zeroHow many times did Jordan take inferior teams all the way to rings again? (I'm a Knick fan ... no reminders needed!)
Well he did lead his team to beating the 73-9 Warriors so not sure the Knicks or the Pistons after Aguirre's honeymoon period ended would be some kind of unprecedented challenge for James.I'd like to see how well LeBum would have done against those same Knicks or maybe the "Bad-Boy" pistons .... my bet he would have walked off the court in tears. And any of the Champion Bulls would have killed all his teams IMO.
I'm playing with house money hereCame into this thread to post about game 7 of Heat vs. Celtics and instead had to read through a raft of shit from LBJ haters. Now I don't even want to post my thoughts any further.
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I'm playing with house money here
Gotta disagree here. Jerry Krause built a pretty strong team around Jordan. Got the draft rights to Charles Oakley for a future pick in 85. In 87 he somehow conned the Sonics into giving him the rights to Pippen in exchange for the #8 pick (Olden Polynice) and then followed that up by getting a high end PF in Horace Grant a few picks later. Then when it became clear Horace Grant was going to be a really strong PF he flipped Oakley to NY for the center he needed in Cartwright, who I think gets pretty underrated for having to take a backseat to Jordan, Pippen, and Grant on offense. Throw in a PG with three point range in Paxson and that was a fierce starting lineup, plus they had quality reserves with guys like Will Perdue, BJ Armstrong, and Craig Hodges. And I still remember Bobby Hansen coming in and crucifying the Blazers in 92 Finals. Krause screwed the pooch on the Brad Sellers and Stacey King picks but overall I think his record was really good in putting a quality lineup around Jordan.Based on the results it's tough to argue and the later "Rodman" Bulls were one of the best NBA teams ever ... but those early winning Bulls teams were a motley crew on paper if there ever was one!
I died laughing watching the fans rush the floor in The Great Western Forum when the Bulls beat the Lakers in LA for that 91 title. God that had to be embarrassing to LA.Seriously? A strong LBJ team (i.e. 2013 or 2016) wouldn't beat the Ewing Knicks?
1990-91 Chicago Bulls Roster and Stats | Basketball-Reference.com
Checkout the latest Chicago Bulls Roster and Stats for 1990-91 on Basketball-Reference.comwww.basketball-reference.com
"Motley crew" huh? They only went 15-2 in the playoffs and easily dethroned late 1980s champs Pistons and Lakers.
Peak MJ
Pippen
Ho Grant
good roles players such as Cartwright and Paxson, etc.
Can't wait for more classic takes. This thread delivers.
I feel like we got robbed as basketball fans by Ewing's knee injuries. He was a nasty defensive force early in his career and it was kind of sad seeing him have to move to shooting jumpers all the time and becoming a lumbering big man by the early 90s thanks to those knees when he was such a dynamic athlete early on. He still carved out a hell of a career but everyone forgets just how ridiculous Ewing was his first few years in the league. Also I'm still mad they traded Mark Jackson, and for freaking get blocked four times at the rim Charles Smith. They were so close to that 94 title and would have gotten to the finish line with Jackson running the ship. Then again it's the same NYK front office that traded a young Rod Strickland to the Spurs for the corpse of Maurice Cheeks' career.Yep .... Nobody really saw NC beating favorite Georgetown coming either. (I won money lol) Looking back at the players on that NC team the words "greatest college team of all-time" come to mind and G-town minus Ewing wasn't all that great.
As a reminder .... where was Tom Brady drafted again?
I'd like to see how well LeBum would have done against those same Knicks or maybe the "Bad-Boy" pistons .... my bet he would have walked off the court in tears. And any of the Champion Bulls would have killed all his teams IMO.
Well, if I was worth over a billion dollars, yeah, I'd play for the veteran minimum and not suck the team dry of their salary cap by being one of the highest players of the league. But that's just me. I mean he has his future set in "his name", "his image", endorsements and the various other advertising, marketing and acting revenues of cash.Do you take a paycut for your company? LeBron has been massively underpaid for 20 years.
Meh opinions were idiotic back then tbh. I remember the majority opinion was that Jordan was a ballhog streetballer who only cared about looking good dunking the ball and that he didn't have the class that real franchise players like Magic and Bird who played winning basketball did.Again, looking back at history we KNOW that those Bulls teams were terrific and deserved to win.... back when it was happening however opinions were decidedly mixed.
LOL, ball stealer. Know how many times MJ lead the league in steals? (FYI - he is 4th all time, but you also fail to mention he played 4 years in college and didn't have all those extra years and less wear-and-tear than Lebron". How many all-defensive teams? How many Defensive players of the year? Compare those to Jordan.Meh opinions were idiotic back then tbh. I remember the majority opinion was that Jordan was a ballhog streetballer who only cared about looking good dunking the ball and that he didn't have the class that real franchise players like Magic and Bird who played winning basketball did.
I grew up a big fan of Showtime, but I don't recall any heartbreak to MJ's coronation in 1991. Obviously somewhat disappointing but it wasn't that big of a deal to me personally. A) The 80s were really competitive so even a dynasty like the Lakers losing was rather common B) The Bulls destroyed us and anytime that happens, you're more numb to the outcome. I wasn't an MJ fan then, but since the Lakers had not won since 1988, this just wasn't a shocker.I died laughing watching the fans rush the floor in The Great Western Forum when the Bulls beat the Lakers in LA for that 91 title. God that had to be embarrassing to LA.
I stopped "attacking" you in the NFL thread because you got all butt hurt and personal about it, but your greatest hits of bad sports takes never ceases to amaze.Again, looking back at history we KNOW that those Bulls teams were terrific and deserved to win.... back when it was happening however opinions were decidedly mixed.
That's a terrible take. How is James bringing teams to the NBA finals again and again somehow used as an argument against him? If he'd lost in the conference finals, that would be better? He would be considered a better player?I don't think we need to bring up the embarrassing NBA finals record, do we? You can go there a thousand time (even win one in a bubble during an epidemic with missing players), but 100% is always going to win.
TIL Kobe Bryant was drafted in 2003. Fuck this thread got hijacked by some clowns.James was drafted in 2003. Won his first championship in 2012 = 9 years
Jordan was drafted in 1984. Won his first championship in 1991 = 7 years
I don't think we need to bring up the embarrassing NBA finals record, do we? You can go there a thousand time (even win one in a bubble during an epidemic with missing players), but 100% is always going to win.
To be ultra crude. Kobe was drafted the same year and has 5 championships and retired before LeBron.
I don't get the Finals record complaint. Is it better to lose early than lose in the Finals? Were the 07 Cavs starting Sasha Pavlovic, Boobie Gibson, and Drew Gooden supposed to beat the Duncan / Ginobili / Paker Spurs? Were the 15 Cavs supposed to beat the 15 Warriors with Irving and Love out and Timofey Mozgov or Matthew Dellavedova his best remaining teammate? Were the 17 Cavs supposed to beat the greatest team in NBA history? Durant / Curry / Klay is about the craziest cheat code we have ever seen. Same with the 18 Cavs. We already went over how Mickey Arison screwed LeBron in 14 by amenstying Mike Miller who was desperately needed for spacing the floor in the 14 Finals. But the 14 Spurs he lost to were another all time great team. The only bad Finals loss he ever had was 2011 when he crapped the bed vs Dallas. Don't see how that being in the Finals makes it any worse than Jordan doing the same vs Orlando in 95 though. Also LOL comparing Jordan's early career situation to LeBron's. Yes give me losing Carlos Boozer after trying to lowball him and bringing in over the hill vets like Ben Wallace and Shaq and crappy scrubs like Anthony Parker and JJ Hickson over Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, and Charles Oakley / Bill Cartwright. Is Mo Williams in the HOF like Pippen, a long forward with PG skills who was also the greatest perimeter defender this league has ever seen?James was drafted in 2003. Won his first championship in 2012 = 9 years
Jordan was drafted in 1984. Won his first championship in 1991 = 7 years
I don't think we need to bring up the embarrassing NBA finals record, do we? You can go there a thousand time (even win one in a bubble during an epidemic with missing players), but 100% is always going to win.
Speaking of Showtime, I think I might have gotten in Jeff Pearlman's book as the kid Kareem refused to sign an autograph for at the airport in like 1988. It reads worse than what actually happened though, as Kareem still took a photo with his arm around me. Just seemed like he was tired and maybe a little shy like he didn't enjoy being famous for putting a basketball through a hoop. Plus I can't imagine he liked San Antonio much after the Baseline Bums brought warped burned records to to the game to make fun of Kareem's house burning down and him losing his prized jazz record collection. Ended up talking to Magic for like 15 minutes when they were waiting for their flight out of San Antonio and told him I always rooted for the Lakers over the Celtics when the Finals came around and said I saw him hit a half court shot on CBS the week before. That man loves his fans.I grew up a big fan of Showtime, but I don't recall any heartbreak to MJ's coronation in 1991. Obviously somewhat disappointing but it wasn't that big of a deal to me personally. A) The 80s were really competitive so even a dynasty like the Lakers losing was rather common B) The Bulls destroyed us and anytime that happens, you're more numb to the outcome. I wasn't an MJ fan then, but since the Lakers had not won since 1988, this just wasn't a shocker.
Lol this thread at times. Interesting, just not in a good way.
"But the 14 Spurs he lost to were another all time great team."I don't get the Finals record complaint. Is it better to lose early than lose in the Finals? Were the 07 Cavs starting Sasha Pavlovic, Boobie Gibson, and Drew Gooden supposed to beat the Duncan / Ginobili / Paker Spurs? Were the 15 Cavs supposed to beat the 15 Warriors with Irving and Love out and Timofey Mozgov or Matthew Dellavedova his best remaining teammate? Were the 17 Cavs supposed to beat the greatest team in NBA history? Durant / Curry / Klay is about the craziest cheat code we have ever seen. Same with the 18 Cavs. We already went over how Mickey Arison screwed LeBron in 14 by amenstying Mike Miller who was desperately needed for spacing the floor in the 14 Finals. But the 14 Spurs he lost to were another all time great team. The only bad Finals loss he ever had was 2011 when he crapped the bed vs Dallas. Don't see how that being in the Finals makes it any worse than Jordan doing the same vs Orlando in 95 though. Also LOL comparing Jordan's early career situation to LeBron's. Yes give me losing Carlos Boozer after trying to lowball him and bringing in over the hill vets like Ben Wallace and Shaq and crappy scrubs like Anthony Parker and JJ Hickson over Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, and Charles Oakley / Bill Cartwright. Is Mo Williams in the HOF like Pippen, a long forward with PG skills who was also the greatest perimeter defender this league has ever seen?
LOL low information Jordanstan"But the 14 Spurs he lost to were another all time great team."
Yet, Jordan kept at least 4 HOF players from winning a title (Barkley, Stockton, Drexler, Malone) A few that were considered some of the all-time 50 best players. Beat the Lakers with Magic, too. Plus, if you want to go back, has the highest scoring playoff game in NBA history. Against a team with Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Bill Walton and Dennis Johnson - ALL Hall of Famers. Crazy cheat code!
Comparing Jordan in 1995, who played baseball all yea, lol. Take LBJ's cock out of your mouth and actually some of the 90's BB. It's a totally different game, way more physical, and without the auto-foul system today. You just don't know.