Need advice on larger car

[IHateMyJob2004]

ES350 is similar size to a Camry FWIW. So is the MKZ

Ya, just noticed that the interior volume of the 350 is less than the Avalon.

Not sure what the pros are vs Avalon.

 

[NutBucket]

Badge...better dealer service?

 

[gus6464]

The Lexus ES is basically a Camry. Not much difference in the platform. The Avalon is more in the GS range.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Loaded Camry: $29,500 .... entry level Avalon: $35,500
$6,000 more. I think the Camry is winning out now. I think the ES350 idea is a bad one.

 

[gus6464]

Loaded Camry: $29,500 .... entry level Avalon: $35,500
$6,000 more. I think the Camry is winning out now. I think the ES350 idea is a bad one.

Also look at the current incentives. I think Toyota right now is offering more on the Avalon than the Camry but in the end the Avalon will still be more. You might just love the Avalon once you drive it though so who knows. Another option is the Accord Hybrid which IMO I think is better than the Camry.

 

[lakedude]

I think it is great that you are looking at hybrids. I've got one and I love it.

The 300 is very nice but as NutBucket said I'd have trouble buying a Chrysler product that wasn't a truck. Plus there is that RWD issue.

Consumer Reports loves the Camry Hybrid. Most other reviewers found the Camry a bit bland.

Most reviewers liked the Accord better than the Camry. I believe the Accord Hybrid is not using Honda's crappy belt and pulley CVT and is using something like Toyota's HSD but the technical details have been hard to come by. Only problem I have with it is that it is brand new and they may not have the bugs out yet.

The Fusion is often said to be one of the best midsized hybrids.

I just saw a Mazda 6 review the called the car practically perfect. Our family has had very good luck with Mazda.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Car & Driver did a comparison of the Fusion Energi Hybrid & Accord Hybrid Plug In -

http://www.caranddriver.com/compari...4-honda-accord-plug-in-hybrid-comparison-test

Edmunds tested all 4 hybrids as well -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMNhrBx6FQ4


As you can see the Fusion Hybrid wins - its the quietest, most comfortable, most engaging to drive.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Went to the car store. Not test drives. Just wanted to look.

First, let me remind you that I have been in a truck for 20 years now. So I am used to it being VERY roomy.

Not sure what is going on Lincoln MKZs should be in the high $30s. The only nearby dealer had sticker prices of $47K on these at the bottom end. Not even Hybrids, they all were priced like this. I didn't even bother going there. Why is this?

Sat in an Impala. My impression of the drivers seat is that it felt cramped. Not in length for my legs but it seemed narrow. Like my legs were unnecessarily getting squeezed. I agree with reviews. That is one hell of a nice looking interior. I also sat in the back seat. This thing is claiming to be a large sedan but there is no way a 6' tall person like myself would want to sit back there. There is not enough headroom. I was being squished by the ceiling.

Then I headed off to Toyota. Sat in the Camry. The total opposite of the Impala. The drivers seat cockpit was much more comfortable. Much better leg room. I sat in the back seat and had no headroom issues at all. However the cars interior appearance is plain ol' boring.

After all this the Impala is off my wish list and the Camry is on it.

I couldn't sit in an Avalon as there wasn't one in the showroom. All agents were serving customers. One did notice me and explained the situation and got my an Avalon brochure. Didn't know Avalons all had sun roofs. My son will love it but to me it's just something else that can break. In the end I am hoping to sit in both the Avalon and Camry and decide then. The $6K price difference is a tough pill to swallow though.

I'll need to figure out how to transport mountain bikes without a truck now. Any advice? Might start a new thread since it is a new topic.

 

[NutBucket]

Trailer hitch + carrier. I don't like trunk mounted racks.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Car & Driver did a comparison of the Fusion Energi Hybrid & Accord Hybrid Plug In -

http://www.caranddriver.com/compari...4-honda-accord-plug-in-hybrid-comparison-test

Edmunds tested all 4 hybrids as well -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMNhrBx6FQ4


As you can see the Fusion Hybrid wins - its the quietest, most comfortable, most engaging to drive.

I have a Ford. I will never again buy a car with a Microsoft infotainment center.

 

[heymrdj]

Went to the car store. Not test drives. Just wanted to look.

First, let me remind you that I have been in a truck for 20 years now. So I am used to it being VERY roomy.

Not sure what is going on Lincoln MKZs should be in the high $30s. The only nearby dealer had sticker prices of $47K on these at the bottom end. Not even Hybrids, they all were priced like this. I didn't even bother going there. Why is this?

Sat in an Impala. My impression of the drivers seat is that it felt cramped. Not in length for my legs but it seemed narrow. Like my legs were unnecessarily getting squeezed. I agree with reviews. That is one hell of a nice looking interior. I also sat in the back seat. This thing is claiming to be a large sedan but there is no way a 6' tall person like myself would want to sit back there. There is not enough headroom. I was being squished by the ceiling.

Then I headed off to Toyota. Sat in the Camry. The total opposite of the Impala. The drivers seat cockpit was much more comfortable. Much better leg room. I sat in the back seat and had no headroom issues at all. However the cars interior appearance is plain ol' boring.

After all this the Impala is off my wish list and the Camry is on it.

I couldn't sit in an Avalon as there wasn't one in the showroom. All agents were serving customers. One did notice me and explained the situation and got my an Avalon brochure. Didn't know Avalons all had sun roofs. My son will love it but to me it's just something else that can break. In the end I am hoping to sit in both the Avalon and Camry and decide then. The $6K price difference is a tough pill to swallow though.

I'll need to figure out how to transport mountain bikes without a truck now. Any advice? Might start a new thread since it is a new topic.

Here's what i've found. Due to the fact MPG's need to be even higher, I've found cars belly pans are even closer to the base of the seat. It lowers overall leg volume considerable. I've never been in a vehicle like my Expedition, except for trucks I test drove. I have never seen a car as room as a truck, ever. And the vertical leg space makes a MASSIVE difference on that.


2013 Crew Cab rear seats:

2014 Chrysler 300:

2014 Toyota Avalon:

2013 Lincoln MKZ:

The Avalon and MKZ are close, but both are luxo cars that have a very high price tag. They both also lack on the vertical space.

You can pretty much choose space or MPG, but you can't have both. Especially not in your price bracket. Highlander Hybrid starts at 30K for an absolute base model, 41K for a limited 28/28 mpg. Base model RX350 hybrid starts at 40k, 450h is 47k (32 city, 28 highway).

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I'll add the Honda Accord to the list.

 

[heymrdj]

I have a Ford. I will never again buy a car with a Microsoft infotainment center.

Year? Updates? I have Sync, love it way more than Uconnect I have it in my Dart (snappier and more useful items like App link). Sync 2 and Uconnect 2 here for 2014/15 look interesting.

All the infotainments suck if you're comparing them to computers, none of them are that good yet. So if you go in wit that expectation, you'll fail.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

All the infotainments suck if you're comparing them to computers, none of them are that good yet. So if you go in wit that expectation, you'll fail.

iDrive/Mercedes Command are quite good. All of the touchscreen ones are garbage.

Mouse>touchscreen always.

 

[heymrdj]

iDrive/Mercedes Command are quite good. All of the touchscreen ones are garbage.

Mouse>touchscreen always.

Didn't like iDrive at all, one of the biggest downfalls of the car when I tested a 335ix. I do like Mercedes Command, but I'm still more preferenced to Uconnect and MFT. Touchscreen in the road field of view is safer.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

Didn't like iDrive at all, one of the biggest downfalls of the car when I tested a 335ix. I do like Mercedes Command, but I'm still more preferenced to Uconnect and MFT. Touchscreen in the road field of view is safer.

Use it enough and you don't need to look at the screen. I can do almost everything without taking my eyes off the road. It looks sharp, no lag at all, intuitive, large high res screen, etc. You can either use the touchsensitive mouse to draw a shortcut or use the voice to get to the screen then use memory to go from there.

MFT is a jonky laggy mess, uconnect I've never used but its still touch screen. Both my VWs had a touchscreen navi and i prefer this arrangement much more.

 

[lakedude]

Trailer hitch + carrier. I don't like trunk mounted racks.

Agreed, I don't like roof mounts as well.

Add a trailer and you can haul stuff from Home Depot as well, just like a truck except with more comfort and higher gas mileage.

The bikes can also go on a trailer, which might be more convenient. I put sailboards on a trailer before I had a truck, worked just fine.

Beware of cheap trailers with crappy off sized bearings and hard to find parts. I suggest a "RED" trailer...

http://www.redtrailers.com/ShowTrailer.asp?id=3

 

[bguile]

One more vote for Fusion Hybrid.

 

[gus6464]

If you go for the Fusion good luck getting anywhere near the stated MPG as Ford loves to over inflate the crap out of their MPG claims. Also resale will be miles better on the Accord and Camry.

 

[LTC8K6]

If you go for the Fusion good luck getting anywhere near the stated MPG as Ford loves to over inflate the crap out of their MPG claims. Also resale will be miles better on the Accord and Camry.

IIRC, Ford fixed that, at least somewhat.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...to-be-modified-to-boost-mpg-in-real-world-use

 

[A5]

I'll say that Toyota is offering crazy incentives right now.

The USAA car-buying service is showing me ~$23,500 on a Camry Hybrid XLE (no options selected, $29,200 with every box checked).

The base Avalon Hybrid is $32,000 through the service as well.

Even if you don't have access to these kinds of things, it shows there is a TON of negotiating room in their prices right now.

FWIW, the Accord Hybrid is at sticker (because it's brand-new) and the Fusion Titanium Hybrid is showing $28,600 before options (though it has a much higher level of equipment than the Camry XLE).

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I read what Toyota cars typically go for in my area.

The base Avalon Hybrid is $35,500 and the average selling price is about $2K less.

 

[A5]

Well, if you put in the work, you should be able to beat the average.

Just giving you some data to work with - the numbers from these services are usually a good idea of where you can get them with minimal effort.

 

[sontakke]

I thought anybody is able to take advantage of USAA service; they provide some loopholes which allows you to become member without any real service member relationship.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I swear new car prices today make me think that people are dealing with monopoly money. I guarantee if new cars today were sold by cash only that you'd see much cheaper cars on the road. It's easy to sign for but if you had to take 35k out of your savings and plop it down you'd cry when you handed it over.