Navy launches new stealth destroyer: Longer than a Battleship! (pic)

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Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,149
57
91

Neither of those are one of them, though.

Billy Mitchell wouldn't have sunk that German Battleship if it had a crew for damage control and had been moving and shooting back.

Hood was a Battle Cruiser and had no business facing Bismarck. Battle Cruisers were supposed to be scouts and cruiser killers, but because they were big and had Battleship-sized guns, the admirals couldn't help but put them in the battle line.

Bismarck was a decent Battleship, but nowhere near what the legend is. Certainly no super ship. She sunk a famous, OLD Battle Cruiser that shouldn't have been there anyway. Had Prince of Wales been a fully-worked up ship that was ready to go, Bismarck would have been severely damaged in that first battle, if not sunk.
 

dennilfloss

Past Lifer 1957-2014 In Memoriam
Oct 21, 1999
30,549
12
0
dennilfloss.blogspot.com
Everyone knows this. :sneaky:

I think Hood was scheduled for a refit on the armor, supposedly a big upgrade.

Bismarck was a bit lucky in that regard, Hood was too old and Prince of Wales was too noob. I dunno if Hoods upgrades would have allowed her to survive the same hit. Of everyone here though, I think I know who the biggest nerd is - what say ye Dennilfloss?


Some extra armour was added to Hood in the 1930s but this made her low in the water and her side belt was almost immersed because she was overweight. She was also very wet up front after this. I still think what detonated her was the torpedoes above deck, fully exposed. Major liability.

Bismarck could have been sunk by a more mature PoW. The 14" shells of King George V battleships had no problem penetrating the German armour that was on Bismarck & Tirpitz at quite wide angles.

As for Jutland, the battlecruisers there were sunk by other battlescruisers, not by battleships. German BCs were much better protected (at the expense of a couple of knots less speed) but the main thing that helped them is their cordite was more stable and less prone to flash due to a different solvent IIRC.
 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,854
154
106
To the poster suggestng continual upgrades to iowa battleship class. A ship designed and built in WW2 is now 70 years old. How much stress and age can a hull take? Even supertankers and comparable cargo ships are retired after a few decades at most. The stresses of the ocean on a hull are tremendous and the ship becomes unsafe to sail after so many years on high seas.

Also, the Iowas were the very last of the steam powered sailing ships. Nowadays everything is gas turbine. When they reactivated those ships in the 80s, they had to convince quite few guys to come out of retirement to train the new support staff and sailors to run/repair these systems.

I'm a battleship fan myself but eventually these ships just have to quit at some point.
 

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,149
57
91
To the poster suggestng continual upgrades to iowa battleship class. A ship designed and built in WW2 is now 70 years old. How much stress and age can a hull take? Even supertankers and comparable cargo ships are retired after a few decades at most. The stresses of the ocean on a hull are tremendous and the ship becomes unsafe to sail after so many years on high seas.

Also, the Iowas were the very last of the steam powered sailing ships. Nowadays everything is gas turbine. When they reactivated those ships in the 80s, they had to convince quite few guys to come out of retirement to train the new support staff and sailors to run/repair these systems.

I'm a battleship fan myself but eventually these ships just have to quit at some point.
The ship is old, but they have been sitting idle most of that time. That is quite different than sailing the seas. They are in fantastic shape, mechanically.

As far as the ship's engines go, there are plenty of people around that know how to operate them. That's no problem at all. In fact, Navy ships with identical powerplants were only retired in about 2004 or so...the Sacremento class fast combat support ships were built (and used for 40 years, btw) used powerplants from the unfinished Iowa class BB's Kentucky and Illinois. So those engines were at sea within the last decade. Also, the carrier Kitty Hawk was just decommissioned in 2009, also steam powered. The knowledge base is still there, for sure.

But again, I wasn't advocating for the Iowas' return now, just questioning the NEED for such ships as the Zumwalt....and if there was truly a need for them, why have we gone over 20 years with NOTHING that could even come close to what an Iowa could do in 1991, much less what one that had been gradually upgraded over time could do by now.

They are gross wastes of money, IMO.
 

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,149
57
91
Some extra armour was added to Hood in the 1930s but this made her low in the water and her side belt was almost immersed because she was overweight. She was also very wet up front after this. I still think what detonated her was the torpedoes above deck, fully exposed. Major liability.

Hood was referred to as the "largest submarine in the Royal Navy".

Watch this video, and you'll see why. VERY wet ship. You can see some other big ships in that video, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAthCvk5Gro
And yes, she was scheduled for a rebuild that she never got, which likely would have prevented her destruction. Had she gotten closer where Bismarck's fire wasn't hitting the deck armor, her side armor was just fine, then it'd be a slug fest.

Bismarck had a glaring weakness....turret armor. Her turrets could be penetrated by any Battleship gun afloat back then, at any range. Rodney silenced her in about 15 minutes. And yes, Bismarck was sinking, but slowly. Leave her alone, and she'd have sunk regardless of scuttling or torpedoes. It's irrelevant, she was a useless hulk by that point anyway.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,429
11,758
136
Anyone see the story about the captain of this ship?

http://news.yahoo.com/captain-kirk-navy-destroyer-135551630.html

Captain Kirk to command new Navy destroyer


By Dylan Stableford, Yahoo News

The commander of the U.S. Navy's sleek new guided-missile destroyer, which launched late last week in Maine, has a name to match its space-age look: Captain Kirk.

Captain James Kirk, the prospective commanding officer of USS Zumwalt, will lead the 610-foot vessel, the Navy's largest destroyer and first of three new Zumwalt-class ships "designed for littoral operations and land attack," the Navy said.

Second star to the right and straight on till morning.
 

tynopik

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2004
5,245
500
126
But again, I wasn't advocating for the Iowas' return now, just questioning the NEED for such ships as the Zumwalt....and if there was truly a need for them, why have we gone over 20 years with NOTHING that could even come close to what an Iowa could do in 1991, much less what one that had been gradually upgraded over time could do by now.

They are gross wastes of money, IMO.

Again, the money wasn't just for the Zumwalts per se, it was for developing the next-gen technologies that will be used in all ships going forward.

However, even if it was all 'worthless', just pretend it's a jobs program and payoff to the unions and you should be all happy, right?
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
124
106
Number of anti-ship missiles to sink one = 1.

Maybe the enemy will be more generous and fire more of them, like they won't.
 

dawheat

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
3,132
93
91
I do not think we need to have the size of Navy we have had for the past 50 years. Fleet engagements are OVER. What engagements have we had since WWII required anything more than a carrier and supporting vessels (and the support is just to make the carrier feel more secure).

Actually I think the Navy is one of the better ways to project US power globally as they're inherently mobile. Hot spot flaring up? Get a carrier battle group over there. Need to do some covert surveillance? Get a sub over there.

Personally I think parts of the Air Force and Army budgets are more of a waste as they're immobile and take a ton of infrastructure to relocate overseas. Do we need thousands of tanks in this era?
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,215
15,787
126
Actually I think the Navy is one of the better ways to project US power globally as they're inherently mobile. Hot spot flaring up? Get a carrier battle group over there. Need to do some covert surveillance? Get a sub over there.

Personally I think parts of the Air Force and Army budgets are more of a waste as they're immobile and take a ton of infrastructure to relocate overseas. Do we need thousands of tanks in this era?

Navy and Air Force win battles. Army wins wars
 

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,774
919
126
Actually I think the Navy is one of the better ways to project US power globally as they're inherently mobile. Hot spot flaring up? Get a carrier battle group over there. Need to do some covert surveillance? Get a sub over there.

Personally I think parts of the Air Force and Army budgets are more of a waste as they're immobile and take a ton of infrastructure to relocate overseas. Do we need thousands of tanks in this era?

Trouble is with something like tanks, if you need them it's a long lead time. Same thing with ships, you can't wait for trouble to start to start building them. Also having a large reserves means war might be less likely as our opponents won't underestimate us.
 

Possessed Freak

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 1999
6,045
1
0
here's a picture of Rear Admiral Possessed Freak commissioning his latest acquisition:


Sadly the site is down. I am sure it was a very appropriate picture.

But again, I ask: Name ONE single incident where it required more warships than a carrier to respond in the last 50 years. Any country, any military naval incident.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,884
34,847
136
But again, I ask: Name ONE single incident where it required more warships than a carrier to respond in the last 50 years. Any country, any military naval incident.

A CSG, not just a carrier. Since it would be wildly expensive and impractical to send a CSG everywhere you might need or want to have capability, destroyers and cruisers are good investments (not saying the Zumwalt itself was a good use of money). If the US wanted to step back from it's security obligations then the navy could be drawn down a lot but that's a policy decision.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Korea, vietnam, falklands, iraq, iraq, afghanistan, libya, lebanon without actually thinking about it.
 

Possessed Freak

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 1999
6,045
1
0
Korea, vietnam, falklands, iraq, iraq, afghanistan, libya, lebanon without actually thinking about it.

Without thinking about what? The complete lack of naval engagements that require surface warships?

Transports and the ability to cover said transports from enemy forces (which the carriers can do with ease) is what was needed for most of these. It is the idea of securing the carriers that the surface group is formed. So which of the enemy forces actually could threaten a carrier that was unescorted? Name one single battle in the past 50 years between ANY nation where any warship of any significant size (capital ship people, not the little torpedo boats that constitute a "flotilla") was at risk of sinking.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
But our naïve little friend of worldy matters didn't state a carrier group, much less the amphib group that would travel with it. He thinks a single carrier is all that is needed. Ignoring common sense or the fact that with the US currently down 1 carrier that op tempo and strategic plans have already had to be revised.
 

tynopik

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2004
5,245
500
126
Name one single battle in the past 50 years between ANY nation where any warship of any significant size (capital ship people, not the little torpedo boats that constitute a "flotilla") was at risk of sinking.

Falklands
- Light cruiser ARA General Belgrano
- Submarine ARA Santa Fe
- Destroyer HMS Sheffield
- Destroyer HMS Coventry
- Frigate HMS Ardent
- Frigate HMS Antelope
- Container ship (used as helicopter base) MV Atlantic Conveyor
- LCU Sir Galahad
- LCU Sir Tristram

Six Day War - Destroyer INS Eilat


Gulf War 'Silkworm Incident'


Iran-Iraq War
- USS Stark
- USS Samuel B. Roberts
- Operation Praying Mantis


Corvette ROKS Cheonan
 
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