Need a blu-ray player that doesnt suck.

[shortylickens]

I have an early model Samsung player and while it does all right it hasnt made me believe that blu-ray is ultra superior to DVD in any manner. I've only purchased 3 discs and they were bargain bin titles at walmart.

I need a player that reads a disc quickly and automatically picks the largest title & plays it instantly. Ideally this means it skips Prohibited User Operations and those gay ass java menus and such.
Also, if I pause my current player for more than on minute, it stops the the playback entirely and then I have to start all over again with the load screen and annoying menus and forced previews.
I need a player that lets me pause forever and plays immediately without a hiccup.
Also, I can tell by comparison with my regular DVD player that it adds film grain to the video output of DVD's. I can only assume this accounts for the film grain on my blu-ray discs as well. It happens on both the HDMI and component.
I dont like it. If I wanted to see film grain I'd buy a projector and reels instead of discs.
Need a player that can do all of these things, but am afraid I'd probably have to order it from Uzbekistan or something.

moved at OP's request.
Sr Moderator allisolm

 

[skriefal]

Originally posted by: shortylickens
I need a player that reads a disc quickly and automatically picks the largest title & plays it instantly. Ideally this means it skips Prohibited User Operations and those gay ass java menus and such.

Doesn't exist, as best I can tell. Not yet, anyway. Perhaps in a few years, when cheap $50 hackable players are available.

Also, I can tell by comparison with my regular DVD player that it adds film grain to the video output of DVD's. I can only assume this accounts for the film grain on my blu-ray discs as well. It happens on both the HDMI and component.

Grain in inherent to any content shot on film. Most movies released on Blu-ray were shot on film, thus grain is to be expected. HD does not imply "grain-free". Some studios attempt to digitally process the video during the encoding process to remove grain, but this usually hurts more than it helps (removes fine details, makes faces look like waxworks dummies, etc). Yuck.

No player (SD or otherwise) should ever add film grain to SD-DVDs. What you're seeing probably is not film grain but instead is digital artifacts in the standard definition MPEG-2 video content. That's not uncommon with SD-DVD. If your Blu-ray player is connected via a higher-quality output than your SD-DVD player (e.g. HDMI versus component), then this could cause such artifacting to be more easily seen. Your SD-DVD player may also be smoothing its video output -- deliberately or otherwise -- in a way that hides the artifacts, but also degrades resolution and limits fine details.

 

[shortylickens]

You gotta read more carefully man. But I'll repeat with more details so we are all on the same page.

On my DVD player, connected by way of component to television set, NOTHING has film grain appearing except for older movies poorly transferred, and it those instances its pretty darn obvious that it was the film itself. Also, none of my modern TV shows like Titus, Desperate Housewives & Boston Legal (shot on digital camera) or newer movies like the late Star Wars Trilogy (which we all know for a fact were shot with a digital camera) have film grain on the DVD versions. Such things have never appeared on any DVD players I have owned, including the latest one running at 1080i.
However, EVERYTHING I own when played on the blu-ray machine has little white speckles all over the display. Maybe its not film grain, but thats what it looks like. Perhaps its just really poor image processing thats adding artifacts. I'd take a picture of it with my camera but I'm sure it wouldnt show up in a pic. In any case, the junk is appearing on discs that I know dont have it to begin with, and its of uniform appearance across the board. Artifacts looking exactly the same on every disc tells me its the player, not the DVD's. So I guess I dont need a player which doesnt add film grain, I need a player with a superior image processor that doesnt give me noise.

I do understand the speculation about my DVD player reducing noise and hiding such artifacts, but the fact remains that modern stuff shot digitally simply looks cleaner AND sharper on my DVD player and also doesnt have noise. The blu-ray player doesnt do anything to enchance my DVD's other than add small, white, static-like speckles. And it looks exactly like the speckling on all the blu-rays I have played up until now. Again this was noticable on both HDMI and component. Maybe I'll set the thing down to 480i and use the composite just to see if its still there.

Again I have to say, if this is all blu-ray does for me I am not impressed. Right now I am just assuming its my crummy machine and something that can be corrected with a newer model.

I am very grateful for your earlier advice, that I wont be able to buy a player (yet) that loads up movies instantly. I keep seeing ads on the inside of my Netflix packages about a "Lightning Fast" player from Samsung that just got released, but after this many years in the computer world, I know that "lightning fast" means many different things to different people. Maybe that just means a 2 minute wait for the stupid java menus instead of 4 minutes.

On a completely different line, is it now possible for me to buy a blu-ray drive and view movies in Windows XP without a special DRM compliant video card and video cable? Or does it still require Vista and a lot of other nonsense?

 

[skriefal]

Content shot digitally will of course have less grain (or no grain) and look cleaner than content recorded on film or videotape. My point is that most content isn't recorded digitally... especially in the movie world. And for content that wasn't recorded digitally you should expect some grain. With SD-DVD many production houses ran the video through a digital grain-removal filter before feeding it to the encoder. This was necessary to keep the (relatively) primitive MPEG-2 encoders happy; they often don't handle grain or noise well in the incoming video feed, resulting in lots of digital artifacting in the encoded video. This type of filtering is no longer necessary with Blu-ray; the newer codecs (H.264, VC-1, etc) are much more advanced and can handle grain properly. In most cases the grain you see on HD releases was always there -- even in the theater -- but was absent on the SD-DVD only because of the shortcomings of SD MPEG-2. Unfortunately many consumers have been misled into believing that "HD = no grain", and some studios are therefore filtering even their HD Blu-ray releases, resulting in the low-detail, glassy/waxworks pseudo-HD releases I mentioned earlier.

As far as speed is concerned, the players are improving. The Sony PS3 is still the fastest, but the dedicated players are getting better. They'll probably be at parity with the PS3 in a couple years. None of them will allow skipping PUOs or other forced content, unfortunately. Slysoft is working on a PC-based software player that should do what you're asking, but it's not available yet. It'll also require the use of their AnyDVD HD software, so the cost will be high (perhaps in excess of $100).

Cyberlink PowerDVD should work under Windows XP, and should work over VGA without DRM. But digital out via DVI or HDMI will require an HDCP-capable video card. I haven't tested this personally, however... (although I should). I'm restating what I've read elsewhere.

 

[shortylickens]

Amazed the PS3 is the fastest. But I dont wanna spend 600 bucks for a game system I know I wont use.
Thanks for the info.

 

[skriefal]

New PS3s are $350 to $400, and used ones can be found for $250 or less. Add another $20 for Sony's bluetooth-enabled DVD/Blu-ray remote control.

 

[PurdueRy]

What TV do you have and what player? Perhaps I missed it.

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: shortylickens
I have an early model Samsung player and while it does all right it hasnt made me believe that blu-ray is ultra superior to DVD in any manner. I've only purchased 3 discs and they were bargain bin titles at walmart.

I need a player that reads a disc quickly and automatically picks the largest title & plays it instantly. Ideally this means it skips Prohibited User Operations and those gay ass java menus and such.

Say thank you to the Sony/RIAA/MPAA/Hollywood-mob - it's impossible.

Also, if I pause my current player for more than on minute, it stops the the playback entirely and then I have to start all over again with the load screen and annoying menus and forced previews.
I need a player that lets me pause forever and plays immediately without a hiccup.

It sounds like yours is a real PoS player - my year-old LG BH200 multiformat player (HD DVD/BD/DVD) does not do anything like that.

Also, I can tell by comparison with my regular DVD player that it adds film grain to the video output of DVD's. I can only assume this accounts for the film grain on my blu-ray discs as well. It happens on both the HDMI and component.
I dont like it. If I wanted to see film grain I'd buy a projector and reels instead of discs.
Need a player that can do all of these things, but am afraid I'd probably have to order it from Uzbekistan or something.

Players by default do not add film grain unless yours have some utterly weird piece of crap scaler chip inside (that's in charge for upconverting your SD DVDs to HD.)
It also could be that your TV's scaler chip adds another round of scaling (e.g. player is 720p but receives 1080p form the player) etc etc.

What are your model numbers?

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: skriefal The Sony PS3 is still the fastest, but the dedicated players are getting better.

They are already better - PS3's scaling quality is a rather mediocre crap (some high-end users would call it a PoS one ).
PS3 doesn't even offer bitstreaming - and when $200-$300 AVRs can decode TrueHD and DTS-HD MA then obviously I want to apply my magic in the AVR itself.

It's also big, hot etc and yet PS3 always was and still is overpriced.

I never considered it and still wouldn't buy it unless they would mark it down to $100 or less and even so it would be the kitchen player.

Slysoft is working on a PC-based software player that should do what you're asking, but it's not available yet. It'll also require the use of their AnyDVD HD software, so the cost will be high (perhaps in excess of $100).

Isn't AnyDVD HD already capable to de-DRM and back up your entire content? I so then he can already do it even if it's a less than convenient way to do it...

Cyberlink PowerDVD should work under Windows XP, and should work over VGA without DRM. But digital out via DVI or HDMI will require an HDCP-capable video card. I haven't tested this personally, however... (although I should). I'm restating what I've read elsewhere.

Again, thanks to the illegal actions of the Hollywood-mob there are a lot of problems when you try to avoid the set-top player way.

I believe the best way to show your middle finger to these parasites is to get an HDCP stripper and a Decklink Intensity card - you can immediately back up everything and Stringer and all the disgusting parasites can go and fork themselves

 

[skriefal]

Originally posted by: T2k
They are already better - PS3's scaling quality is a rather mediocre crap (some high-end users would call it a PoS one ).

I was referring to player speed, not to scaling quality. Scaling quality is relatively unimportant when viewing Blu-rays.

PS3 doesn't even offer bitstreaming - and when $200-$300 AVRs can decode TrueHD and DTS-HD MA then obviously I want to apply my magic in the AVR itself.

The TrueHD/DTS-HD MA decoder in the player will decode the audio identically to the decoder in your AVR. There only reason to value decoding in the AVR is if your AVR cannot apply further processing (simulation of extra rear-channel speakers, digital EQ, etc) to a multi-channel PCM signal. And such limitations should be quite rare unless you have a very old AVR -- and if you do, if probably won't have a TrueHD or DTS-HD decoder anyway. Does having an extra LED lit on your AVR's front panel somehow improve your perception of the sound?

It's also big, hot etc and yet PS3 always was and still is overpriced.

I do agree with the "hot" bit, but it's not much bigger than most standalone Blu-ray players (although the shape is certainly different). It wasn't overpriced initially -- when standalone players cost in excess of $500 -- although the price may be considered to be on the high end now. But it's still not bad if you value quick disc startup, good menu performance, etc.

I'd prefer that the studios stop wasting effort on useless, blingy Java-based menus... then all players will be fast... but doubt that this will happen. Too many consumers seem to place too much value on useless bling.

Isn't AnyDVD HD already capable to de-DRM and back up your entire content? I so then he can already do it even if it's a less than convenient way to do it...

It can strip the DRM, simplifying use of other software players. But it doesn't include a built-in player, nor will other existing software players allow for some of the user-friendly features asked for by the OP. e.g. Immediate skipping of forced previews, studio logos, and anti-copy warnings. SlyPlayer should offer those features. The goal here isn't to back up the disc content -- it's to quickly play content from the discs.

I believe the best way to show your middle finger to these parasites is to get an HDCP stripper and a Decklink Intensity card - you can immediately back up everything

I've considered the HDCP stripper route, but primarily to avoid HDCP sync issues. HDCP isn't exactly well-documented and interoperability can sometimes be flaky. Some equipment has intermittent issues with HDCP-protected video content. My JVC 52G886 RPTV is one such device; it likes to get confused and revert to a green screen whenever viewing the desktop of my HTPC (but thankfully this issue usually doesn't occur when playing video content from the HTPC). With an HDCP stripper serving as the endpoint of the HDCP chain, the display device will no longer see an HDCP-encrypted signal and these issues should go away. I'm assuming, of course, that the stripper will do a better job of implementing HDCP than the TV!

 

[TheStu]

Didn't I read that the Criterion people use the PS3 as their reference player? Or at least did up until a while ago when some like $1500 panasonic player hit market.

 

[shortylickens]

OK, I was watching another blu-ray from Netflix and realized I need something else. I dont like the color and brightness settings of the player compared to my other input sources. I need player-controlled color and brightness adjustments, ideally that don't require me to stop the disc to change such settings.
I am tired of adjusting my TV settings when switching back and forth between the blu-ray and other inputs. Especially because those look good without adjustment.

For reference, my player is a Samsung BD-P1400. It is not the best, but before I spend any more money I want something that works well and looks good.

Pause forever. Adjust color and brightness on the machine itself. Good image-processing without artifacts. Load up movies really fast, regardless of what type of Java menus they use.

Ideas?

 

[cheinonen]

The closest player that you're going to get to what you are after is the Oppo BDP-83, which is still in a pre-order phase, but if you get on the list you would probably be able to get one in under a month. I have one in my AV rack and it's the same speed as the PS3 for menus and loading of disc features, which is quite impressive. It also has picture adjustments that you can access during playback as well. However, your white sparkles that you are seeing during playback of movies via BluRay that you didn't see from a DVD is most likely caused by a bad HDMI cable, or an HDMI run that is too long, or a low quality HDMI switch. I'm not sure what kind of HDMI cable you are using, but I've not run into any issues with HDMI cables from Blue Jeans Cable, or Monoprice, up to 9 feet long, and I have a very messy AV rack that would cause interference if anything could.

As far as pausing movies for an indefinite time, I know the PS3 does a very good job with this, but I've yet to test it on the Oppo, but I will tonight when I have to calibrate my TV. For stopping and starting movies back up, movies that lack Java can be restarted where they stopped, but movies with Java menus can not as the Java code is unloaded from memory and has to be re-loaded, which causes the players to lose where they were. I've talked to people at Pioneer about this and if it's possible to write the current status to memory (like hibernate on a PC), but at the moment, no players can. I've compared the Oppo to a few other players (Pioneer BDP-51 and BDP-09, Sony PS3) and the Oppo is clearly the best of them.

Finally, for the person that doesn't like that the PS3 won't bitstream, there really isn't much reason to oppose this. The current processor in my AV rack (and many others out there) lack the ability to apply processing (such as Audyssey room correction) to a TrueHD/DTS-MA bitstream as the processor has to spend more cycles decoding it, but is able to apply these to lossless PCM tracks without a problem. For this reason, I keep my Oppo in PCM mode instead of bitstream mode as there is no difference in quality between the two, but there is a large difference between using Audyssey and not using it in the processor. This isn't a cheap processor either, so it's something that a lot of people might run into.

 

[tk149]

Originally posted by: shortylickens
You gotta read more carefully man. But I'll repeat with more details so we are all on the same page.

On my DVD player, connected by way of component to television set, NOTHING has film grain appearing except for older movies poorly transferred, and it those instances its pretty darn obvious that it was the film itself. Also, none of my modern TV shows like Titus, Desperate Housewives & Boston Legal (shot on digital camera) or newer movies like the late Star Wars Trilogy (which we all know for a fact were shot with a digital camera) have film grain on the DVD versions. Such things have never appeared on any DVD players I have owned, including the latest one running at 1080i.
However, EVERYTHING I own when played on the blu-ray machine has little white speckles all over the display. Maybe its not film grain, but thats what it looks like. Perhaps its just really poor image processing thats adding artifacts. I'd take a picture of it with my camera but I'm sure it wouldnt show up in a pic. In any case, the junk is appearing on discs that I know dont have it to begin with, and its of uniform appearance across the board. Artifacts looking exactly the same on every disc tells me its the player, not the DVD's. So I guess I dont need a player which doesnt add film grain, I need a player with a superior image processor that doesnt give me noise.

I do understand the speculation about my DVD player reducing noise and hiding such artifacts, but the fact remains that modern stuff shot digitally simply looks cleaner AND sharper on my DVD player and also doesnt have noise. The blu-ray player doesnt do anything to enchance my DVD's other than add small, white, static-like speckles. And it looks exactly like the speckling on all the blu-rays I have played up until now. Again this was noticable on both HDMI and component. Maybe I'll set the thing down to 480i and use the composite just to see if its still there.

Again I have to say, if this is all blu-ray does for me I am not impressed. Right now I am just assuming its my crummy machine and something that can be corrected with a newer model.

Just a guess here. This doesn't sound like "grain," it sounds like interference.

I'm not familiar with your Blu-Ray player, but my PS3 does not display anything like what you are describing. However, it does sound similar to a problem I used to have. My guess is that you are using a lightly-shielded HDMI cable which is receiving interference from other cables.

I originally had my PS3 directly hooked up to my TV with a heavy (well-shielded) HDMI cable. Great picture. I bought a receiver, and then hooked up the PS3 to the receiver using that heavy HDMI cable, and then used a light (not well-shielded) HDMI cable to connect the receiver to the TV. I immediately noticed white speckles randomly appearing on screen, kind of like what you used to get with analog TV antenna signals.

There are a number of cables going to the back of the TV. I fixed the problem by switching the heavy HDMI cable and the light HDMI cable, so that the PS3 connected to the Receiver (a very short distance with few other wires around) with the light HDMI cable, and used the heavy HDMI cable to connect the receiver to the TV (longer distance plus lots of other cables around increasing EMF interference).

I suggest trying a more heavily-shielded HDMI cable. Maybe swap your DVD player cable temporarily?

Yeah, and I really hate those stupid Blu-Ray/DVD menus too. I just wanna watch the durn movie!

I've left my PS3 on pause for hours. It just darkens the screen after a few minutes, and then takes about 5-10 seconds to restart from the paused frame.

 

[s44]

Yeah, it may be "sparklies" from a crappy HDMI cable.

 

[krotchy]

Originally posted by: s44
Yeah, it may be "sparklies" from a crappy HDMI cable.

This. The "grain" you are seeing, if it is white speckles using an HDMI cable means you need a new cable or to plug the HDMI cable in tighter.

 

[shortylickens]

My HDMI cable is shielded. After digging around online I am convinced its the image processor on my ridiculously bad player.

BUT, thanks for the tip on that other player. I will start looking into it this second.
Also, I just got a Radeon 4890 which is HDCP compliant. Saw some cheap Lite-On bluray drives at Walmart for 123 bucks. Will think about that too.

 

[gar655]

Originally posted by: shortylickens
OK, I was watching another blu-ray from Netflix and realized I need something else. I dont like the color and brightness settings of the player compared to my other input sources. I need player-controlled color and brightness adjustments, ideally that don't require me to stop the disc to change such settings.
I am tired of adjusting my TV settings when switching back and forth between the blu-ray and other inputs. Especially because those look good without adjustment.


Ideas?

Sounds like you need a new TV as well. Most any decent HD TV will have seperate picture adjustments for each input.

 

[s44]

Even if it says it's shielded, it may be defective, or too long, or whatnot. Does it show that white stuff on test patterns too? Or try switching over to component for a little bit.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: s44
Even if it says it's shielded, it may be defective, or too long, or whatnot. Does it show that white stuff on test patterns too? Or try switching over to component for a little bit.

Its only 18 inches long.
It did show the exact same thing on the component as well.

I dont have any test patterns, but on the settings screen with the blue Samsung logo I can still see it.

 

[CubanlB]

So, your answer is your thread title, you do need a bluray player that doesn't suck (or isn't broken) Artifacting over component means you have a defective bluray player. Most of the new Samsungs are pretty great players as are most name brand players. Just don't a pioneer bdp-51fd or any sharp bluray players as they are also total pieces of crap.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: CubanlB
So, your answer is your thread title, you do need a bluray player that doesn't suck (or isn't broken) Artifacting over component means you have a defective bluray player. Most of the new Samsungs are pretty great players as are most name brand players. Just don't a pioneer bdp-51fd or any sharp bluray players as they are also total pieces of crap.

I'd get the 51FD over any Samsung Blu-ray player. And the 51FD is far from being a piece of crap. I'd however recommend the Oppo-83 if your budget is under $600, and the Sony and Panasonic players for budgets $400 or less. However, if you want the most reliable and versatile Blu-ray player available with media player capabilities and the ability to play games, the PS3 it is.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Originally posted by: T2k

Originally posted by: skriefal The Sony PS3 is still the fastest, but the dedicated players are getting better.

They are already better - PS3's scaling quality is a rather mediocre crap (some high-end users would call it a PoS one ).
PS3 doesn't even offer bitstreaming - and when $200-$300 AVRs can decode TrueHD and DTS-HD MA then obviously I want to apply my magic in the AVR itself.

It's also big, hot etc and yet PS3 always was and still is overpriced.

I never considered it and still wouldn't buy it unless they would mark it down to $100 or less and even so it would be the kitchen player.

Slysoft is working on a PC-based software player that should do what you're asking, but it's not available yet. It'll also require the use of their AnyDVD HD software, so the cost will be high (perhaps in excess of $100).

Isn't AnyDVD HD already capable to de-DRM and back up your entire content? I so then he can already do it even if it's a less than convenient way to do it...

Cyberlink PowerDVD should work under Windows XP, and should work over VGA without DRM. But digital out via DVI or HDMI will require an HDCP-capable video card. I haven't tested this personally, however... (although I should). I'm restating what I've read elsewhere.

Again, thanks to the illegal actions of the Hollywood-mob there are a lot of problems when you try to avoid the set-top player way.

I believe the best way to show your middle finger to these parasites is to get an HDCP stripper and a Decklink Intensity card - you can immediately back up everything and Stringer and all the disgusting parasites can go and fork themselves

the intensity card will not capture copy-protected signals. to work around this, install a blu-ray drive and rip with dvdfab hd decryptor.

 

[cheinonen]

Originally posted by: CubanlB
So, your answer is your thread title, you do need a bluray player that doesn't suck (or isn't broken) Artifacting over component means you have a defective bluray player. Most of the new Samsungs are pretty great players as are most name brand players. Just don't a pioneer bdp-51fd or any sharp bluray players as they are also total pieces of crap.

The Pioneer BDP-51FD is a nice player, but compared to the Oppo it's much slower, lacked Profile 2.0, and SACD/DVD-A support. Also, having to burn off a CD to update the firmware instead of doing it online or via USB is annoying. However, the picture quality is great, it can bitstream all of the new audio codecs, and with the recent firmware upgrade it can also decode them and send them as PCM over HDMI. It wouldn't be my first choice of players, that's the Oppo, but by no means is it a "total piece of crap" as you said.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: skriefal

Originally posted by: T2k

It's also big, hot etc and yet PS3 always was and still is overpriced.

I do agree with the "hot" bit...

Hot? My PS3 never gets "hot"...at least not nearly as much as the 360.