NBA MVP.

[EKKC]

kobe or nash.
you cant deny the fact that kobe single handedly brought the lakers back into the playoff picture
nash is making the suns win the pacific division without amare. that's mightily impressive when they're in a conference with Clips, lakers and Kings (although the addition of Artest is responsible for this late surge, the first half season the kings just plain sucked), although i think they have to give some recognition to the new Suns lineup from last year's 60+win team into this year's Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas, Barbosa, Marion, and IMO, the Most Improved Player of the year... Guard/Center :Q Boris Diaw...

 

[Ophir]

Originally posted by: jjsole
I voted Lebron but probably kobe will get it.

Kobe singlehandedly is putting the lakers into the playoffs, while at the same time being virtually responsible for almost keeping Phil Jackson out of the playoffs for the first time. Almost 30 shots a game will destroy any team chemistry, if not simply deny it an opportunity to develop. Contrary to popular kobe fanboiz' belief, he doesn't play with a bunch of scrubs.

Huh? Name me one player other than Odom or maybe Devean George that you would want on your team. Please give the guy some credit, the Lakers are a team of scrubs.

For reference, the rest of the Laker Roster:

Kwame Brown
Smush Parker *
Brian Cook *
Chris Mihm *
Luke Walton *
Sasha Vujacic *
Devin Green #
Von Wafer #
Jim Jackson
Ronny Turiaf #
Andrew Bynum #

* - Averaging career highs in points
# - Rookies

And you can't deny that Kwame is playing much better than he ever has.

 

[The Batt?sai]

Originally posted by: DanTMWTMP
I pretty much agree w/ the ESPN Page2 article here:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060414


EDIT: I was at the game where he dropped 81. I saw it live!!! I could not believe it. I couldn't sleep that night, I couldn't eat, and I couldn't keep my mouth closed. I was in utter awe. It was an incredible display of extreme athletism, skill, determination, and the deathly will to win. Seeing things like this live is totally different. I downloaded a cap of the game and saw it through that. When you're at an NBA game live, the athletes move differently. The TV seems to slow them down. When looking a live game, you can see why some of these superstars are almost superhuman. The way they move their bodies to get a ball in a hole is nearly surreal and friggin incredible. Just because I saw it live, that's all the proof I need to say Kobe is this year's MVP. I'm still in shock of that event.

you should see the way i get a ball in the hole

 

[tfinch2]

There should be two MVP's. One from a team that is a contender (example: Billups or Wade), and one from a team where the player does what he wants because they are going to suck either way (example: Bryant or Pierce)

 

[Hammerhead]

All those games that Kobe put up alot of points in, he has little to none in the assists bracket.
What has kobe done to be of value to the team to deserve the MVP?

 

[Azndude2190]

Do any of you watch Laker games?

I dont blame Kobe for scoring 90% of the time for the Lakers when your teamates suck so bad. When he does pass to a teamate they normally miss the shot and most of the time thats out of a double team by the opposing team which makes a guy wide open.The Lakers are a better team when Kobe is in scoring mode than in passing mode.

 

[Azndude2190]

Originally posted by: Hammerhead
All those games that Kobe put up alot of points in, he has little to none in the assists bracket.
What has kobe done to be of value to the team to deserve the MVP?

The Lakers were a lottery team last year and now there about to clinch 7th seed in the West.If the Laron Profit and Mihm were healthy they probably could've won and extra 2-3 games

 

[swai]

Kobe or Lebron. they're the ones that mean the most to their teams. historically though, the MVP usually goes to someone on a good team, so the voters might have a tendency not to vote for Kobe since he's on a mediocre team

 

[Hammerhead]

Originally posted by: Azndude2190

Originally posted by: Hammerhead
All those games that Kobe put up alot of points in, he has little to none in the assists bracket.
What has kobe done to be of value to the team to deserve the MVP?

The Lakers were a lottery team last year and now there about to clinch 7th seed in the West.If the Laron Profit and Mihm were healthy they probably could've won and extra 2-3 games

difference from last year was the coach, not kobe. the team had kobe last year, but wasn't successful.

 

[Azndude2190]

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Azndude2190

Originally posted by: Hammerhead
All those games that Kobe put up alot of points in, he has little to none in the assists bracket.
What has kobe done to be of value to the team to deserve the MVP?

The Lakers were a lottery team last year and now there about to clinch 7th seed in the West.If the Laron Profit and Mihm were healthy they probably could've won and extra 2-3 games

difference from last year was the coach, not kobe. the team had kobe last year, but wasn't successful.

Um...Kobe's great performance(s) this year has made the Lakers sucessful.Phil is also a factor but the man earns his dues for what he has to put up with on a constant basis.

 

[Hammerhead]

Originally posted by: Azndude2190

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Azndude2190

Originally posted by: Hammerhead
All those games that Kobe put up alot of points in, he has little to none in the assists bracket.
What has kobe done to be of value to the team to deserve the MVP?

The Lakers were a lottery team last year and now there about to clinch 7th seed in the West.If the Laron Profit and Mihm were healthy they probably could've won and extra 2-3 games

difference from last year was the coach, not kobe. the team had kobe last year, but wasn't successful.

Um...Kobe's great performance(s) this year has made the Lakers sucessful.Phil is also a factor but the man earns his dues for what he has to put up with on a constant basis.

I dunno, to me an MVP makes their teamates play better. MJ did that. Kobe just doesn't do that. He realizes that he has sh1tty teamates and says f*ck it, I'll just do all the work. How is that being a team player.

 

[Azndude2190]

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Azndude2190

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Azndude2190

Originally posted by: Hammerhead
All those games that Kobe put up alot of points in, he has little to none in the assists bracket.
What has kobe done to be of value to the team to deserve the MVP?

The Lakers were a lottery team last year and now there about to clinch 7th seed in the West.If the Laron Profit and Mihm were healthy they probably could've won and extra 2-3 games

difference from last year was the coach, not kobe. the team had kobe last year, but wasn't successful.

Um...Kobe's great performance(s) this year has made the Lakers sucessful.Phil is also a factor but the man earns his dues for what he has to put up with on a constant basis.

I dunno, to me an MVP makes their teamates play better. MJ did that. Kobe just doesn't do that. He realizes that he has sh1tty teamates and says f*ck it, I'll just do all the work. How is that being a team player.

Most people dont realize that he actually tries to help his teamates...he's always looking to setup the guys in the right position in the triangle...but like I said none of these guys can hit a shot if their life depended on it.The passer can only do so much the rest is up to the individual shooting the ball.

 

[Ophir]

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
Um...Kobe's great performance(s) this year has made the Lakers sucessful.Phil is also a factor but the man earns his dues for what he has to put up with on a constant basis.

I dunno, to me an MVP makes their teamates play better. MJ did that. Kobe just doesn't do that. He realizes that he has sh1tty teamates and says f*ck it, I'll just do all the work. How is that being a team player.

Early in his career, Jordan did exactly what Kobe's been doing. Look at the numbers, they're nearly identical. Jordan became great when he accepted that it's a team sport and began trusting his teammates. It seems like Kobe is starting to learn that, too.

The problem with your argument is that you completely neglect Jordan's early struggles and only consider his prime. I would consider Kobe to be in his early struggles.

 

[Ophir]

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Azndude2190

Originally posted by: Hammerhead
All those games that Kobe put up alot of points in, he has little to none in the assists bracket.
What has kobe done to be of value to the team to deserve the MVP?

The Lakers were a lottery team last year and now there about to clinch 7th seed in the West.If the Laron Profit and Mihm were healthy they probably could've won and extra 2-3 games

difference from last year was the coach, not kobe. the team had kobe last year, but wasn't successful.

People seem to forget that the lakers were 32-29 last year and in the 6th spot in the west before they went 2-19 to finish the season. Phil has added stability and helped develop Odom and Brown, but the were successful without him. Much of the reason for the meltdown was Kobe's bum ankle.

 

[Hammerhead]

Originally posted by: Ophir

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
Um...Kobe's great performance(s) this year has made the Lakers sucessful.Phil is also a factor but the man earns his dues for what he has to put up with on a constant basis.

I dunno, to me an MVP makes their teamates play better. MJ did that. Kobe just doesn't do that. He realizes that he has sh1tty teamates and says f*ck it, I'll just do all the work. How is that being a team player.

Early in his career, Jordan did exactly what Kobe's been doing. Look at the numbers, they're nearly identical. Jordan became great when he accepted that it's a team sport and began trusting his teammates. It seems like Kobe is starting to learn that, too.

The problem with your argument is that you completely neglect Jordan's early struggles and only consider his prime. I would consider Kobe to be in his early struggles.

Early struggles? How long has kobe been in the league?

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Ophir

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
Um...Kobe's great performance(s) this year has made the Lakers sucessful.Phil is also a factor but the man earns his dues for what he has to put up with on a constant basis.

I dunno, to me an MVP makes their teamates play better. MJ did that. Kobe just doesn't do that. He realizes that he has sh1tty teamates and says f*ck it, I'll just do all the work. How is that being a team player.

Early in his career, Jordan did exactly what Kobe's been doing. Look at the numbers, they're nearly identical. Jordan became great when he accepted that it's a team sport and began trusting his teammates. It seems like Kobe is starting to learn that, too.

The problem with your argument is that you completely neglect Jordan's early struggles and only consider his prime. I would consider Kobe to be in his early struggles.

Early struggles? How long has kobe been in the league?

Hammerhead, there is no point in arguing with the Kobe lovers on this board. They show blind loyalty because of what they see on Sportscenter. If you jackup enough fade away threes you're bound to score sooner or later. If he was that great, the Lakers would be higher than a 7th seed.

 

[cw42]

tfinch2: who did you vote for?

 

[Azndude2190]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Ophir

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
Um...Kobe's great performance(s) this year has made the Lakers sucessful.Phil is also a factor but the man earns his dues for what he has to put up with on a constant basis.

I dunno, to me an MVP makes their teamates play better. MJ did that. Kobe just doesn't do that. He realizes that he has sh1tty teamates and says f*ck it, I'll just do all the work. How is that being a team player.

Early in his career, Jordan did exactly what Kobe's been doing. Look at the numbers, they're nearly identical. Jordan became great when he accepted that it's a team sport and began trusting his teammates. It seems like Kobe is starting to learn that, too.

The problem with your argument is that you completely neglect Jordan's early struggles and only consider his prime. I would consider Kobe to be in his early struggles.

Early struggles? How long has kobe been in the league?

Hammerhead, there is no point in arguing with the Kobe lovers on this board. They show blind loyalty because of what they see on Sportscenter. If you jackup enough fade away threes you're bound to score sooner or later. If he was that great, the Lakers would be higher than a 7th seed.

I rarely watch BSPN...I've watched every single Laker game up till now.Even though Kobe is playing like God right now he can only do so much when most of his teamates shouldnt even be in this league right now or are rookies.Also the Lakers have suffered from injuries to one of their key guys in Mihm and Profit went out with a injury early in the season.

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: cw42
tfinch2: who did you vote for?

As a Spurs fan, it pains me to say Dirk.

I think team success should also be a determining factor of MVP.

 

[Hammerhead]

I voted Nash.

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: Azndude2190

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Ophir

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
Um...Kobe's great performance(s) this year has made the Lakers sucessful.Phil is also a factor but the man earns his dues for what he has to put up with on a constant basis.

I dunno, to me an MVP makes their teamates play better. MJ did that. Kobe just doesn't do that. He realizes that he has sh1tty teamates and says f*ck it, I'll just do all the work. How is that being a team player.

Early in his career, Jordan did exactly what Kobe's been doing. Look at the numbers, they're nearly identical. Jordan became great when he accepted that it's a team sport and began trusting his teammates. It seems like Kobe is starting to learn that, too.

The problem with your argument is that you completely neglect Jordan's early struggles and only consider his prime. I would consider Kobe to be in his early struggles.

Early struggles? How long has kobe been in the league?

Hammerhead, there is no point in arguing with the Kobe lovers on this board. They show blind loyalty because of what they see on Sportscenter. If you jackup enough fade away threes you're bound to score sooner or later. If he was that great, the Lakers would be higher than a 7th seed.

I rarely watch BSPN...I've watched every single Laker game up till now.Even though Kobe is playing like God right now he can only do so much when most of his teamates shouldnt even be in this league right now or are rookies.Also the Lakers have suffered from injuries to one of their key guys in Mihm and Profit went out with a injury early in the season.

Azndude, you have no concept of the "role player". Just because a player does not score 20 a game does not mean they should not be in the league. I mean, look at the Bulls from the 90's. They had Jordan and Pippen (about the same talent level as Bryant and Odom), and the rest of the team was role players. They didn't even have someone like Parker who can pick up the slack even more. I'm sorry to let you know that the Laker roster actually has pretty good talent, it's just that Kobe is too selfish to exploit it like Jordan was able to with the role players on the Bulls.

 

[Azndude2190]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: Azndude2190

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Ophir

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
Um...Kobe's great performance(s) this year has made the Lakers sucessful.Phil is also a factor but the man earns his dues for what he has to put up with on a constant basis.

I dunno, to me an MVP makes their teamates play better. MJ did that. Kobe just doesn't do that. He realizes that he has sh1tty teamates and says f*ck it, I'll just do all the work. How is that being a team player.

Early in his career, Jordan did exactly what Kobe's been doing. Look at the numbers, they're nearly identical. Jordan became great when he accepted that it's a team sport and began trusting his teammates. It seems like Kobe is starting to learn that, too.

The problem with your argument is that you completely neglect Jordan's early struggles and only consider his prime. I would consider Kobe to be in his early struggles.

Early struggles? How long has kobe been in the league?

Hammerhead, there is no point in arguing with the Kobe lovers on this board. They show blind loyalty because of what they see on Sportscenter. If you jackup enough fade away threes you're bound to score sooner or later. If he was that great, the Lakers would be higher than a 7th seed.

I rarely watch BSPN...I've watched every single Laker game up till now.Even though Kobe is playing like God right now he can only do so much when most of his teamates shouldnt even be in this league right now or are rookies.Also the Lakers have suffered from injuries to one of their key guys in Mihm and Profit went out with a injury early in the season.

Azndude, you have no concept of the "role player". Just because a player does not score 20 a game does not mean they should not be in the league. I mean, look at the Bulls from the 90's. They had Jordan and Pippen (about the same talent level as Bryant and Odom), and the rest of the team was role players. They didn't even have someone like Parker who can pick up the slack even more. I'm sorry to let you know that the Laker roster actually has pretty good talent, it's just that Kobe is too selfish to exploit it like Jordan was able to with the role players on the Bulls.

I think I know alittle bit more about my own team than a Spurs fan.When you have watched 80 Laker games than you can preach to me about how "good" of talent the Lakers have.Outside of Kobe and Odom who's good?Sasha Vujacic?Devin Green?

 

[puffff]

Originally posted by: Azndude2190

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: Azndude2190

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Ophir

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
Um...Kobe's great performance(s) this year has made the Lakers sucessful.Phil is also a factor but the man earns his dues for what he has to put up with on a constant basis.

I dunno, to me an MVP makes their teamates play better. MJ did that. Kobe just doesn't do that. He realizes that he has sh1tty teamates and says f*ck it, I'll just do all the work. How is that being a team player.

Early in his career, Jordan did exactly what Kobe's been doing. Look at the numbers, they're nearly identical. Jordan became great when he accepted that it's a team sport and began trusting his teammates. It seems like Kobe is starting to learn that, too.

The problem with your argument is that you completely neglect Jordan's early struggles and only consider his prime. I would consider Kobe to be in his early struggles.

Early struggles? How long has kobe been in the league?

Hammerhead, there is no point in arguing with the Kobe lovers on this board. They show blind loyalty because of what they see on Sportscenter. If you jackup enough fade away threes you're bound to score sooner or later. If he was that great, the Lakers would be higher than a 7th seed.

I rarely watch BSPN...I've watched every single Laker game up till now.Even though Kobe is playing like God right now he can only do so much when most of his teamates shouldnt even be in this league right now or are rookies.Also the Lakers have suffered from injuries to one of their key guys in Mihm and Profit went out with a injury early in the season.

Azndude, you have no concept of the "role player". Just because a player does not score 20 a game does not mean they should not be in the league. I mean, look at the Bulls from the 90's. They had Jordan and Pippen (about the same talent level as Bryant and Odom), and the rest of the team was role players. They didn't even have someone like Parker who can pick up the slack even more. I'm sorry to let you know that the Laker roster actually has pretty good talent, it's just that Kobe is too selfish to exploit it like Jordan was able to with the role players on the Bulls.

I think I know alittle bit more about my own team than a Spurs fan.When you have watched 80 Laker games than you can preach to me about how "good" of talent the Lakers have.Outside of Kobe and Odom who's good?Sasha Vujacic?Devin Green?

MVP is most VALUABLE player. Making your teammates better is only one of the criteria, but by no means the most important. Otherwise we should just hand out a "Best Teammate Award". Valuable comes from earning your team wins, because after all, thats why you play the game. Shouldnt matter how you do it, whether through scoring or handing out assists.

Picking from Kobe and Nash is a tough one. Nash got his team a bunch of wins, more than the Lakers, but Kobe is individually responsible just as many. What might give Kobe the edge in a really tight race is defense. He's simply a better defender.

 

[Azndude2190]

All i'm saying is basically if anyone other than Kobe wins MVP...he got robbed...it was his season.Nash already won one last year.

 

[Ophir]

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Ophir

Originally posted by: Hammerhead

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
Um...Kobe's great performance(s) this year has made the Lakers sucessful.Phil is also a factor but the man earns his dues for what he has to put up with on a constant basis.

I dunno, to me an MVP makes their teamates play better. MJ did that. Kobe just doesn't do that. He realizes that he has sh1tty teamates and says f*ck it, I'll just do all the work. How is that being a team player.

Early in his career, Jordan did exactly what Kobe's been doing. Look at the numbers, they're nearly identical. Jordan became great when he accepted that it's a team sport and began trusting his teammates. It seems like Kobe is starting to learn that, too.

The problem with your argument is that you completely neglect Jordan's early struggles and only consider his prime. I would consider Kobe to be in his early struggles.

Early struggles? How long has kobe been in the league?

10 years, but only 2 as the leader in the post-Shaq era. Kobe did not develop in those 8 years as a leader, great player yes, definitely not a leader. Jordan was 27 when he won his first title, after 7 years as head of the Bulls. Kobe is 27 now (and has 3 rings).

I should have figured you'd be too myopic to understand what I meant. .