NBA 2022-23 Season

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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,364
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For many years, LBJ actually wasn't the highest paid player in the NBA. He regularly took small discounts to maintain his ability to control his own destiny. Part of this is tied to how crazy Cavs owner Dan Gilbert was when LBJ left in 2010. So when he went back to Cleveland, he regularly played under a 1 year deal (with player option). To be honest, he probably knew he'd end up in L.A. at some point due to his entertainment interests.

There is really no precedent in the 21st Century of an All NBA caliber player playing for peanuts just to win. If I think hard enough, maybe Tim Duncan was low paid towards the end of his career but he wasn't an elite player at that point either. Obviously pro athletes have huge egos, and the list of guys who did what you suggest begins and ends with Tom Brady. Hypothetically if LBJ signed a contract anywhere close to the veteran's minimum to bring on another superstar, there would be allegations of bad faith and collusion. (Recall his move to Miami in 2010.) Only aging veterans without a championship will play for the minimum to "chase a ring," and it is within their rights to do so.

Also, salary cap math comes into play. LBJ is not a free agent now, but assume that he is. Even if he signed a minimum deal, the Lakers are still splashing money on free agents Austin Reaves and Rui Hachimura. So then they could go out and get a guy in free agency, but not a maximum salary guy like Kyrie Irving unless they found somewhere else to shed some salary. The players union would not be happy if LBJ played for $2M and also convinced Kyrie to play for $20M.

I have a personal theory on why LBJ signed a 4 year max deal with the Lakers a few years ago. You may say $44M (pre tax) isn't that much compared to his off court earnings and business empire. But I believe LBJ already has a gentlemen's agreement with Adam Silver that he gets first shot at owning the future expansion team in Las Vegas. Unfortunately for LBJ, the cost of the team is going to be in the vicinity of $4B. If he wants to be managing owner (aka Governor), he needs to own approx 1/3 of the team. LBJ is rich, but he's not that rich yet. So he needs all the money he can earn now, and he's going to have deep-pocketed investors in his bid.

As for LBJ the player, the WCF could have been more interesting if Darvin Ham had started Rui from game 2. He wasted a lot of minutes on D'Angelo Russell and Vanderbilt, and made the roster moves too late to matter. LBJ showed in game 4 he can still bring it, but due to fatigue, he stopped attacking in the second half. If they didn't ask him to guard Jokic (which he did well), and insisted he attacks the rim all game, it might have been a different series. It doesn't take a genius to know playing LBJ 48 minutes is not a smart move. The reason Ham had to stick Rui or LBJ on Jokic is because although AD is a very good defender, he doesn't relish guarding bigger men.

I'm not taking anything away from the Nuggets because I knew they were superior and am pulling for them to win their first title. But several of those games were decided in crunch time, so a few key adjustments could have made a difference.
 
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Mark

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,486
3
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I post a question. So, we all known LeBron James is probably in his last year or two. I mean he's 38yrs old and this playoff really proved that he just isn't at the peak of his game anymore. He's still a beast and a premiere player, but he can't do it for 40+ minutes and take over games like he used to. At least constantly...

He makes $100Ms dollars a year, even without his basketball payday. He's worth over a billion too!

The question is, why the hell does he straddle his team with such a huge salary, that he doesn't need, that he could take the league minimum and bring in some decent players to finish off his career?? What the heck does another $44M do for him? Make the $200k and move on!

I know the answer is ego, but it's still really weird that he would demand so much, along with AD, and basically cripple his team. Hell, have fun and get a couple of great 20-25M+ players or someone huge at his old salary? Not saying it would work, but they could get KD to go along with the rest of the team, him and AD, and still be in the same cap space! Of course, we never know how it would work, but it's better than watching an almost middle-aged man try to convivence the world he's still the best.

Hell, think about if they got Playoff Jimmy? So many options they could go after for that kind of money, but only if he set aside pride, ego and greed.


Because winning for him is not as high of a priority as he tries to make everyone believe. He already has 4 rings on 3 different teams. He's not turning down another 40 million for a 'chance' to win another ring. Hypothetically if he was guaranteed a ring by signing for a vet minimum, I'm guessing he would but if he signed a vet minimum and didn't win a ring thats the equivalent of flushing 40 million down the drain.
 

MinervaLaw

Member
May 21, 2023
25
3
16
For many years, LBJ actually wasn't the highest paid player in the NBA. He regularly took small discounts to maintain his ability to control his own destiny. Part of this is tied to how crazy Cavs owner Dan Gilbert was when LBJ left in 2010. So when he went back to Cleveland, he regularly played under a 1 year deal (with player option). To be honest, he probably knew he'd end up in L.A. at some point due to his entertainment interests.

There is really no precedent in the 21st Century of an All NBA caliber player playing for peanuts just to win. If I think hard enough, maybe Tim Duncan was low paid towards the end of his career but he wasn't an elite player at that point either. Obviously pro athletes have huge egos, and the list of guys who did what you suggest begins and ends with Tom Brady. Hypothetically if LBJ signed a contract anywhere close to the veteran's minimum to bring on another superstar, there would be allegations of bad faith and collusion. (Recall his move to Miami in 2010.) Only aging veterans without a championship will play for the minimum to "chase a ring," and it is within their rights to do so.

Also, salary cap math comes into play. LBJ is not a free agent now, but assume that he is. Even if he signed a minimum deal, the Lakers are still splashing money on free agents Austin Reaves and Rui Hachimura. So then they could go out and get a guy in free agency, but not a maximum salary guy like Kyrie Irving unless they found somewhere else to shed some salary. The players union would not be happy if LBJ played for $2M and also convinced Kyrie to play for $20M.

I have a personal theory on why LBJ signed a 4 year max deal with the Lakers a few years ago. You may say $44M (pre tax) isn't that much compared to his off court earnings and business empire. But I believe LBJ already has a gentlemen's agreement with Adam Silver that he gets first shot at owning the future expansion team in Las Vegas. Unfortunately for LBJ, the cost of the team is going to be in the vicinity of $4B. If he wants to be managing owner (aka Governor), he needs to own approx 1/3 of the team. LBJ is rich, but he's not that rich yet. So he needs all the money he can earn now, and he's going to have deep-pocketed investors in his bid.

As for LBJ the player, the WCF could have been more interesting if Darvin Ham had started Rui from game 2. He wasted a lot of minutes on D'Angelo Russell and Vanderbilt, and made the roster moves too late to matter. LBJ showed in game 4 he can still bring it, but due to fatigue, he stopped attacking in the second half. If they didn't ask him to guard Jokic (which he did well), and insisted he attacks the rim all game, it might have been a different series. It doesn't take a genius to know playing LBJ 48 minutes is not a smart move. The reason Ham had to stick Rui or LBJ on Jokic is because although AD is a very good defender, he doesn't relish guarding bigger men.

I'm not taking anything away from the Nuggets because I knew they were superior and am pulling for them to win their first title. But several of those games were decided in crunch time, so a few key adjustments could have made a difference.
The flip side, LEbran never needed to be the highest paid player because he was winning and making enough to be a billionaire. We really don't know. Plus, the whole signing of Reaves and Hachimura is totally unrelated if he still makes $44M a year. If he's not going to take a pay cut, are you suggesting they won't be signed? Of course not. If he took a pay cut to sign a high caliber player for him and AD, you think the two players they are most likely already going to pay, will change anything? It's flawed logic.

No clue if he has anything in light with Adam Silver and I'm not going to guess on that. Haven't heard much about it and I'm pretty sure him making NBA salary for 2 more years wouldn't stop him from being a major/minority owner. Silver, or any commissioner would assist a team help him gain an ownership role because of the brand name and fans he would bring. He could also borrow that money easily on his Nike and other deals already in place.

Interesting thought. Jokic only makes $1M less than AD and $5M less than LBK. Not the right fight, but I still think JBL taking a pay dump could get them a massive player and they are going to still have the money to pay the other two. Unless you are suggesting they already have no chance to sign those guys and wont?
 

MinervaLaw

Member
May 21, 2023
25
3
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ell W



Because winning for him is not as high of a priority as he tries to make everyone believe. He already has 4 rings on 3 different teams. He's not turning down another 40 million for a 'chance' to win another ring. Hypothetically if he was guaranteed a ring by signing for a vet minimum, I'm guessing he would but if he signed a vet minimum and didn't win a ring thats the equivalent of flushing 40 million down the drain.
I guess. But, in the long term, is $40M really that much when you are a billionaire, and that money isn't going to stop any time soon? Does he want to be the best, or so rich that it doesn't really matter? Kind of odd. The question is already answered though, he's not the Goat and I think the knows that. Top 5, sure, but it is what it is.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,126
5,998
136
I post a question. So, we all known LeBron James is probably in his last year or two. I mean he's 38yrs old and this playoff really proved that he just isn't at the peak of his game anymore. He's still a beast and a premiere player, but he can't do it for 40+ minutes and take over games like he used to. At least constantly...

He makes $100Ms dollars a year, even without his basketball payday. He's worth over a billion too!

The question is, why the hell does he straddle his team with such a huge salary, that he doesn't need, that he could take the league minimum and bring in some decent players to finish off his career?? What the heck does another $44M do for him? Make the $200k and move on!

I know the answer is ego, but it's still really weird that he would demand so much, along with AD, and basically cripple his team. Hell, have fun and get a couple of great 20-25M+ players or someone huge at his old salary? Not saying it would work, but they could get KD to go along with the rest of the team, him and AD, and still be in the same cap space! Of course, we never know how it would work, but it's better than watching an almost middle-aged man try to convivence the world he's still the best.

Hell, think about if they got Playoff Jimmy? So many options they could go after for that kind of money, but only if he set aside pride, ego and greed.
Do you take a paycut for your company? LeBron has been massively underpaid for 20 years. Back in 1997-98 Jordan made $33.1 million back when the team salary cap was $26.9 million, which would be like a player making $151 million salary for the 2022-23 season. Hell, probably worse considering the players make a lower percentage of the league's income than they did in 1997-98. LeBron's salary has been kept artificially low his entire career by both the max salary adopted by the NBA in 1999, as well as the fixed rookie scale contracts that hugely suppressed his salary to the $4 million to $6 million range his first four years in the league. In 2009 when he dragged a horrific Cavs roster to 66 wins, something I think no one else in NBA history could have done, he was only paid $14.4 million and made less than his teammate, washed up Ben Wallace. If you think he's overpaid at $44 million this season it doesn't even come close to balancing out how underpaid he was the first 18 years or so of his career. I think he was worth every penny of his $41 million salary from 2021-22.
 
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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,364
2,373
136
The flip side, LEbran never needed to be the highest paid player because he was winning and making enough to be a billionaire. We really don't know. Plus, the whole signing of Reaves and Hachimura is totally unrelated if he still makes $44M a year. If he's not going to take a pay cut, are you suggesting they won't be signed? Of course not. If he took a pay cut to sign a high caliber player for him and AD, you think the two players they are most likely already going to pay, will change anything? It's flawed logic.

No clue if he has anything in light with Adam Silver and I'm not going to guess on that. Haven't heard much about it and I'm pretty sure him making NBA salary for 2 more years wouldn't stop him from being a major/minority owner. Silver, or any commissioner would assist a team help him gain an ownership role because of the brand name and fans he would bring. He could also borrow that money easily on his Nike and other deals already in place.

Interesting thought. Jokic only makes $1M less than AD and $5M less than LBK. Not the right fight, but I still think JBL taking a pay dump could get them a massive player and they are going to still have the money to pay the other two. Unless you are suggesting they already have no chance to sign those guys and wont?
You don't understand how the NBA salary cap works.

When Steph Curry asked GM Bob Myers if he should sign a less than max deal, Myers told him it wouldn't matter except put some money into the owners' pockets. Because the team was already well over the (soft) salary cap anyway.

I already explained that although it wouldn't be rule-breaking for LBJ to have signed a small money deal, it would have upset a lot of other people anyway. Besides, if you make this argument about LBJ, you could say the same thing for all NBA superstars. Why are Jokic, Embiid, Tatum, and a bunch of lesser stars all making max money? Shouldn't they make $2M to chase a ring instead, esp. the guys who don't already have one? How does anyone decide who plays for $2M, and who doesn't?

Finally, NBA contracts are fully guaranteed. You can ask this question if a player is a free agent up for a new contract, but LBJ can't reduce his salary next season even if he truly wanted to.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,126
5,998
136
Furthermore, LeBron actually did take a paycut in 2010 that no one ever gives him any credit for. He, Bosh, and Wade all took paycuts that year so the Heat would have money to sign Mike Miller because they desperately needed shooting around them. And how was he rewarded for it? The cheap ass owner Mickey Arison decided to use the amnesty provision on Miller after the 2013 season to save a few bucks on luxury tax. LeBron didn't take a paycut to put a few extra dollars in Mickey Arison's pocket, he did it because Miller was a crucial part of the team who played a significant part in the 2012 and 2013 titles and whose shooting was desperately missed in the 2014 Finals when the Spurs skullf***ed them while Mario Chalmers and Norris Cole couldn't buy a three. No one ever talks about it, but I think that's the reason LeBron left Miami in 2014, that he took a paycut to win titles there and instead the greedy owner pocketed that money in 2013. I'd have been mad as hell in LeBron's shoes.
 

Dr. Detroit

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2004
8,199
666
126
'Bron would not be making the endorsement money he does today if he retired so he has to play.

I have absolutely nothing nice to say about him as I believe he cares more about his "brand" than about the game. His longevity has been amazing but I've disliked him since before he entered the league. The Decision, the LeMao pandering to China, the social justice comments, the faux book reading & philosophy.

And now, he leaks he is considering "retirement" to fuel the media because he is not in the spotlight as Jokic & Jimmy are in the big show.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,931
5,803
126
'Bron would not be making the endorsement money he does today if he retired so he has to play.

I have absolutely nothing nice to say about him as I believe he cares more about his "brand" than about the game. His longevity has been amazing but I've disliked him since before he entered the league. The Decision, the LeMao pandering to China, the social justice comments, the faux book reading & philosophy.

And now, he leaks he is considering "retirement" to fuel the media because he is not in the spotlight as Jokic & Jimmy are in the big show.
He didn't leak anything. The media is the one who "leaked" that story line.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,126
5,998
136
'Bron would not be making the endorsement money he does today if he retired so he has to play.

I have absolutely nothing nice to say about him as I believe he cares more about his "brand" than about the game. His longevity has been amazing but I've disliked him since before he entered the league. The Decision, the LeMao pandering to China, the social justice comments, the faux book reading & philosophy.

And now, he leaks he is considering "retirement" to fuel the media because he is not in the spotlight as Jokic & Jimmy are in the big show.
It's amazing how much people hate on LeBron. Never has been in any trouble with the law, married his HS sweetheart and is a great father who even has one son he has helped develop into legit NBA talent, donated millions of dollars to build a school for disadvantaged kids from his hometown in Akron, but he doesn't shut up and dance like Laura Ingraham told him to and is just some street n**ger scaring good white folk to the average Republican voter. Makes me sick hearing one demographic who constantly trashes black men still finding ways to hate on this hardworking and decent man who has nothing in common with their stereotypes.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,997
20,236
136
It's amazing how much people hate on LeBron. Never has been in any trouble with the law, married his HS sweetheart and is a great father who even has one son he has helped develop into legit NBA talent, donated millions of dollars to build a school for disadvantaged kids from his hometown in Akron, but he doesn't shut up and dance like Laura Ingraham told him to and is just some street n**ger scaring good white folk to the average Republican voter. Makes me sick hearing one demographic who constantly trashes black men still finding ways to hate on this hardworking and decent man who has nothing in common with their stereotypes.

Pretty much. The guy is a flawed human being, he has made mistakes and should be criticized, but ultimately, if he never opened his mouth about social justice issues and pissed off a ton of white people, he'd get 90% less hate.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,364
2,373
136
It's amazing how much people hate on LeBron. Never has been in any trouble with the law, married his HS sweetheart and is a great father who even has one son he has helped develop into legit NBA talent, donated millions of dollars to build a school for disadvantaged kids from his hometown in Akron, but he doesn't shut up and dance like Laura Ingraham told him to and is just some street n**ger scaring good white folk to the average Republican voter. Makes me sick hearing one demographic who constantly trashes black men still finding ways to hate on this hardworking and decent man who has nothing in common with their stereotypes.
The best part is that poster has hated LBJ since he was just a hyped prospect in high school. That post tells us a lot about him, and it ain't pretty.
 

MinervaLaw

Member
May 21, 2023
25
3
16
'Bron would not be making the endorsement money he does today if he retired so he has to play.

I have absolutely nothing nice to say about him as I believe he cares more about his "brand" than about the game. His longevity has been amazing but I've disliked him since before he entered the league. The Decision, the LeMao pandering to China, the social justice comments, the faux book reading & philosophy.

And now, he leaks he is considering "retirement" to fuel the media because he is not in the spotlight as Jokic & Jimmy are in the big show.
Cause we all know that Air Jordan (Nike) makes over $4B a year and that MJ gets part of that royalty and made enough money to purchase the majority of an NBA. Now LeBron is looking to do the same. Sorry, but he will be making endorsement money the same as MJ because his demographic minimally overlaps Jordans and he will be considered a marketing magnet, just not on the scale of the Jordan Brand. Doesn't matter what he or his fans say, he is second rate to the Jordan brand and legacy, but there is still a ton of money to be made. Plus, you have to look at the fact we're comparing current salary/endorsements vs.20+ years ago!

At this point, of course he cares more than his brand! I think he knows he will never catch MJ in overall greatness. But, It's made him a billionaire. He really didn't "leak" that he was retiring, it's a ploy to keep people watching (expecting him to retire, see the last game!) until his son can enter the 2024 NBA draft and he figures out a way to play on the same team with him. Seems some people do not really keep up with the reality of the sport.
 

MinervaLaw

Member
May 21, 2023
25
3
16
It's amazing how much people hate on LeBron. Never has been in any trouble with the law, married his HS sweetheart and is a great father who even has one son he has helped develop into legit NBA talent, donated millions of dollars to build a school for disadvantaged kids from his hometown in Akron, but he doesn't shut up and dance like Laura Ingraham told him to and is just some street n**ger scaring good white folk to the average Republican voter. Makes me sick hearing one demographic who constantly trashes black men still finding ways to hate on this hardworking and decent man who has nothing in common with their stereotypes.
I get what you are saying. I think a lot of the hate is that he came out of high school being so hailed, called "the King". Jordan wasn't viewed that way and even dropped to 3rd in the draft. Not sure what Republicans and Democrats have anything to do with this though. It's really the perception. "The King" vs. a kid who didn't make his varsity team and worked his way back. The fact that Jordan had one of the single best years a player has ever had. He never lost a final. Honestly, he probably could have won 8 straight championships, had he not mourned the loss of his father and retired the first time.

What did James had to overcome? Plus, he has some seriously bad games vs. Jordan, who was pretty much consistently the greatest in high pressure games.

Not that James is bad, by any means, but real being real, Jordan just had "It". He controlled the game and losing was not in his vocabulary once he understood the game and learned to own it.

Also, Jordan played "only" 15 years. Yet he still owns more personal records than James. James came in as a teenager with 4 extra years (he has 20 total). Not even factoring in the fact that Jordan left in his prime to play baseball, lol. Lots of things are so overlooked.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,126
5,998
136
I get what you are saying. I think a lot of the hate is that he came out of high school being so hailed, called "the King". Jordan wasn't viewed that way and even dropped to 3rd in the draft. Not sure what Republicans and Democrats have anything to do with this though. It's really the perception. "The King" vs. a kid who didn't make his varsity team and worked his way back. The fact that Jordan had one of the single best years a player has ever had. He never lost a final. Honestly, he probably could have won 8 straight championships, had he not mourned the loss of his father and retired the first time.

What did James had to overcome? Plus, he has some seriously bad games vs. Jordan, who was pretty much consistently the greatest in high pressure games.

Not that James is bad, by any means, but real being real, Jordan just had "It". He controlled the game and losing was not in his vocabulary once he understood the game and learned to own it.

Also, Jordan played "only" 15 years. Yet he still owns more personal records than James. James came in as a teenager with 4 extra years (he has 20 total). Not even factoring in the fact that Jordan left in his prime to play baseball, lol. Lots of things are so overlooked.
So did Jordan take a paycut you think LeBron owes his teams? No, he took the equivalent of $150 million for his final season in Chicago. So what if he never lost a Finals? It's better to lose in an earlier round or sit home and duck Olajuwon's Rockets? He would have gotten his teeth kicked in by Durant / Curry / Thompson the same way LeBron did in 2017 and 2018. Losing was most certainly in Jordan's vocabulary when he took the Wizards to back to back lottery berths in the weakest conference the NBA has seen in the last 40 years. In 98 in Game 6 he got lucky Bavetta was looking out for the Bulls when he wiped away Howard Eisley's in time three, counted Ron Harper's too late runner, and let Jordan get away with an offensive foul pushing off Bryon Russell. I think Jordan's a slightly better overall player but he had plenty of faults too and he was lucky he never had to go through teams like the Warriors or Spurs that were loaded with talent that produced in big games. Yeah James crapped the bed against Dallas in 2011 but so did Jordan against Orlando in 1995.

But what does this comparison of MJ vs LeBron have to do with LeBron owing it to Jeannie Buss to take a paycut? LeBron got screwed by Mickey Arison the time he did take a paycut.
 

Dr. Detroit

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2004
8,199
666
126
Bleacher Report on Lebron -

"He'll suit up next year," one Western Conference executive said. "He just changed the conversation. Now we're not talking about a sweep; we're talking about LeBron and retirement. He loves to control the narrative."

No idea how this thread devolved into race relations and politics...
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136
LeBum is SO overrated lol. *(cue the clueless stat-counters and "compiler-fans" in 3... 2...1... )

How many times did Jordan take inferior teams all the way to rings again? (I'm a Knick fan ... no reminders needed!)

"Greatest of all-time" my a$$ .... this bunch of "Fakers" is a sad joke compared to Magic's "Showtime"..... the Nuggets handed LA their heads. (haha!)

 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136
I get what you are saying. I think a lot of the hate is that he came out of high school being so hailed, called "the King". Jordan wasn't viewed that way and even dropped to 3rd in the draft.

Yep .... Nobody really saw NC beating favorite Georgetown coming either. (I won money lol) Looking back at the players on that NC team the words "greatest college team of all-time" come to mind and G-town minus Ewing wasn't all that great.

As a reminder .... where was Tom Brady drafted again?

I'd like to see how well LeBum would have done against those same Knicks or maybe the "Bad-Boy" pistons .... my bet he would have walked off the court in tears. And any of the Champion Bulls would have killed all his teams IMO.
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,278
9,361
146
Came into this thread to post about game 7 of Heat vs. Celtics and instead had to read through a raft of shit from LBJ haters. Now I don't even want to post my thoughts any further.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,931
5,803
126
Came into this thread to post about game 7 of Heat vs. Celtics and instead had to read through a raft of shit from LBJ haters. Now I don't even want to post my thoughts any further.
The worst part is he's making all these theoretical arguments that could never have happened, while using a "cute" nickname for James.
 
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