Need a new daily driver <$25k

[patrick409]

Thanks for the input. I'll check them out but looking online the plaid is really ugly IMO. But if it drives well and is the right price I can overlook that

Yeah the plaid tends to be fairly love/hate from anyone who has seen it. Fwiw, it's not nearly as "loud" in person. The cloth is darker than the pictures show. I wasn't too big a fan either when I was car shopping online, but once I got a chance to sit in the car they grew on me pretty quick.

Then again, I gave a ride to a 23 yo girl a couple weeks back and her reaction to the plaid was "omg your car is so rice!" :screwy:

 

[Atty]

Thanks for the input. I'll check them out but looking online the plaid is really ugly IMO. But if it drives well and is the right price I can overlook that

Get the Autobahn version, which has the leather, and no more plaid!

 

[Atty]

Double Post.

I know, I was just jerking your chain :sneaky:

Off topic: Whats your word on your speed3? I'm waiting on one to get in stock at my local dealer for a test drive. Words of wisdom? It is on my list of potentials.

 

[saratoga172]

Double Post.

Off topic: Whats your word on your speed3? I'm waiting on one to get in stock at my local dealer for a test drive. Words of wisdom? It is on my list of potentials.

I only got to test drive one before I bought my Mazda 3 but it was awesome. You'll like it though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[The J]

+1 for a Focus Ti. I've had mine for 9 months (dual clutch auto version) and still enjoy it.

Thirded. I'm very happy with my SEL hatch I bought a few months ago. The SEL level is not available in manual, but the Titanium is. Mine has MyFord Touch (it came with the Gen 2 software) and navigation and they've worked pretty well for the most part. I believe you can now get Titanium versions without MFT, but you don't save money by doing so.

 

[vi edit]

Ok...so I'm going out and doing a lot of reading on the Focus ST. Damn. Cheaper than the MazdaSpeed 3, a touch down on power but also lighter. Recaro seats...decent option list. Starts around $25k. 32MPG on regular gas. Low 6 second 0-60 times and not overly boy-racer styled. I like!

 

[JCH13]

Double Post.

Off topic: Whats your word on your speed3? I'm waiting on one to get in stock at my local dealer for a test drive. Words of wisdom? It is on my list of potentials.

The word(s) on my speed are "a retarded amount of fun" from everyone who has driven it. It is an enthusiasts car, it has a stiff clutch, a tightly gated shifter, heavy steering feel, and a stiff low ride. It will be a little harder to drive smoothly than say, a GTI, but it is much more fun IMO. Don't try to fight the shift and slam it into gears, you should only need a light touch.

The Mazdaspeed CAI has been dyno'd to add 25whp, it's a must-do mod, especially since it's Mazda sanctioned.

 

[Atty]

The word(s) on my speed are "a retarded amount of fun" from everyone who has driven it. It is an enthusiasts car, it has a stiff clutch, a tightly gated shifter, heavy steering feel, and a stiff low ride. It will be a little harder to drive smoothly than say, a GTI, but it is much more fun IMO. Don't try to fight the shift and slam it into gears, you should only need a light touch.

The Mazdaspeed CAI has been dyno'd to add 25whp, it's a must-do mod, especially since it's Mazda sanctioned.

My only hesitation with it is that it's fuel economy is lower than the gti. What do you get when you aren't lead footing it? I've got a 60 mile all highway round trip commute daily. If I could get 30 with it I would be happy.

E: Do you suggest looking for used 07-09's or 10-12's?

 

[JCH13]

My only hesitation with it is that it's fuel economy is lower than the gti. What do you get when you aren't lead footing it? I've got a 60 mile all highway round trip commute daily. If I could get 30 with it I would be happy.

E: Do you suggest looking for used 07-09's or 10-12's?

I've gotten 30mpg lead-footing it on the interstate with multiple 65-100mph sprints... I mean, I would never do that on public highways...

Setting cruise at 80mph I got 32mpg across Nebraska.

The 2nd gens have a substantially different exterior/interior, I prefer the 1st gens in that regard, but that's personal preference. The 2nd gen does have better shocks, wider tires, slightly different transmission gearing, hood scoop, and better ECU tune that are all improvements from the 1st gen. The 2nd gen handle better, but doesn't feel as raw as the 1st gen (from what I've read/seen).

In your position I would seriously consider the 2nd gen given that your commute is 58 miles longer than mine, so the more refined aspects of the 2nd gen are more appreciated.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

I've gotten 30mpg lead-footing it on the interstate with multiple 65-100mph sprints... I mean, I would never do that on public highways...

Setting cruise at 80mph I got 32mpg across Nebraska.

The 2nd gens have a substantially different exterior/interior, I prefer the 1st gens in that regard, but that's personal preference. The 2nd gen does have better shocks, wider tires, slightly different transmission gearing, hood scoop, and better ECU tune that are all improvements from the 1st gen. The 2nd gen handle better, but doesn't feel as raw as the 1st gen (from what I've read/seen).

In your position I would seriously consider the 2nd gen given that your commute is 58 miles longer than mine, so the more refined aspects of the 2nd gen are more appreciated.

That is exactly what I would describe the first gen as. It's about as close to a motorcycle I've ever felt in a car. It feels like it's right on the edge of the envelope or about to just blow up or lose control or something. But it never did in my test drives. It was amazingly fun to drive. It's why I was 90% of the way to buying one (just couldn't justify it at the time financially).

 

[JCH13]

That is exactly what I would describe the first gen as. It's about as close to a motorcycle I've ever felt in a car. It feels like it's right on the edge of the envelope or about to just blow up or lose control or something. But it never did in my test drives. It was amazingly fun to drive. It's why I was 90% of the way to buying one (just couldn't justify it at the time financially).

If that's what you thought driving a stock one, you'd pull the trigger in a hear-beat if you knew what they were light even lightly modified!

 

[xSkyDrAx]

If that's what you thought driving a stock one, you'd pull the trigger in a hear-beat if you knew what they were light even lightly modified!

Any idea of Mazdaspeed are still making their CAIs? Been looking around but it looks like they stopped after the first gen speed3s.

I've been getting the mod bug but it's too soon :\ I was hoping to wait out the warranty status first but 3 years is a loooong time

 

[JCH13]

Any idea of Mazdaspeed are still making their CAIs? Been looking around but it looks like they stopped after the first gen speed3s.

I've been getting the mod bug but it's too soon :\ I was hoping to wait out the warranty status first but 3 years is a loooong time

I've read that there are some (maybe many) mod-friendly dealers, the warranty doesn't specifically prohibit them either IIRC.

The MSCAI is basically a rebranded CAI from... Apexi if memory serves. So if you got an Apexi for the Gen 2, it'd be the way to go.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Well picked up my car from getting repairs done last night (That's a fun story, I might create another thread for that one), and thought "since I'm here let's talk to them about a Focus Titanium..." So I talked with a sales guy for a bit and walked out to look at them in person. I liked the look. Sadly they didn't have any with the red/black two tone (or even white/black to get a better idea in my head on it). After talking with the guy about it for a bit though, he got a key fob and let me go on a solo test drive in a 5 spd they had. Here were my thoughts:

The good
-First I was very impressed with the interior. It looked nice and was very "natural" and comfortable. I really liked it.
-I like the key fob/push button start and the one touch lock on the handle.
-Holy crap buttons. They were EVERYWHERE. Seat warmer dials, control area for dual zone climate with lots of buttons, radio stuff, touch screen for radio/phone/other stuff I forget. Then on the steering wheel radio controls, controls for the LCD on dash, cruise control, and phone/voice commands.
-Once I got a chance to figure out the touch screen, well some of it, I liked it. Not sure how I'd like it while driving but I'm sure I'd get used to it.
-Driving it was very enjoyable. The transmission was good, and I liked the clutch.
-Steering was very light to where it didn't seem mechanical in nature (even though I'm sure it is)
-Performance was satisfactory, but it obviously wasn't the same as a Mazdaspeed3
-It was fun to drive and I'd suggest test driving one if you're looking for a car in this price range

The bad
-So many buttons. While I like my gadgets and buttons, there were some UI things that I wasn't huge on. Namely climate control. I'm not sure why it wasn't integrated into the touch screen, or why they used the button style they did. It wasn't the easiest to mess with while driving.
----Subset of this is the steering wheel which was same thing. These I'm going to chalk up to just not being used to that as my car has very very basic controls.
-I could not figure out how the hell to adjust the angle of the seat back. The lever on the side was like a lumbar support to increase/decrease. There was a bar under it to adjust forward/back of the seat (sliding forward/back), but where the hell were the controls to adjust the angle of the back of the seat!?!?!?!
-Performance was acceptable, but not a "performance" car. I got the feeling that it was a vehicle designed to be enjoyable to ride in and have a quality inside with above average performance for the segment. But it was not a Speed3 or even an Si (08 model years for both).
-I felt removed from driving. I'd love to drive it for a long road trip, but if I wanted to drive I don't think I'd pick the Focus Titanium.

In summary I really liked the car. There were some issues I had (HOW THE F DO I CHANGE THE RECLINE ANGLE!?!?!?!), but they were pretty minor. I could easily oversee them. The main reservation I have with this car is performance (when compared to the others I'm looking at). Where the Speed3 has been described in this thread as "raw", I'd say this car would be described as "comfortable." It's a car I would be comfortable in every day and would have fun driving, but I had problems really getting it to give me the push you into the seat performance that is really fun at times. Best way to describe it is I would say it's comparing a motorcycle crotch rocket (Speed3) to a Harley/cruiser (Focus Ti). The crotch is a blast, but is more one track and can be tiring if you're going a long way. The Harley is more relaxing and enjoyable regardless of the time you spend on it, but can't quite get the same "rush" that a crotch rocket gives.

This car has left a really positive impression and will warrant getting to know more

 

[vi edit]

Wait for the Focus ST to hit the lots. 6 spd, 250HP, 270 ft/lbs of torque. Wheeeee!

Not going to be as raw as a Speed3, but will be a night and day faster car than the base Focus.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

Well picked up my car from getting repairs done last night (That's a fun story, I might create another thread for that one), and thought "since I'm here let's talk to them about a Focus Titanium..." So I talked with a sales guy for a bit and walked out to look at them in person. I liked the look. Sadly they didn't have any with the red/black two tone (or even white/black to get a better idea in my head on it). After talking with the guy about it for a bit though, he got a key fob and let me go on a solo test drive in a 5 spd they had. Here were my thoughts:

The good
-First I was very impressed with the interior. It looked nice and was very "natural" and comfortable. I really liked it.
-I like the key fob/push button start and the one touch lock on the handle.
-Holy crap buttons. They were EVERYWHERE. Seat warmer dials, control area for dual zone climate with lots of buttons, radio stuff, touch screen for radio/phone/other stuff I forget. Then on the steering wheel radio controls, controls for the LCD on dash, cruise control, and phone/voice commands.
-Once I got a chance to figure out the touch screen, well some of it, I liked it. Not sure how I'd like it while driving but I'm sure I'd get used to it.
-Driving it was very enjoyable. The transmission was good, and I liked the clutch.
-Steering was very light to where it didn't seem mechanical in nature (even though I'm sure it is)
-Performance was satisfactory, but it obviously wasn't the same as a Mazdaspeed3
-It was fun to drive and I'd suggest test driving one if you're looking for a car in this price range

The bad
-So many buttons. While I like my gadgets and buttons, there were some UI things that I wasn't huge on. Namely climate control. I'm not sure why it wasn't integrated into the touch screen, or why they used the button style they did. It wasn't the easiest to mess with while driving.
----Subset of this is the steering wheel which was same thing. These I'm going to chalk up to just not being used to that as my car has very very basic controls.
-I could not figure out how the hell to adjust the angle of the seat back. The lever on the side was like a lumbar support to increase/decrease. There was a bar under it to adjust forward/back of the seat (sliding forward/back), but where the hell were the controls to adjust the angle of the back of the seat!?!?!?!
-Performance was acceptable, but not a "performance" car. I got the feeling that it was a vehicle designed to be enjoyable to ride in and have a quality inside with above average performance for the segment. But it was not a Speed3 or even an Si (08 model years for both).
-I felt removed from driving. I'd love to drive it for a long road trip, but if I wanted to drive I don't think I'd pick the Focus Titanium.

In summary I really liked the car. There were some issues I had (HOW THE F DO I CHANGE THE RECLINE ANGLE!?!?!?!), but they were pretty minor. I could easily oversee them. The main reservation I have with this car is performance (when compared to the others I'm looking at). Where the Speed3 has been described in this thread as "raw", I'd say this car would be described as "comfortable." It's a car I would be comfortable in every day and would have fun driving, but I had problems really getting it to give me the push you into the seat performance that is really fun at times. Best way to describe it is I would say it's comparing a motorcycle crotch rocket (Speed3) to a Harley/cruiser (Focus Ti). The crotch is a blast, but is more one track and can be tiring if you're going a long way. The Harley is more relaxing and enjoyable regardless of the time you spend on it, but can't quite get the same "rush" that a crotch rocket gives.

This car has left a really positive impression and will warrant getting to know more

Sounds like the seat issue is a user error . if you got out of the car and looked at the seat you'd probably find the handle for the adjuster too. (I had the same issue when I got my car but i found out just grabbed the wrong handle)

As for the crotch rocket analogy, you just have to remind yourself that you CAN drive the speed3 like a normal car, it's just a little hard when the go pedal eggs you on and on longer trips you are totally at the mercy of the road quality (smooth roads are easy, crappy roads and it's a beating)

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

I know this is an older thread to bump... but... test drove the 2012 Civic Si, 2012 Speed3, and 2013 Focus ST yesterday and wanted to update with my thoughts. First the Civic Si:

The Good
-Very forgiving clutch. Very easy to learn it, and was closest in feel to current clutch (which is most likely going to need replaced here somewhat soon I think)
-Loved the split display. The tach large and through the wheel and the digital speedometer above the wheel, along with the other things like radio and such.
-The electronics in the car were easy to figure out and fairly intuitive.
-Was an easy drive. Fairly similar to the Focus Titanium level in how it drove. To be fair I didn't test drive it like I did the other two as the sales guy was in the car (not to mention he kept leaning up through the two front seats to screw with the radio and such... look at cons)
-Not a hatchback, and I like the exterior look. While I don't hate hatches, I do have a preference to 4 doors with fold down seats instead of a hatch for exterior looks.
-Seats I liked, were easier to get out of than the Focus ST but not as easy as the Speed 3 or Focus Titanium.
-With the 2013's coming out, could most likely get a good deal on a 2012. Or wait to see the benefits of the 2013 in 2 months or so.

The Bad
-SALES GUY WENT WITH!!!! Made it almost a pointless test drive as I don't want to open it up with them in the car.
-While it wasn't "lacking" power, it also wasn't begging to have fun like the other two were. It seemed to let the driver choose how to drive and fit that need (to an extent, since if I wanted the raw power of the speed3/ST it couldn't provide it)
-The space inside. While front to back, and left to right sides felt ample the bottom to top height was not. I'm a relatively tall guy at 6'2, and I had to lower the seat almost all the way to it's lowest position to keep my head/hair from rubbing against the roof.

Overall I liked it, but it begged the question what do I want from a car. Do I really want the Speed3/ST type car? I know myself and know that I would be likely to push speed limits in them, and most likely get tickets. The Civic Si I don't think that would be as much the case with. The height thing really bothers me too. I don't know if I would want a car that my head might be rubbing into. This really did seem like a civic with some extra power so you could easily pass on the highways if needed. I think Caranddriver summed it up best about the 2012 Si which I'll paraphrase as it's more sophisticated than the last gen, but less raw. Offers better ride with less noise in the cabin. It might not be the "fun" that a Speed3/ST would offer, but instead the most sophisticated and easiest for daily driving or long road trips.

Speed3 and ST reviews next...

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Next up the Speed3 which just kind of happened to be an option. Went to a Ford dealer who said on the phone they had ST's on the lot for test driving, but when I got there they had one in the show room that couldn't test drive. However, there was a Mazda dealer next door that had a Speed3.

The Good
-As I remember, this thing was a blast to drive. Ample power in any gear. Once the turbo kicked in at least, which didn't result in too much lag.
-By far the easiest to get in/out of.
-Did I mention it was so much fun to drive?
-The controls and UI for various things made sense. Things worked as I expected them too. The thing that the others didn't have was I could zoom in/out of the GPS on the steering wheel. There are lots of buttons and stuff, yes. However they worked as expected.
-Clutch was very tight and even after a solid 20-30 minute test drive over city, highway, and some back roads I still was not used to it.
-Very easy to get in/out of.
-It wasn't quite as raw as the first gen, and you could tell Mazda was able to refine it a bit so it wasn't so... wild. I like that.
-It rode well. Both myself and my female friend with me thought it rode the best out of the 3.
-Have I talked about how fun this was to drive?

The Bad
-What the hell is the point of the hood scoop. It's ugly. Why would you put that on Mazda? I mean really.
-I'm not sure if I would want to drive it on long trips.
-MPG... Wow. This is am important thing for me. My current car is 7.5 years old with 115k on it. That means I'm putting ~15k/year on it at 30-33 mpg. Long term tests from car reviewers say this is going to be around 24 mpg. Doing the math, that means I'm using an extra 150 gallons of gas per year (175 if I go off 33 mpg). With the switch to premium+$4/gal gas (so $4.30/gal) I'm looking at an extra $650/year in fuel costs. That only goes up as gas prices rise. Over the life of the car (7-8 years estimating) that's an extra $5k in costs. That's a tough pill to swallow, as it puts it as more expensive than the ST or Si.
-No moon/sunroof. I know why they did it, but still kind of want one.
-Blind side alerts. I don't mind the mirrors lighting up, but stop fucking beeping at me. I hate my car telling me how to fucking drive.
-Semi-odd placement of the GPS and the second screen. I feel that more often I'd be looking at the second screen than the GPS so I'd want it more in front of me.

All around it was the most well liked of the bunch yesterday. However there are some issues. The hood scoop screams "I WANT ATTENTION" when what is under the hood will give all the attention it needs. It's a great interior and I like the UI for the interfaces, but no moon/sunroof. It drove very well, and when boost kicks in there is power in any gear, but I question how harsh a long trip would be in it. It was the easiest to get in/out of and it felt like it had the most space inside. I couldn't get used to the clutch. I know I would, but it's either on or off it's not forgiving like the Si. Also it's very springy and engages very early. The MPG really concerns me. Doing the math on it makes it an expensive car, and while all of them require premium they would be more in line with current mpg. The Speed3's low gas mileage really hurts it because it puts it at almost $30k MSRP+estimated extra fuel costs over the Si/Titanium/ST.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Finally the Focus ST. While at the Mazda dealer I checked to see if any other Ford dealers were nearby. There was one about 10 miles away that had 3 ST's in stock. One on the showroom and 2 on the lot.

The Good
-Loved the seats when sitting in them.
-Enjoyed all the tech. It was fun to play with.
-Clutch was not as touchy as the Speed3, but not as forgiving as the Si. Was a decent compromise
-Performance was a mix between the two as well. It offered some of the Speed3 power when asked, but not quite the same. It offered the refinements of the Si in that it would be more enjoyable (I'd guess) for casual driving and road trips.
-No hoodscoop and moon/sunroof options are both on the plus side.
-MPG looks to be good at not much worse than my current 33 combined. Definitely better than the Speed3's.

The Bad
-Once again, as with the Titanium... holy fuck buttons. I think I spent more time on the test drive screwing with those than actually driving it. Speaking of, the "up" buttons on left/right of the steering wheel were not easy to get to in a natural position of my hands on it.
-The electronics were not intuitive nor were they easy to use. Notably the GPS, but also the audio (although that wasn't as bad as the GPS).
-Getting out. I felt like I was crawling out of a well. Definitely was not as easy as the other 2.
-Expensive, although with the Speed3's extra fuel expense estimation added in it's cheaper. This could also be reduced as I might be able to get employee pricing.

Overall, I liked it. It was the best blend of all of them I drove yesterday but master of none. There were annoyances like getting out of it, and the electronics UI weren't very intuitive IMO. The "up" button on the steering wheel was a pain to try to depress from normal driving hand positions for me. It had plenty of power when asked for it. I will have to see about the cheapest I can get the car for as it seems to offer a lot of what I want.

 

[ballmode]

So what's it gonna be ?

 

[Arkaign]

A question and a statement

(1)- Have you tried a current V6 Mustang 6spd? 21/30MPG, which might be a problem, but holy crap performance. 0-60 in 5.1 (MT), and there is already pretty solid aftermarket for these.

(2)- As for the tech aspect with all the buttons, I hear ya. For the most part unless it becomes something OCD for you, after you use the stuff for a while it will become automatic and seamless for you. I've even gotten used to 1st gen i-Drive, and even though it remains cumbersome (so many steps to do things), it didn't bother me much. The good thing about having all those buttons is once you memorize what they all are, you'll be able to manipulate them easily by memory fairly quickly.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

So what's it gonna be ?

Need to test drive the others remaining on the OP. Once that's done, I'll start narrowing it some more through more test drives and such. As it stands now the Speed3 is leading from enjoyment, but the ST is leading from the all around vehicle. The Si and Titanium aren't entirely out yet though either.

A question and a statement

(1)- Have you tried a current V6 Mustang 6spd? 21/30MPG, which might be a problem, but holy crap performance. 0-60 in 5.1 (MT), and there is already pretty solid aftermarket for these.

(2)- As for the tech aspect with all the buttons, I hear ya. For the most part unless it becomes something OCD for you, after you use the stuff for a while it will become automatic and seamless for you. I've even gotten used to 1st gen i-Drive, and even though it remains cumbersome (so many steps to do things), it didn't bother me much. The good thing about having all those buttons is once you memorize what they all are, you'll be able to manipulate them easily by memory fairly quickly.

I've not tried it. However I'm not really a fan of the Challenger, Mustang, or Charger. The Mustang isn't too bad though. I might check one out next time I'm at a Ford dealership.

On point 2, I know I'd get used to stuff but at the same time I would like something that makes sense and won't irritate me in the "why the F do I have to go through 25 steps to change the radio station?!?!?!?!" kind of way.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

The ones left to test drive are:
Impreza WRX
BRZ
Jetta GLI
Genesis Coupe

 

[ballmode]

Maybe you can snag one of these in a base model or something

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1109_2012_buick_regal_gs_first_test/

270hp/290tqe

 

[Arkaign]

Maybe you can snag one of these in a base model or something

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1109_2012_buick_regal_gs_first_test/

270hp/290tqe

"our car's as-tested price of $38,650"

I think the only ones even remotely in the same neighborhood as the $25k range would be the base 180hp 2.4L i4 model, but even getting that price would be hard. That car is aimed at the Lexus IS250, etc.

I'm not saying it's not a very decent car, but I don't think it's in the cards for $25k as the turbo, unless I'm understanding things completely wrong.