Need Advice on Computer Upgrade Please !

[LounoM]

I bought my computer 3 years ago, I hand picked each component, ive been pretty happy with it but its starting to show its age now and I basically just want it to be faster, I do A LOT of multitasking, work in photoshop mostly and play games too (Battlefield2142, DarkFall).

I would like to do the best upgrades i can with a budget of 250$ to 450$ max... not sure if buying a new cpu is worth it, i could overclock mine but never done any OC...

Here are my main specs :

Motherboard : ASUS P5W DH Deluxe
CPU : Intel Core 2 Duo 6400 ( 2.13Ghz )
Ram : Kingston KVR667D2N5k2 2x1g DDR2 PC667/PC5300
Graphic Card : NVIDIA GeForce 9600GT (note : this was purchased 1.5 year ago, so not looking to upgrade this )
Hard Drives :
1 x WesterDigital WD2500JS ATA 250GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb
1 x WesterDigital WD2500KS ATA 250GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb
Power Supply : Antec Smart Power 2.0 SP500 ATX P4 500W 20/24Pin
Case : Antec NSK6500 Mid Tour
OS : Vista 32bit, but planning on upgrading to Windows 7 asap ( 22 october ? )

What would be the components to upgrade and with what should i replace them ?

Some of my thoughts/concerns :
1. Will my power supply be good enough for the upgrades ?
2. Since i have 2x1gig of PC667 memory, Is it better to REPLACE with 2x2gig PC800 or to ADD 2x2gig PC800 (6gig total but running at PC667)?
3. Does the Brand of memory matter much ? Do i need to look at that or just find the cheapest 2x2gig PC800 ram i can get ?
4. Will i need to get better cooling for my CPU/Case ?

5. Concerning the Video Card, i bought that one about 1-1.5 year ago or so, I was thinking i should keep it for now as i can still run games decently at 1680x1024, maybe in 1 year id be ready to upgrade that, unless you guys say its a must... Instead of a video card, i was thinking maybe to buy better hard drive, however it seems the better hard drives ( 10k RPM ) are too expensive for the amount of gigs they offer... perhaps i could just buy a third drive, and put my first 2 250gb drives in raid... ive never done that though so not sure how it works or if its worth it, but i need my data to be safe, this computer is for work mostly, but with a decent amount of game playing

Thanks alot for your help !

 

[philosofool]

I think you could definitely make a considerable upgrade with that budget. You will not get a cutting edge system, but you will get something pretty nice.

Unless your power supply seems to be a problem for you, I think it's probably fine. It has ample power for your needs, and you have not been stressing it. Unless it's has a reputation for failure, I would not upgrade it.

4GB of DDR2 800 RAM is less expensive than water. I wouldn't recommend anything less if you're upgrading now. You will need to go to Win 7 64 bit to use all of your RAM and 32 bit will not recognize all of it when you install it, just about 3.3 GB of it. That's fine; it will be there when you upgrade your OS. Brand does not matter much with memory, unless you plan to overclock it, which in my opinion delivers marginal returns. Memory speed does not sound like an issue you will have. Note that you cannot use an upgrade version of Vista to go from 32 bit to 64 bit.

Here's what I recommend for you: get a 500GB HDD, 4 GB DDR2 800 RAM, and an intel q9400 processor. That will cost you about $280. If you want to spend a little more for a 1TB HDD, those are about $90 right now, as opposed to $55. The increased RAM and quad core processor will really improve your multitasking performance. For a little more processing power, an extra $30 will get you a q9550, which has twice the L2 cache of the q9400 and will thus get quite a bit better performance even though it's only 0.17GHz faster.

 

[Brutus04]

Definitely a good call on the DDR2 800 RAM; get at least 4GB, more if your running a 64bit OS. I think I would hang on to your 7200 HDDs and go for the Q9550 if your MB supports it. I agree that the 10K rpm HDDs are expensive however, you may still have some life left in your dual 7200 250S...just be sure to have a backup.
Memory Kit
Quad 9550

That rings in at about $280 plus tax - SHIPPED.

HDDs seem to be getting less expensive so if you want to keep looking for what suits you I would do that. Your MB is a solid foundation for a fun and worthwhile upgrade. All the best.
:beer:

 

[Brutus04]

Sorry for the double post...

 

[LounoM]

Thanks guys,
My mobo can accept Q9550 if i upgrade the bios, but I am wondering if it will trully fully support it ? I mean will it only allow me to use it, or will it actually run like it is meant to run...

Brutus, for the memory you recommended, i did a quick search and found this : http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820227248 almost the same price but instead of 5-5-5-15 timing it has 5-4-4-15 timing... Not sure if this is important ? Also the voltage is a bit higher, instead of 1.8V - 1.9V it is 2.1V ... Maybe G.Skill is a better brand ? Idk.

I dont necessarily plan on overclocking, but i might do it just a little bit... never done it in the past but i always liked to have the option

 

[Lunyone]

Sounds like the q9550 would be the best upgrade you can get without spending too much. Remember to FLASH your BIOS before you install the q9550 (if you go that way). Here is what I'd consider:
* DDR2 800 mHz RAM that runs at stock voltage would be the best bet. Leaves more room to OC when/if you go that route and it also saves some energy too so it'll run a bit cooler than the 2-2.2v sticks.
Here is a couple of 1.8v-1.9v DDR2 800 mHz packs
* q9550 for $220 shipped!
Probably the best CPU you can upgrade too: q9550.
* I'd also consider getting a better cooler. For $32 shipped I'd get an upgraded CPU HSF. There are others, but I think a slight upgrade is all that you need for now to keep the q9550 cooler and quieter.
Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro!

Total ~$325 and quite a good upgrade too. You can upgrade your HD if you like, but you have 2 HD's now and that works better for photoshop and such. You keep your OS and applications on 1 HD and then use the other drive for a scratch drive so you can manipulate your photoshop files faster.

 

[LounoM]

Lunyone, Thanks for the advices, but what is the difference between the 2 DDR2 packs you linked ? they both have the same specs... From the same Brand ( G.Skill ) , but price is different... ?

 

[Lunyone]

Your basically getting a better heat sink on the PI Black ones, which I'd probably get, especially if your going to OC later down the road. The other set will do just fine too. You have to be aware of the heat sinks on the PI Black ones, if you have space issues, so keep that in mind.

 

[elconejito]

LounoM, which version of Photoshop are you using?

If you are on CS3 and don't have any plans to go CS4 (some people skip every other upgrade) then you will want more Ghz rather than more cores. In that case look for the e8400 (assuming your board handles it. I think so since it supports the q9550).

If you are on CS4 or are planning on getting it soon, then definitely go for the quad cores. All of the intel quads perform very nicely in photoshop CS4. Even the lowly q8200 does well, better than any of the dual cores. So if you wanted to spend a few bucks less look at the q8200/q8400, q9400, or q9550/q9650 in order of increasing performance. If you have been using CS4 you will see a BIG improvement just with the CPU upgrade.

Agree 100% with the other guys, get as much RAM as you can. The amount of RAM will make more of a difference than the speed, so 800Mhz is fine.

The CPU and RAM will give you the biggest performance jump.

If you've still got money left over, I'd get either the Western Digital WD6400AAKS (640GB @ $75) or WD1001FALS (1TB @ $95) and use it as your OS/apps drive. Then use your WD2500KS as your storage drive and WD2500JS as your scratch drive. If you have enough RAM to fit your photoshop files in, then the scratch drive isn't that important. If you keep your existing 2GB + a new 4GB fo RAM, totaling 6GB of RAM that should be more than plenty unless you deal with really big files.

EDIT: Make sure you have a good backup plan. Since this is mainly your work computer, you must have a good backup in place. If you don't have one, then put the WD2500JS in a USB enclosure and use that as your new backup drive.

 

[LounoM]

Originally posted by: elconejito
Agree 100% with the other guys, get as much RAM as you can. The amount of RAM will make more of a difference than the speed, so 800Mhz is fine.

...If you keep your existing 2GB + a new 4GB fo RAM, totaling 6GB of RAM that should be more than plenty unless you deal with really big files.

elconejito,
I was under the impression that the best thing to do for me would be to REPLACE and not ADD 4gig(2x2gig) of PC800. Or is this only true if I plan on Overclocking ?

If i do ADD instead of replacing, then shouldn't I get the exact same brand/model as I currently have ? I found on newegg the same 2x1gig at 35$ or even 2x2gig at 65$ ( Here)

I have CS4 but it is not installed yet, I wanted to do a clean OS install and wait until I do my upgrades.

WARNING THE NEXT PART IS UNRELATED TO THIS THREAD TOPIC :
As for my backup plan, I have a separate budget for this, this isnt the main topic of this thread I was going to create a different topic for it but perhaps you might have a solution...

I have a problem currently with how I manage my files. My company consist of 2 people, me and my partner. We work from home most of the time but once in a while we will go work at each other's house or at our offices. We both have a laptop and a desktop. So that is 4 computer that all have the "same" files... Problem is that the syncing of those file is done manually, everytime i want a file i need to transfer it from desktop to laptop and vice versa, sometimes i forget then i have the wrong versions, then if my partner need some files he will have to ask me and if i need to send file to our ftp or through msn, which in general is a pain to do...

I would like somekind of server, ( NAS ? ) which allow me to do this :
- Me and my partner use the server to store all our files.
- The files are backed up on a regular schedule on the server (server has 2 drives?).
- We access our files directly from the server, it appears just like if it is another drive attached on our computer, from windows explorer. ( i think this is called mapped drive )
- If we are within the LAN reach of the server, then file transfer is faster because we use LAN connection, if we are outside LAN reach, we still access the files in the exact same way ( no crappy internet browser view or ftp crap ) but the speed is reduced to the internet connection that is available .
- Transfer speeds in LAN mode and Internet mode need to be as fast as possible, I will have a very fast internet connection at my house soon so the server will probably located here.
- Maybe have some folder in our 4 computers to automatically sync with some folders on the server, so that we dont have to download the files or upload the files, everything is done automatically ???

Not sure if all this is possible, I have no ideal how to set this up... There is still a problem in this setup when dealing with large files without being in LAN, but it would be better than nothing... Anyhow I dont know how to do it, but the point of all this is to make our lives easier, and to have easy access to all of our files anytime from any of our computers, and reduce the number of file being manually duplicated everywhere, this create problem in the long run, we all end up with different version of the files and its just a mess.

 

[elconejito]

First the RAM question... Yes, in general, it is best to have all of the sticks the same speed, voltage, model, and manufacturer. It just leads to overall less problems. However, since your current RAM is 667 and you have an older board which may or may not support higher speeds anyway I figure that you can probably run old + new at 800mhz (or definitely at 667) without much fuss. Worse case scenario, you just don't use the old RAM. If it works, you've got 6GBs. If you were definitely going to overclock, or try and run faster RAM like 1066 then I'd say you really need to keep it all the same. If you have the budget, then go for all new RAM 8GBs. Make sense?

For CS4 DEFINITELY get a quad core. In order of cost -> performance look at q8200, q8400, q9400, q9550, q9650. Assuming your mobo supports all of them. Have a peek at the i5/i7 review that is up on the main AnandTech site and check the photoshop benchmarks.

For your backup plan, I'd say start a new thread, but I'll put my $0.02 out there.
You'll need a fileserver or NAS (which is just a really dumb server). There's probably more than one way to do this, but if I were in your shoes I'd start with a fileserver. You can put one together fairly cheaply, a low-power cpu and mobo, solid PSU, some ram, and a case. You don't need a lot of horsepower just for serving files. I'd go with some flavor of linux (ubuntu, debian, CentOS, etc, etc) and have the drives setup in RAID1 or RAID5. Setup your folders and shares, etc.

If you normally work on the computer, then "backup" to the server you will need some sort of backup program to run on a schedule like every night at 10pm for example. This is probably the best scenario because then you have a real "backup" in the sense of two distinct copies. You will still run into the occasional version control issue.

If you choose to run the files directly off of the server, that will help with version control, but then you only have one "copy" and you will still need a "backup" in the form of an eternal drive or something.

Now, working on the same LAN as the server is no biggie. The hard part is when you are remote at your partner's house or elsewhere. What you want is for it to appear as if you are in the same LAN even when you aren't. The solution is a VPN. You can go the normal VPN route which is a little cumbersome to implement, including getting through firewalls. I use Hamachi, which is a really easy setup and it works through firewalls (at least all of the ones I've encountered). That way you can access the fileserver the same way no matter where you are and not have to deal with FTP or browser view. Hamachi has windows, mac, and linux versions.

 

[LounoM]

It wasnt easy but I did A LOT of shopping ( in montreal ) to find these parts:

· 1. Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive $81+ taxes.

· 2. Corsair TWIN2X2048-6400C4 DDR2-800 CL4 $69 + taxes.

· 3. Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80569Q9550 $249 + taxes.

· 4. ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler Rev.2 $35 + taxes.

Total (taxes included) = ~500$ (50$ above my max budget) BTW this is CAD$


Those are the best prices I could find...
It is cheaper for me to buy these parts at this price locally than to order them online because of shipping/handling fees ( i checked tons of stores online, the prices are better but when it gets to the shipping/handling, cost is always equal or over what i'd pay locally ).

So now I need to reduce costs...

First thing I could cut is the Artic Cooling Fan... that means I could still overclock the Q9550 but the results wouldnt be as good.

Instead of getting the Q9550 I could get the Q9400, it sells for 210$ around here.

Or Instead of a Quad Core, Another option is to buy a E8400 /or E8200 ( 3.0Ghz /or 2.66Ghz 6mb L2 cache, 1333mhz fsb ) , which sells for 185$ /or 137$ around here, I could overclock it aswell.

But if i go with a C2D, then im not sure if it is worth it to get the E8400/8200, I might aswell stay with the current cpu I have ?

Maybe I dont need the Q9550 ... what if i try to overclock my current E6400 ( 2.13Ghz 2mb L2 Cache 1066mhz fsb ) to around 3.0ghz, maybe i can reach that with stock cooling ? ... if i need to i can still buy that 35$ Arctic Cooling fan, and that should be enough for me to reach 3.0Ghz at least... no ? I know there is a "luck" variable in this thought... and I know it wont be a Quad core... but would this be enough to make my computer last until i buy a completely new system ( in about 1.5 or 2 years )

If I save on the cpu I could upgrade the WD hard drive to a 750gb or 1tb model... The 1tb WD Caviar Black is 105$

So these are my options right now... What would you guys do ?

Thanks for the help!

 

[SonnyDaze]

I take it you haven't bought the parts yet just priced them?

Well if you're staying with 775 platform I would go from the C2D to C2Q since you can. Not much difference between the Q9550 and the Q9400 at stock (2.83=2.66). You could get the Q9400 to 3.0 on stock cooling easily. The ACF 7 Pro would be even better. I have a Q9400 @ 3.4 with a Xigmatek s1283. That WD drive you're looking at is nice. Do you need more drive space? (You have 2 drives now with 500Gb space).

Just some thoughts.

 

[elconejito]

Can you see if there are Q8200 or Q8400 available near you? A lot of people look down on them because of the small cache size, but in photoshop CS4 (not CS3), they're quite capable. And you might be able to shave off close to $100 just on the CPU. And it will also run cooler/quieter so you might not need the aftermarket cooler. The Q8200 at 2.33Ghz is already a notch faster than your current CPU plus it has double the cores. Overclock it to 2.8-3.0Ghz and it will be quite an improvement.

Here are some benches from anandtech's reviews
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuch...owdoc.aspx?i=3634&p=11
&
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuch...owdoc.aspx?i=3492&p=13

I compiled some of the results here for the Photoshop tests (time is seconds, lower is better):
Q9650 = 19.4s
Q8400 = 21.8s
Q9400 = 21.9s
Q9300 = 23.1s
Q8200 = 23.7s
E8400 = 28.8s
E6750 = 34.3s

The E6750 @ 2.6Ghz is probably the closest to your current CPU. Any of the quads will be quite an improvement, and you can see there isn't a whole lot of difference among them. Just looking at the e6750 and the Q8200, the Q8200 is a third faster... that's a lot.

I agree that if your looking at the E8400/E8200, you might as well stay put with what you have. You could definitely overclock your current CPU and see how far you can get, but I think you'll be happier with a Q8200 which is $170 at newegg.ca. You might be able to find cheaper elsewhere.

For the cooler, can you find a xigmatek S1283 or Dark Knight? I prefer them to the Arctic Freezer and here at least they are about the same cost.

 

[LounoM]

Alright well I made my choice... I think

I found out that http://www.directcanada.com offers pretty good prices, but what seals the deal is that for orders over 300$ you get free ground shipping + because they are in BC I only have to pay 1 tax(5%) instead of 2 taxes (12.5% if i'd buy localy).

The total is 460$ only 10$ over my budget... althought it was my "Max budget". The only other option would be to get the Q9400 instead of q9550, which would bring down the price to 420$... Do you guys think it is worth it ?

Aside from this dilema, the only real problem is they dont have the ram I want in stock currently : the G.Skill F2-6400CL4D-4GBPK

Ahh Its so hard... I really wanted to respect my max budget for once !

 

[LounoM]

Hmm I googled for "p5w deluxe q9550" and see quite a few people having problems... Apparently because it is 1333mhz ...


Crap... now im not sure anymore.

 

[elconejito]

Originally posted by: LounoM
The total is 460$ only 10$ over my budget... althought it was my "Max budget". The only other option would be to get the Q9400 instead of q9550, which would bring down the price to 420$... Do you guys think it is worth it ?

LounoM, I really think any of the Intel quads would be a significant upgrade for you. (See benches listed above) If you don't want to look at the Q8XXX for some reason (you don't like the letter Q, not compatible with mobo, it's not available where you are), let me know and I'll stop mentioning it, but in your budget constraints it's a very solid choice. Overclock it to 2.8-3.0Ghz and it's a real budget champ.

With the same reasoning, you could easily get the Q9400 (similar max OC speeds to Q8xxx). The Q9550 is worth the cost for performance in some apps/games, just to get that extra "oomph", or the overclocking headroom (3.6+ is possible).

Otherwise, you might as well just get a really good heatsink, OC your current chip as high as it will go and pocket the cash.

 

[LounoM]

elconejito, i dont have any issue with the Q8400 I am considering it, but now the problem is that im not sure about anything anymore...

Q8400, Q9400, Q9550 were my top picks, but now the more i search the more i see some people complaining about issues with the P5w DH Deluxe mobo and some of intel 45nm chips...

Even though all those CPU are officially supported, it seems there are issues... I dont know if it is because of human error or if it is really because of the hardware, so i dont know what to do anymore, i dont think that getting a Q6600 (75nm) would be a worthwhile investment...

from theAsus P5W DH Deluxe FAQ :

Support information for 45nm CPU :
Due to chipset limitation, i975X chipset is not able to support all the features of 45nm CPU. The following is a list of the limitations:
1. VT function does not work.
2. The maximum FSB is capped at 1066MHz.
3. 0.5 CPU multiplier is not supported.
4. L2 cache size is not recognized correctly. However L2 cache is still functioning.

I am not too sure about what these limitation imply and if there are ways to overcome them...

Thanks for helping me out, you guys are awesome... Keep it coming please.

 

[Lunyone]

Have you considered getting a cheaper option?
~$220
Amd Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Quad Core Processor AM3 3.2GHZ 8MB Cache 125W 45NM Retail Box
~$98
Gigabyte GA-MA785GMT-UD2H AMD785G Matx AM3 PCI-E DDR3 Video Sound Glan Crossfirex Hdmi Motherboard

Total ~$318 shipped from Direct Canada website. Now just add 4-8 gb's of DDR3 RAM and all of your current parts and your set. Obviously there are more options to consider too, but this would still allow you to get the upgrade your looking for. You will also get a newer mobo that'll allow you to have more upgrades later down the road.