunct. We appreciate your contribution to our grant programs. :thumbsup:
 
Last edited:

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,634
180
106
No I'm pretty sure they know the difference between a theory and a hypothesis.

The article in nature doesn't say what you think it does. We can measure the incoming and outgoing energy of the Earth. There is more coming in then leaving. This article is showing where a large portion of that excess has been going for the last sixteen years.

Can you link me to the instruments that record incoming and departing energy and their data sets showing more energy in than energy out?

If there was more energy coming than leaving we would have a runaway temperature.

We don't have so because a warmer body release energy faster. Of course the atmosphere hasn't been warming.

And then there is weather, which is a good way for the planet to transfer and lose energy.

There is convection, there is ocean circulation, air circulation - all mechanisms present in the planet but absent from a glass greenhouse or a microwave.

The article isn't showing where the energy went, they are hypothesizing where it might be if the AGW theory is correct. There is no data backing up these hypotheses.
 
Last edited:

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,634
180
106
You don't know what a scientific theory actually is do you?


Scientific Theory

"A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. If enough evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, it moves to the next step—known as a theory—in the scientific method and becomes accepted as a valid explanation of a phenomenon."

and

"When used in non-scientific context, the word “theory” implies that something is unproven or speculative. As used in science, however, a theory is an explanation or model based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning, especially one that has been tested and confirmed as a general principle helping to explain and predict natural phenomena."

http://www.livescience.com/21491-what-is-a-scientific-theory-definition-of-theory.html

Is a scientific theory still a scientific theory if the observations are contrary to it and if the predictions are wrong?
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,846
13,777
146
Can you link me to the instruments that record incoming and departing energy and their data sets showing more energy in than energy out?

If there was more energy coming than leaving we would have a runaway temperature.

We don't have so because a warmer body release energy faster. Of course the atmosphere hasn't been warming.

And then there is weather, which is a good way for the planet to transfer and lose energy.

There is convection, there is ocean circulation, air circulation - all mechanisms present in the planet but absent from a glass greenhouse or a microwave.

The article isn't showing where the energy went, they are hypothesizing where it might be if the AGW theory is correct. There is no data backing up these hypotheses.

You can start here:

List of Earth Observing Satellites

List of Solar Observation Satellites

Hmm the part in bold is basically what the datas been showing.

But it's all just can't be true, because Al Gore. Amirite?
 

Pray To Jesus

Diamond Member
Mar 14, 2011
3,642
0
0
Is a scientific theory still a scientific theory if the observations are contrary to it and if the predictions are wrong?

NO. It was never a theory.

It's a hypothesis until the hypothesis predictions matches with data. Then it becomes a theory.
 

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
9,022
600
126
Our species has built itself with a pretty stable climate. We haven't experience different outside of some every so often events like the little ice age. But a drastic climatic change can do lots of damage from rising sea levels, to ruining farm land (i.e. too hot/cold, wet/dry, etc), to acidification of the oceans causing a collapse of the ecosystem there. Any of those would have a drastic impact on our species, and data shows all are possible and have happened before.

That sounds extremely alarmist.

I'm all for reducing CO2 emissions, but to say that a few degrees change will collapse our ecosystem is stretching your argument way too thin.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Gravity: a theory you can measure the effects of on a bathroom scale.
Global climate change: What you need a super computer, ten thousand data readings run through forty different programs and still get wrong 'cause you forgot to include the flutter of a butterfly's wings in Brazil.
 

Ventanni

Golden Member
Jul 25, 2011
1,432
142
106
Honestly, I think we need to stop looking at global climate change as a cost and start looking at it from the perspective of opportunity.

Opportunity - The study of global climate change has increased our knowledge of weather and climate abroad. We may not have it down "pat" just yet, but eventually we'll get there.

Opportunity - The study of global climate change requires massive data computation, which indirectly, further funds our gaming habits (wut wut!!). This isn't definitely a positive! Massive supercomputers are also used for other scientific research, as just like the Hubble Space Telescope, researchers bid for time usage on these machines; supercomputers are only cost effective if they're constantly being used.

Opportunity - Because of the proposed climate changes, architects have started to consider using other materials besides steel and concrete. This is a really interesting Ted documentary about an architect proposing to build skyscrapers out of wood. I think you might all enjoy it:

http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_green_why_we_should_build_wooden_skyscrapers.html

So the overall opportunity here is that the climate change "problem" presents opportunities in terms of scientific research and our advancement of engineering.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |