Need a basic block diagram....

[twangboy]

How do I connect copper telephone lines to a fiber optic backbone? Any body know what
connectivity devices I'll need? Trying to figure out how to wire a school for data, and phone.
Any help would be greatly appreciated,
Thanks in advance....

 

[ScottMac]

The starting point would be: what kind of signal is coming in on the fiber?

Some favorite answers there would be : DS3 (~T3), DS3 ATM, OC3 SONET, OC3 ATM, OC12 ....

Typical would be a DS3, which would be hooked up to a (carrier-supplied) MUX, which breaks out the bandwidth into T1's or bundles of T1s.

The MUX could also be feeding a single router, which breaks out (or aggregates, from the other side) the data / voice information.

SO, whaddya got coming in?


gotta know

-Scott

 

[JustinLerner]

I wouldn't multiplex the voice into the data fiber for much of the reason ScottMac points out. Such equipment is phenomenally expensive once you multiplex ATM with SS7 and other data/video.

It's better to use separate pairs of fiber dedicated for the voice and separate from the data. Yeah, there would be a lot of unused bandwidth on the fiber, but it's easier to setup individual voice to voice multiplexors with fiber converters than to multiplex multiple T1's into the same fiber pair used for data.

Personally, I've never used any Paradyne multiplexing equipment, but it exists. This would be data/voice/video into fiber and vice versa. I've used and installed some of their other equipment and their equipment is good.

RAD makes a good assortment of multiplexers for data/voice/video. If you have T1's or multiple T1's to multiplex, I recommend their solutions. With this example you may also need RADview (a NMS) or SNMP. Here's an example of what I mean: http://www.rad.com/products/family/opt_4t1/opt_4t1.htm Verify something like this with their consultants (salesmen). Yes, they know the capabilities of their equipment. If you have more than 4 T1's from point to point, their Optimux-T3 may be what you need, just don't try to add data.

BlackBox also makes converters and multiplexers of various types, but not in the T1 range.

--

Oh, btw, check into whether you have channelized T1's/T3's or otherwise for you voice drop point of entry or demark. And then talk with consultants accordingly.

---

If you use one pair of fiber for the ATM network (if the campus has one) and another pair is reserved for voice, this product by RAD allows you to mix 1-10Mbit and 1-10/100 Ethernet with up to 8 T1's or other combinations like HSSI. (Modular) http://www.rad.com/products/family/opt-xlt1/opt-xlt1.htm Oh, btw, on this equipment and the RAD equipment above, they have single fiber capability (using two wavelengths on each fiber). This is the SF1 and SF2 combinations of equipment. I first used such configurations in 98 and they were nifty then in saving fibers.

Nothing is cheap, but this is a starting point for research and comparison. Data has significantly higher bandwidth requirements than voice. If you are doing this for school from elementary through high school, my guess is that you need a relatively low voice capacity with standard data capability.

 

[L3Guy]

AS you can see, fiber optic backbone can mean several things.
Also copper telephone lines arn't very specific, either. POTS, "4 wire" E&M and T-1/PRI are all on copper, as well as DS-3.

I am assuming you have a Gigabit ethernet backbone on a campus that you want to transport telephone lines.
Many of the cisco routers are capible of transporting voice over IP, ATM or Frame relay networks.

An example of this would be 2 2600 routers with the NM-HDV cards and either 1T or 2T VWIC.
The pair will allow transport of t-1 accross your data network.

I am certain that cimular solutions exist from a number of network suppliers. I just work for "all Cisco, all the time" kinda place.

If you supply more information, we could give you more then just our guesses.

HTH

Doug

 

[twangboy]

O.K. guys, thanks for the info. I am a total newbie at this and think I have my act together
a bit better this a.m. I have gotten enough info to help explain a bit better.

The fiber will be a backbone for data only. I'll need media convertors to transmit and recieve
and from there, cat5e patch cables to a hub. the hub will feed several class rooms, some with multiple jacks. (via cat5e drops)

How many strands of fiber do I need to be upgradable? What is required for simplex and duplex? Advantages of one over another?
Thanks......

 

[ScottMac]

Please don't take any offense, none is intended, and I'm not flaming you .... but it sounds like you are about in way over your head. This isn't home networking, you can't just buy & swap components at Best Buy ... this sounds like a fairly serious network.

There isn't enough bandwidth on this whole site to get into all the details of what you'll need, and how you'll want to be setting up. "Media converters" would be totally inappropriate. The kind of equipment to do what you're describing is likely to run into the hundereds of thousands of (US) dollars (maybe more). With that kind of money, "Plug & Pray" doesn't cut it.

Try to find a local networking specialist, negotiate to hang around with 'em...stay in the loop and learn. If you try to organize a project of this magnitude with no background, it's gonna be painful later on.

Just friendly advice ...

Good Luck

Scott

 

[JustinLerner]

ScottMac has a few good points. Most importantly, if this is new to you, don't do it or attempt it yourself. You should be working with a professional WAN, multiprotocol specialist.

Like he said, "Try to find a local networking specialist, negotiate to hang around with 'em...stay in the loop and learn. If you try to organize a project of this magnitude with no background, it's gonna be painful later on."

That said, you can get routers, multiprotocol switches which can handle the voice, video and data over IP as already suggested by the L3Guy. But these are way beyond your capability to configure and setup and monitor. You really need to get with a professional to setup and configure your system. L3Guy recommended Cisco equipment. I know that Lucent will also perform consulting, sales, installation, voice integration and maintenance at cost. So will Nortel. So will Alcatel. All of these companies listed are professional and can get reliable, resilient solutions for your school.

If the school has a small budget (which most schools do) and can't spend too much, you need an economically oriented consultant with the IT experience of integration and installation to help you find a reliable and reasonably priced solution. It can be done. Equipment used throughout the school should be the same, not multivendor to reduce maintenance and support problems.

 

[JustinLerner]

Originally posted by: twangboy
. . .
The fiber will be a backbone for data only. I'll need media convertors to transmit and recieve
and from there, cat5e patch cables to a hub. the hub will feed several class rooms, some with multiple jacks. (via cat5e drops)

How many strands of fiber do I need to be upgradable? What is required for simplex and duplex? Advantages of one over another?
Thanks......

Two strands of fiber are typically used for each fiber optic comm device. This is standard because one strand transmits from one location and receives on the other. The remote or other side receives the transmission from the first device and transmits on the other. With WDM (developed by AT&T), two light wavelengths of light are used on the same strand. Each wavelength transmits in one direction and the device at each end is different from the other in wavelength transmitted or received. Like ScottMac said, media converters are just converters, however, they do work. If your existing fiber backbone carries data, I would leave it alone. I would find another fiber strand or pair and use that for voice only with the appropriate equipment. This would save bundles of $$$. (Typically, when fiber is run, many extra fiber strands are left unused for future expansion.)

About media converters: All devices which go from Ethernet or coax or any other media to fiber have integrated media converters -- because electronic pulses and signals must be converted to lightwaves. Stand alone converters are no different in concept that what is integrated into switches, routers or other multiprotocol devices.

 

[JustinLerner]

BTW, you shouldn't be using hubs. Use switches since they are much better and reasonable in cost.

You say only data is to be used on the fiber? For a quick fix at low cost, use 10/100 switches with Gigabit fiber capability for remote device connection to 2 fiber strands and connectors. At the central location, get a Gigabit switch capable of handling all the remote fiber strands. So if you have 8-10 strands of fiber going to each of 3 locations, you should get 3-10/100 switches with Gigabit fiber connectors, then a central switch with at least capability to support support connections to 4 or 8 other switches. Replace your campus hubs with switches if possible.

This assumes your campus doesn't already have a significant routed infrastructure, but probably would work anyhow. Contact a consultant. As long as you don't add voice or video to your fiber for data use, you can save money and make a functional network that doesn't create a single point of failure for all data/video/voice. This should basically work for your campus.

 

[JustinLerner]

Before buying fiber capable devices, you need to confirm the type of fiber used and the fiber terminations at each location. Your devices should match the type of fiber (usually multimode) and the fiber size and wavelength characteristics.

 

[ScottMac]

If it's a buried infrastructure (or aerial - whatever - building-to-building stuff), it's probably single mode.

BTW: WDM / DWDM can get up to 48 or 64 wavelengths (lamda) through a single pair. Expect to pay US$100,000.00 plus per side for a two-four lamda shelf (Nortel Optera Metro can do four lamda each, with the capability of cascading shelves to add additional wavelengths).

FWIW

Scott

 

[JustinLerner]

True about WDM and DWDM. I really meant (at the fundamental level) that two wavelengths are used for each independant 'channel' of communications on the same fiber strand, not that only two wavelengths are used (although WDM can have just two wavelengths for low end devices). That Nortel equipment would be way overkill for most high schools though. The Optera Metro was once considered core equipment, not edge or enterprise, hence the price and extreme difficulty for configuration.

There are solutions that can fit the budgets of most schools, small or large, private or public, with limited budgets and IT staff.

Find out from your installer what type of fiber runs between the buildings. This is very important for your equipment.

 

[L3Guy]

When planning a data network, the biggest single factor is size. A twenty-computer network has fewer complexes than a 200, which is less than a 2000, is less than...
AS your network grows, the complexity required becomes greater.
The second largest factor is the number of geographic sites. The more sites you have, the more you have to understand WAN as well as LAN concepts.
The third important thing to know is the goals of the network. Sharing an Internet connection is much more trivial than running many different applications for many diverse groups with wildly different needs.

Basically, the questions are:
How many
Where
How high are their aspirations/expectations.

HTH

Doug

 

[dexter333]

Heh, this sounds like the threaded case study in the CCNA academy. I'm kinda dreading doing this, but it's another 5 months away and I don't think it will be that bad.

 

[twangboy]

Thanks guys! Yep, in WAY over my head. I wasn't trying to map out point to point, just get an idea of what is necessary. Definately not home networking, that's fo sho.
Kinda got shifted over to an area I know nothing about (obviously) aat work and was trying to pull a rabbit outta my.......... anyway, i think I got the drawing done. And with a lot of help from a local tech guy.