NEC FP2141SB-BK VS Mitsubishi DP2070SB-BK

[yhelothar]

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EIther your being extremely sarcastic to virtuals remarks or i just dont follow you, you say the dell p1110 loses no quality going from those rates (the 500 was obvciously sarcastic) but on that page you sent it doesnt even go that high!
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It was sarcasm, he has started another thread talking about how poor the P1110 is along with the P275 and in this thread he is talking about how reduced quality at higher resolutions and refresh rates in the instance we are talking about is the monitor's fault and his P1110 had no degredation in quality running a setting it can't, despite the fact that it's so poor he is swearing of AG monitors because of it.

so you are saying I'm lying and I don't actually own the monitors. Look at the specs yourself, the monitor supports up to 121KHz Horizontal refresh. 2048x1536 @75Hz is 120.8KHz refresh, within specs. Just because it doesn't list it on the site, it doesn't mean the monitor isn't capable of it.

Have you ever heard of MULTISYNC? It's a feature all monitors have after around 1990. It means the monitor is able to address any resolution it within it's scan range. Older monitors without multisync could only use resolutions it was presetted to use.

 

[XeoBllaze]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

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EIther your being extremely sarcastic to virtuals remarks or i just dont follow you, you say the dell p1110 loses no quality going from those rates (the 500 was obvciously sarcastic) but on that page you sent it doesnt even go that high!
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It was sarcasm, he has started another thread talking about how poor the P1110 is along with the P275 and in this thread he is talking about how reduced quality at higher resolutions and refresh rates in the instance we are talking about is the monitor's fault and his P1110 had no degredation in quality running a setting it can't, despite the fact that it's so poor he is swearing of AG monitors because of it.

so you are saying I'm lying and I don't actually own the monitors. Look at the specs yourself, the monitor supports up to 121KHz Horizontal refresh. 2048x1536 @75Hz is 120.8KHz refresh, within specs. Just because it doesn't list it on the site, it doesn't mean the monitor isn't capable of it.

Oh, so true... that's common sense. A tad different, but just as the basic laws of overclocking. Specs on a product aren't always the limit for it. Get the point already?

 

[yhelothar]

I just changed the brightness of my monitor to 40 and the contrast to 90, and everything is LCD sharp now. Though the monitor is no longer vibrant . Definately worth getting used to though.

 

[Electricview]

skywalker,

I had considered that, but newegg was a bit more expensive and not free shipping.. plus if i do get one with a bad pixel, newegg will NOT pay to have it shipped back for a replacement or (if they even do it) moneyback, while dell does it all pays for shipping there and back each way.. very easy to keep exchanging this way.. Others have had problems with the 2141, and posted their experiences in this thread..

i'm probably LEAST impressed with the geometry of this 2070sb over the 2141's..

Its funny about that 1130 it has crappy specs on dells website now, but a year ago people were swearing up and down the table that it was a sony g520 tube cuz its specs matched very closely, now dell says it cant even do much over 1600x1200 either they got cheaper tubes or else they just don tknow their monitors anymore...!

I think the replacement will be here tomorrow i'll keep ya updated on what happens..

 

[BenSkywalker]

Electricview-

Others have had problems with the 2141, and posted their experiences in this thread..

I see your point, it just seems odd that you get multiple bad parts from the same vendor consecutively. Hopefully all will be well when your new one arrives. Make sure to keep us informed.

Its funny about that 1130 it has crappy specs on dells website now, but a year ago people were swearing up and down the table that it was a sony g520

I actually didn't care for what I saw of the G520, had the typical convergence problems of the FD Trinitrons. Not sure about the P1130s, never seen one before(is that supposed to be an update to the P1110?).

VG

so you are saying I'm lying and I don't actually own the monitors. Look at the specs yourself, the monitor supports up to 121KHz Horizontal refresh. 2048x1536 @75Hz is 120.8KHz refresh, within specs. Just because it doesn't list it on the site, it doesn't mean the monitor isn't capable of it.

I'm saying the comparison is utterly invalid no matter how you look at it not to mention in this thread you were talking about how great the P1110 is and in another thread you were ready to swear of AG(or Trinitrons) because of it. I have a hard time putting any faith in to your comparison based on these factors.

Have you ever heard of MULTISYNC? It's a feature all monitors have after around 1990. It means the monitor is able to address any resolution it within it's scan range. Older monitors without multisync could only use resolutions it was presetted to use.

You cracking the case to calibrate the monitor?

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

I want to thank all who have posted in this thread. I've learned to be grateful for default settings after altering my monitor,2060u, out of recognition

skywalker, there are adjustments on the control panel that are not in NaviSet, text, graphic & normal being one.

I had changed settings on my Fx5200 for my old Compaq monitor and never went back to default, I did so yesterday.

The text setting in the control panel added some crispness to typed text.

? Do you or anyone following this thread know of a good on-line tutorial on CRT monitor adjustment?
Please post it if you do.

 

[yhelothar]

I believe the P1110 is the G500 and the P1130 is the G520. The specs match up at least.

Skywalker: I meant the P1110 is still as sharp at 75Hz as it is at 60Hz, unlike the P275. P1110 had razor sharp text and dark colors, though horizontal lines on light backgrounds were very blurry.

Here's a good program to help calibrate your monitor

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Thank you I like some of the test patterns better than NaviSet's.

My screen could be shifted just .5 mm to the left.
The rt.side bows in at the center just a tiny bit and the convergence is off just a
touch in the top rt.corner. The text test is dazzling. If I need more, I will buy a book
or a Colorvision Spyder Thanks again, g/y

 

[Electricview]

well acorrding to dells websites the p1130 is nothing near the g520 the specs they post dont even touch what the g520 is listed as on sony's site, i dont get that..


Are you saying our 2070's have a text option on the menu?? i dont see it??

My monitor did not come today =( must be tomorrow

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

I know this is a long thread, but you started it j/k

I have a lease pulled 2060u it has 3 quick settings, text, graphics & normal(probably splits the difference).

The 2070SB (Super Bright) also has three settings called Super Bright Mode off, Mode 1 & Mode 2.

On the support page of NEC/Mitsubishi site there are pdf user manuals. The top of page 13 for the 2060

and page 16 for the 2070 manual.

I tried every color test screen and could not find a pin prick of a spot anywhere. I paid azatek 365+45 shipping, my tummy was in a knot . They assured me it was as new, it arrived well packed but has a tiny ding in the top Lt. corner of the bezel, it can't be seen, only felt. I could have bought new for about 40% more but even this was a bit much.
It came with a 6 month exchange warranty. I'm not promoting them or buying used but if I go dual in the future, at this point, I would get another.
IIRC, the 2060 sold for 1100 in 2001.


This thread has been a good learning experience for this old goat.

 

[BJR]

Two things to note from experience:

Regarding 22" monitors, they will NEVER be as bright or sharp as a 19" monitor - how do I know? Because I ordered a 22" Mitsubishi 2070SB 3 weeks ago - brand new monitor from TigerDirect warehouse. Here's the issues I had with the 2070SB taken right from my email to Mitsubishi:

1) The "auto" geometry function of the monitor still does not work. This
means that it's not a graphics card issue. The monitor is having problems
synching to the 1600X1200 85Hz signal. Manual adjustment takes FOREVER to
adjust and seemingly requires a degree in CRT geometry.

2) The 1/16" geometric dip at the top of the screen is still there. This
means that it's not a graphics card issue.

3) The clarity of text DID improve using the ATI graphics card. This means
that my Nvidia Ti4200 has a noisier output than the ATI card. HOWEVER, and
this is a very important point, I also borrowed a Dell 17" non-flat monitor
(value of less than $150) and was quite shocked to find that the text on the
cheap Dell monitor was incredibably sharp even when cranked up to 1600X1200
resolution.

To keep a long story short, I had to practically beg TigerDirect to substitute the 22" 2070SB with a 19" 930SB. Anyway, they did the exchange but wouldn't refund my money, so I had to buy "extra" junk I didn't need to make up for the price difference. So now I'm sitting here with a Mitsubishi 19" 930SB and here are my observations of the first one that I received from Tigerdirect (again, taken from my emails to Mitsubishi)

BEFORE MONITOR POWERUP:

1) Two pieces of Styrofoam packaging show cracking and are being held together by clear tape.

2) Upon close inspection of the monitor screen, I noticed many "spit" marks as I call them and many finger prints. I should not have to clean the screen of a brand new monitor. The "dirt" on the screen was difficult to remove.


AFTER MONITOR POWERUP:

3) The monitor was not able to sync to the video signal. The screen was WAY off to the left and down (couldn't see the Windows XP start menu)

4) Using the OSM, I set the monitor to "Factory Default". This improved problem #3, but resulted in a screen "Rotation" issue. The screen rotation was now off by a few degrees.

5) There is a noticible concave pincushioning in the upper third left side of the screen. This pincushioning does not appear on the right side of the screen, so it is not symmetrical. There are no OSM controls to adjust this.


Issues #1, #3, and #5 were ALSO present on the 2070SB monitor I used to have. I can only conclude that these problems are a result of poor quality control at Mitsubishi, TigerDirect selling used goods, or shipping damage.

For the record, and to be quite fair, I have to say that Mitsubishi has been very good to me. Customer support is top notch, because they seem to listen to what I have to say. Also, since 9/10 of their monitors for 30 day warranty replacement are refurbished, I specifically asked them to NOT send me a refurbished unit, but rather send me a NEW one. I should get the new monitor on Tuesday. And this time, folks, I will record the entire episode with my DV camera, right from unpacking, to examining the styrofoam packaging, to examining the screen, and powering up.

So there you go. Now I know I'm not the only one having problems with blurry text issues, geometry issues and dirt on the screen.
And thats not the end of the lesson here. I tested out an Nvidia Ti4200 card made by Asus, and the sharpness of text was horrible. I then tested with an ATI AIW 9000 Pro, and the text quality improved a little, but the screen image began to go "wavy" at 85Hz. So then I go fricken' nuts and decide that I need to spend $600 on a 3DLabs VP880 Pro card, assuming this would eliminate the blurry text at refresh rates higher than 60Hz. Well, today I can say I was wrong. Even the $600 3DLabs VP880 Pro shows blurry text at 85Hz. This is driving me up the F***** wall, and the last thing I can do now is to test the VP880 Pro on a spare DELL monitor that I have. If I get the same text blurriness, then I KNOW it's the graphics cards, and that they are ALL JUNK for reading fine text.
The only card left to try now is a Matrox Parehlia.... at this point, I don't care what is the cost, because my eyes are worth it...

I've been spoiled looking at my Viewsonic VG151. I bought it 2 years ago when 15" LCD's were going for $1200, and it was worth every penny. I cannot believe that it's so damn hard to make a graphics card that can output a noise-free 85Hz video signal. Unreal.

 

[BenSkywalker]

BJR-

Of course geometry issues are vid card based- are you running NaviSet? Some of the issues you are having in terms of particular geometry problems can be solved by controls that are in NaviSet that are not in the monitor OSD.

 

[BJR]

The geometry issues of the particular model that I have are non-symmetrical. There are no controls to adjust non-symmetrical geometry problems.

The Naviset software no longer works because I replaced my Nvidia card (one DVI and one VGA connector) with a 3DLabs VP880 Pro (dual DVI connectors)
The DCC function of Naviset software requires a 5th pin that is not present in DVI connectors (only 4 pins). So by using a DVI-VGA adapter provided, I am losing the DCC Naviset functionality.

I'm pissed - I never would have thought of that, no matter how many reviews I read. And there is no mention of this on the Mitsubishi website or 3DLabs website.

Has anyone here had the chance to evaluate monitors with BNC connectors, and if BNC connectors REALLY make a huge difference in text sharpness at higher refresh rates?

 

[BJR]

In response to you comment about

geometry being video card dependant

:

I'll say it again - I tried an Nvidia Ti4200, an ATI AIW 9000 Pro, and a 3Dlabs VP880 Pro. All video card combinations result in the same geometry issues. The factory presets on this unit are not quite right. The non-symmetrical pincushioning at upper left of screen cannot be adjusted.

 

[BenSkywalker]

That should have said aren't vid card related, that was a typo on my part. Geometry issues are native to the display. Losing NaviSet I'd say you are likely worse off with the 3DLabs board then you were with any of the consumer parts.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: Electricview
well acorrding to dells websites the p1130 is nothing near the g520 the specs they post dont even touch what the g520 is listed as on sony's site, i dont get that..


Are you saying our 2070's have a text option on the menu?? i dont see it??

My monitor did not come today =( must be tomorrow

What are you talking about? I just looked them up on dell's and sony websites, and their specifications are identical.

Dell P1130:
Max Sync Rate (V x H): 170Hz x 130KHz
Weight: 67.4 lbs (30.5 Kg)

Sony CPD-G520:
Vertical Scan Range: 48Hz - 170Hz
Horizontal Scan Range: 30kHz - 130kHz
67.4 lbs.

BJR: Dang you've spent a lot of money. If I were you, I would have just gotten a Sony GDM-F520 monitor for $1500. That monitor is the best CRT money can buy. It has the lowest dot pitch at 0.22mm and it even comes with a device to automatically calibrate the color.
Or I would give up on aperture grills and just go shadowmask. Viewsonic G220f is a nice monitor

 

[Electricview]

This is wha ti'm talking about:

Dells p1130:
Max Resolution: 1600 x 1200

Sony g520
Maximum Resolution: 2048 x 1536
Recommended Resolution: 1880 x 1440 @ 85Hz

(taken from their websites, read em and weep!)

 

[Electricview]

I finaly got #4 today.. has 2 of those specs that #3 only had one of.. Still worse goemetry than both the 2141's i had.. probably about the same as the other 2070.. (the sides just get a bit of pincushion that you cant totally correct and the start bar gets a tiny bit cut off at the bottom when the clock and top corners are even..

I think NEC/Mits practices are turning me off big time.. I cant believe its this friggin hard to make a monitor with no dust on the inside glass or whatever it is! are these or are these not supposed to be professional grade or at least professional series monitors??? maybe its why they are cheaper than some of the competitions? (g520 for instance).. I just feel i cannot be happy with such a thing.. I think i might just go with a viewsonic at this point, i dont really want to, but i'm pretty sure i'll get one with no specks on the glass...and if i do then i guess the whole CRT industry has just gone down the tubes becuase they figure LCD's are the way to go..

too bad it had to end this way.. NEC/mist never repiled to my complaint email either.. they are getting double thumbs down from me.. my advice is, pass this one over if you are thinknig about it, unless little specs here and there dont bother you? (anyone who uses a good deal of photoshop and gets close to the screen occasionally will definately notice these specks and apparently they are acceptable by mits/nec's standards)..

No one can say i didnt give them a fair chance.. I expect to be satisfied with the monitor for the money i pay, and i'm not satisfied.. not after 4 of them each with the same problem just in different area's of the screen.. tho let me say the 2141's had it EVEN worse, the specs on the mits 2070's have been smaller and less noticable than the 2141's (you could see the 2141's from about 5 or 6 feet back, while the 2070's you need to be no less than 2 feet away)..

am i anal? Yup.. did i pay 650 bucks for the monitor? your damn skippy i did.. For that kind of money i expect to be happy when i can get a 19 inch that WILL be perfect for 250-300 dollars...

the only good thing that will come out of this thread is my praise for dell.. they have let me trade in 3 of these pos's to try and get noe i'm satisfied with.. I couldn't, but at least dell has been wonderfull about it.. I feel sorry for the mailman who had to deliver them, and i'm sorry dell has probably lost 250 dollars on shipping becuase of this problem, but maybe they will learn their lesson and shut out mits/nec so we dont have to deal with this kind of crap anymore.. Yup i'm bad mouthing mits/nec but i've definately paid my due's in being warrant for doing so..

 

[Asphix20]

Hey all. I just ordered a DP2070SB. It should be here in a week or so. I'll post and let you guys know if i have any of the problems you guys are talking about.. Hopefully I wont.

Prior to this I've been using a Sony GDM F500R with a datecode of 1999. Actually its been 2 of them. One of them has a really sh!tty tube where everything is washed out and i get some color problems in the upper right hand corner. The other one had a perfect tube.. but for some reason 2 weeks ago it just stopped displaying any picture what-so-ever. It still powers up, and gets a signal because the light for the HD15 input (it has 2 inputs one HD15, one BNC) lights up and stays solid, saying its receiving a signal.. but nothing gets displayed. Either the tube died, or a transistor popped that is on the way from the power supply to the tube.

Either way, I'll be getting this new monitor and hopefully be happy with it in comparison to the F500R. I know its an old monitor, but in its day it retailed for 1600 bucks. When I get my new monitor i'm going to try swapping parts between the 2 Sony monitors to see if i can get the other one to work (since it has a far superior picture/color reproduction). Unless you guys can point out that it IS in fact without a doubt that the tube is dead . I did open up the broken monitor and look for any signs of a dead transistor.. and coudlnt find one. BUt then again these monitors have so much sh!t crammed into them I would have had to take the thing COMPLETELY apart to be 100% sure.

Anyway, Just wanted to input my 2 cents. I'll reply when i get my new monitor with any problems ive been having. :-D

 

[yhelothar]

Electricview.. sorry to hear about your problems.
After the 4th replacement from IBM, I was escalated to higher support, and the person there found the same monitor on his own monitor! He then logged it as a commonly known problem, and he let me talk to his manager, which then let me talk to someone even higher. I'm supposed to get a call back tommorrow from the highest level techs, so supposedly I will be escalated 4 times before someone has the power to resolve my problem:rolleyes;.

Also the max resolution stated on a website means nothing, it just means how the manufacturer interprets the data. These monitors are designed to run at 1600x1200@85Hz, however they have the capability to run at 2048x1536 and higher. The vertical scan range determines the max resolution and refresh rate.

 

[ott]

I'm on my first 2070SB geometry is great. I do suffer fuzzy text at refresh rates greater than 70 Hz (1600*1200) which I'm disappointed about. Im think about trying a Matrox G550 card to see if it helps!
Current video card is Gigabyte Radeon 9000.

Graphics BTW are superb!!

I also noticed this article which mentions poor performance on text.

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,114190,00.asp

ott

 

[Electricview]

Hey ott, did you do a spot check? put up a fully white background and spend about 5 mintues going over the monitor from about a foot away.. see if you see any (usually they end up being on the edges and corners, i have yet to have one in the middle...)...



I'm still torn on what to do, I looked at a viewsonic today, it was dissapointing to say the least, seemed a bit more blurry than this monitor, espically when you had its contrast maxed out with higher brightness (my old viewsonic seemed to do an okay job of this??) anyways after i dimmed it a bit it got much sharper, vut was not as brigth as this one i'm on now (mits #3 with only 1 black pixel) and the text on this mits is better by far.. I really want to keep the mits but i keep seeing that damned pixel.. and all i can wonder is "should i send these two back and try a 5th monitor??" If i dont, what other choices do i have? The viewsonic had 2 small small blurs on the screen almost like these dots, but they were lighter in color and undetectable at 2 feet away.. you HAD to be at least 6inches to 1 feet away to see them.. but it did have them.. (they were a light blurry grey so hard to see, on this mits its a PURe black dot you can see it if you know where to look)...

I looked at a few lcd's tonight i guess i never gave them too much of a look some of them weren't half bad.. i could see the blur at 25ns but the 16ns wasn't too bad (was only a 17 inch tho)... not that i'm converting, i still believe in a tube, i am just loosing faith in 22 inch crt's... <BIG SIGH>

 

[yhelothar]

I kinda got used to 85Contrast/40brightness on my IBM now. Everything is very sharp, pretty much LCD sharp at this setting.

 

[ott]

Electricview I dont see any spots on my screen. The text at 60Hz is razor sharp! Still not totally convinced its not a video card affect also. I need to get myself a Matrox G550 to see if it makes a large difference.

Such a shame it aint crisp at 85Hz.

ott

 

[yhelothar]

the 2070 should be the sharpest too with the highest video bandwidth. 2070 should have a video bandwidth of 370MHz IIRC. That should be enough to support 1600x1200 @ 100Hz without losing quality