Need advice for new mid-range system with an emphasis on small, cool, quiet

[monkeydelmagico]

Hyper 212 or whatever 120mm floats your boat. I find matching fan sizes more aural pleasant than various sizes. It will look "crazy huge" compared to stock though.

 

[mfenn]

For now yes.

The difference you're seeing is the system RAM that is being used by the IGP for its VRAM.

Edit: Okay, I unplugged both front fans and the rear and it almost sounds exactly as it did before, including the higher-pitched sound, so that leads me to believe most of what I'm hearing is the stock Intel cooler fan. I've only ever used stock coolers since I don't OC. I'm open to another one, but not something crazy huge and it must be quieter than what I have now. Any immediate suggestions come to mind?

You can test for sure by just stopping the CPU fan with a pencil or whatever. The system isn't going to overheat or anything from the fan being stopped for a minute or so. Hell, I run an i3 2100 with the fan on the stock cooler unplugged without issue.

 

[illram]

Unplug the CPU fan to make sure. In my experience, stock Intel fans these days are not that noisy. Leave the case open and inspect it while it is on with all fans off and see if you still hear it.

If you're hearing a high pitched whine, it could also be your PSU.

 

[antef]

The difference you're seeing is the system RAM that is being used by the IGP for its VRAM.

Yeah, just realized that when looking at the main page of the motherboard setup. I've been doing this long enough...should've remembered that!

You can test for sure by just stopping the CPU fan with a pencil or whatever. The system isn't going to overheat or anything from the fan being stopped for a minute or so. Hell, I run an i3 2100 with the fan on the stock cooler unplugged without issue.

Unplug the CPU fan to make sure. In my experience, stock Intel fans these days are not that noisy. Leave the case open and inspect it while it is on with all fans off and see if you still hear it.

If you're hearing a high pitched whine, it could also be your PSU.

Thanks for keeping me on track, I should've done that the first time, for some reason I was just assuming the PSU was near silent and it must've been the CPU fan. I opened it up again, unplugged everything, and sure enough, the general fan whir/hum noise was barely any quieter and I still heard the high-pitched tone as well....seems like it's almost entirely the PSU, and my three case fans and the CPU fan all appear to be pretty quiet. I'm surprised I still heard the fan whir so prominently. My PSU is a Silencer 610 from spring 2008. I thought it only had the one 80mm rear fan, I wonder why it's so loud. Is there anything else inside that would generate that type of noise? And for the high-pitched noise, it doesn't exactly sound like the whine of a dying component, it is very faint, but noticeable enough to be annoying and to be heard from the next room if you listen. I could maybe try to get a warranty repair on it, or maybe I'd be better off shopping for an ultra-quiet PSU. I'd be interested in doing that to see how quiet I can get this system now that I see how much sound the PSU is generating.

 

[mfenn]

Ahh, the old Silencer, the most, erm "optimistically" named PSU ever made. Any modern design PSU that uses a single large 120-140mm fan should be quieter. The Seasonic S12II's in particular have a reputation for being quiet, check out the 520W model for your system.

As for the high-pitched noise, that is probably coil whine. It's common with the RoHS-compliant solders in use nowadays. If you can find the chip that is producing it (push lightly with a pencil eraser), you can paint its edges with clear fingernail polish to get rid of the noise.

 

[antef]

The Seasonic looks good. I was looking at SPCR's recommended PSU list - interested in the fanless Seasonic X-400, but I don't know if 400W is enough if I plan to get a Radeon 7850 or 7870. The X-650 (and more recently I suppose, the X-560/660 etc.) seem the best as they are higher output than the X-400 but can still run their fans in a very quiet mode or not at all below 20% load. However, the X-560 is more than twice the price of the S12II.

For the coil whine, are you talking about chips in the PSU, or could this be any chip such as on the motherboard? I don't recall hearing this sound with my old system with this same PSU, but maybe I just wasn't listening for it or the fans were louder.

 

[Zap]

My PSU is a Silencer 610 from spring 2008. I thought it only had the one 80mm rear fan, I wonder why it's so loud.

"Silencer" was a misnomer created by PCP&C who insisted on using 80mm fans, and who also created the myths of single +12v rail being better and modular cabling being bad.

I had a Silencer 610. It was about as quiet as my Antec TP Quattro 850. Which is to say, not very. I do understand many feel that those two PSUs are rather quiet, but they're probably coming from using high RPM CPU and GPU fans and probably couldn't hear the PSUs over those. I was (at the time) trying to build a quiet rig.

 

[mfenn]

The Seasonic looks good. I was looking at SPCR's recommended PSU list - interested in the fanless Seasonic X-400, but I don't know if 400W is enough if I plan to get a Radeon 7850 or 7870. The X-650 (and more recently I suppose, the X-560/660 etc.) seem the best as they are higher output than the X-400 but can still run their fans in a very quiet mode or not at all below 20% load. However, the X-560 is more than twice the price of the S12II.

Exactly. The Seasonic X series are very good, but are also way off the deep end of the price-performance curve.

For the coil whine, are you talking about chips in the PSU, or could this be any chip such as on the motherboard? I don't recall hearing this sound with my old system with this same PSU, but maybe I just wasn't listening for it or the fans were louder.

Any chip, hopefully it is in an exposed place where you don't have to void any warranty stickers to test it.

 

[antef]

"Silencer" was a misnomer created by PCP&C who insisted on using 80mm fans, and who also created the myths of single +12v rail being better and modular cabling being bad.

I had a Silencer 610. It was about as quiet as my Antec TP Quattro 850. Which is to say, not very. I do understand many feel that those two PSUs are rather quiet, but they're probably coming from using high RPM CPU and GPU fans and probably couldn't hear the PSUs over those. I was (at the time) trying to build a quiet rig.

Interesting...so, modular is generally good as well? I remember hearing some people not liking them but I can't remember why...maybe extra stiffness in the cables or extra length in the PSU to handle the rear ports...I don't remember. But, modular certainly seems like it would be a good thing.

Exactly. The Seasonic X series are very good, but are also way off the deep end of the price-performance curve.

Any chip, hopefully it is in an exposed place where you don't have to void any warranty stickers to test it.

Yeah, I will have to do more reading about the exact volumes I can expect from the S12II vs. other offerings. I like the idea of zero noise at low load, but I'm assuming the S12II would still be an improvement in volume over what I have now. But is it a large enough improvement to justify buying a new PSU is the question.

Regarding the coil whine, what type of components could cause it - a chip, capacitor, an actual coil? From searching it seems people tend to complain about this the most with video cards and power supplies. I'm not sure I would be comfortable with the fingernail polish thing. I'll see if I still hear it after getting a new PSU, which I probably won't do until I get the video card.

Thanks!

 

[Zap]

Interesting...so, modular is generally good as well? I remember hearing some people not liking them but I can't remember why...maybe extra stiffness in the cables or extra length in the PSU to handle the rear ports...I don't remember.

Modular is not bad. It was PCP&C spreading FUD. I personally don't really care for modular PSUs because I'd rather not pay the extra money, and if you buy the right wattage PSU for your parts you should be using most of the cables anyways, so what's the point of modular if you end up using most of the cables?

Yes, modular connections add extra length to the PSU.

Extra cable stiffness is from the sleeving used.

Yeah, I will have to do more reading about the exact volumes I can expect from the S12II vs. other offerings. I like the idea of zero noise at low load, but I'm assuming the S12II would still be an improvement in volume over what I have now. But is it a large enough improvement to justify buying a new PSU is the question.

Does the noise from your current PSU actually bother you? If not, then there's no justification to buying a new PSU.

Most people feel that the Seasonic S12-II are quiet enough.

Regarding the coil whine, what type of components could cause it - a chip, capacitor, an actual coil? From searching it seems people tend to complain about this the most with video cards and power supplies.

IDK, could be coils, VRMs, capacitors (more like a squeal). I've also heard about it happening on motherboards, and even a couple rare random reports of SSDs making very slight electronic buzzing. Would take a very obsessed person with golden ears to hear that.

Let me just clarify the "silence" issue. Forget it. Just accept that there can't be true "silence" by the definition of the word. HOWEVER, it is very possible and not very difficult (as long as you aren't like "I want to make SILENT the biggest uber gaming rig with super duper overclock and eighteen GPUs OMGWTFBBQ!!!") to make a system quiet enough that it won't bother you under normal conditions.

To illustrate the point, my computer is within arms reach of me under my desk (overclocked socket 1155, dual GTX 560 Ti, multiple HDDs, 3x case fans, fans on CPU cooler and in PSU) and you want to know what I hear?

I hear the ticking of the clock that is farther away from me. I hear myself typing this message on my keyboard. I hear the wind outside (16MPH according to wunderground.com right NOW). I hear the cars driving by on the NEXT road over from mine. If I stop typing and think about it, I can hear the ringing in my ears. If the central heating comes on, I can hear that.

Want to know what I don't hear? I don't hear my computer. I have not taken any pains to "silence" it beyond choosing parts that didn't run too hot and fans that weren't known to be noisy. I can hear it if I lean over, just the quiet white noise-ish hum of the fans.

Here's the general layout of my desk.

Note that my computer is now different from the one in this picture (as well as a few other details), but is placed in the same location. That's the clock I can hear ticking whenever I stop typing. Here's the current configuration:

Core i7-2600K @ 4.4-4.5GHz-ish
Zalman CNPS10X Flex heatsink with Arctic Cooling PWM fan (heatsink does not come with fan) and fan profile enabled in BIOS
8GB DDR3
Asus P8P67 Pro motherboard
two Galaxy GTX 560 ti in SLI (the dual fan version)
two HDDs, two SSDs, one ODD
BFG EX-1000 power supply
Lian Li PC-8FIR case
stock case fans

 

[mfenn]

Regarding the coil whine, what type of components could cause it - a chip, capacitor, an actual coil? From searching it seems people tend to complain about this the most with video cards and power supplies. I'm not sure I would be comfortable with the fingernail polish thing. I'll see if I still hear it after getting a new PSU, which I probably won't do until I get the video card.

Really it could be anything. A common cause is a chip that is vibrating very rapidly against the substrate of the mobo, which creates a high pitched whine. That's where the fingernail polish essentially works as glue to hold the chip in place. Like Zap though, MOSFETs and caps are also usual suspects. Really though, unless you are really sensitive to the noise (SPCR-caliber), you don't need to worry about it.

 

[antef]

Thanks for all the info. I hear the high-pitched sound but it's not horrible...I won't worry about it if I still hear it after replacing the PSU.

Zap: I'm not focused on modular as there is plenty of space in my case to stash unused cables (no optical drive), but it seemed like most of the higher-end PSUs I was looking at just happened to be modular. The S12II is not, however, and that's fine.

Yes, the PSU is definitely loud enough to bother me, but I wouldn't have realized it without unplugging everything else. Hearing about your setup makes it even clearer to me that I should be able to get this noise down a bit. I won't be obsessive about it and I also prefer to stick to standard parts without going out of my way to silence it especially. Throughout this build I just wanted to pick parts that would lend themselves naturally to a relatively quiet system. As it stands now, I cannot say the same thing that you can about your setup regarding noise. The system is under my desk, looks about as close as yours is, and it is pretty audible without trying to listen for it at all, unless the TV is on loud enough in the other room or music is playing, etc. If the rest of the house is quiet, I don't have to lean anywhere to hear it. It is hard to know how exactly sounds "add up," so I know that what I hear solely from the PSU I can't expect an EXACT drop in that amount of noise when I get a quieter one. However, I felt like I had barely unplugged anything at all when it was the only thing running, which makes me think it is fairly noisy. Really, how loud could three decent 120mm case fans be? My CPU cooler will probably never be as quiet as yours since it's stock, but I am running it at only 1400 RPM. And of course, I don't even have a video card yet. So, hopefully getting the S12II or a similar PSU will get my noise levels down to what you're experiencing, and I'd be happy with that.

Speaking of getting the correct wattage PSU so you don't have a lot of unused cables, what is probably the sweet spot (not too much, not too little) for a system like this? i5 no OC, 16 GB RAM, one SSD/one HDD, no optical drive, three case fans, and eventually a Radeon 7850 or 7870 (I know we don't know exact power figures for these yet). Maybe around 520W like what mfenn suggested?

 

[mfenn]

Speaking of getting the correct wattage PSU so you don't have a lot of unused cables, what is probably the sweet spot (not too much, not too little) for a system like this? i5 no OC, 16 GB RAM, one SSD/one HDD, no optical drive, three case fans, and eventually a Radeon 7850 or 7870 (I know we don't know exact power figures for these yet). Maybe around 520W like what mfenn suggested?

Well, we don't know how much power the 7800 series will draw since it hasn't been announced yet, but I would expect it to be similar to the 6800 series. If that is the case, a 520W is more than sufficient, you can even get by with a 430W on a 6850.

 

[antef]

Great, that will be my range then...thanks!