Need cpu to run Java.

NervousNovice

Member
Apr 15, 2004
166
0
0
I wrote a Java applet that simulate some siuations. I need to run it over and over again to get some statistics of the result (say 15,000 times).

Is AMD or Intel better in this kind of computation? I obviously don't need a good video card, but do I need more ram? Or is such computation task the sole responsiblity of the cpu?

Thanks.
 

carlosd

Senior member
Aug 3, 2004
782
0
0
In simulation and test enviroments, AMD CPUs tend to have a better response. But should make a deeper research.
 

aka1nas

Diamond Member
Aug 30, 2001
4,335
1
0
Almost definately the AMD, only because I don't believe there is a SSE-optimized JVM. More than likely, the kind of problem you are doing is something that is fpu or alu intensive, and not memory bandwith intensive. It would help if you gave us specifics, though.
 

Shenkoa

Golden Member
Jul 27, 2004
1,707
0
0
I need a proc for gaming

AMD FANBOY - AMD IS THE BEST

I need a proc for multitasking

AMD FANBOY - AMD IS THE BEST

I need a proc for Java

AMD FANBOY - AMD IS THE BEST



Ok, here it is unbiased.

AMD if you somehow find a use for 64 Bit
AMD for math related
AMD for gaming
AMD for budjet
Intel for memory bandwidth related
Intel for software - this includes Java
Intel for multitasking

I am not sure what would be a better choice for you, it depends on what program you are using. Most app based tests run faster on Intel P4 based machines. Keep in mind if you want a machine quick, Intel chipsets are much better then VIA/Nvidia/SIS Chipsets, better ram compatibility. If you go AMD, make sure you look in the mobo manual PDF for RAM that will work.
 

meksta

Senior member
Jul 24, 2001
252
0
0
does it matter? java runs in a virtual machine. So it should be equal.

If you software uses any LONGs, I would say get the Athlon64 because java can run in 64bit mode
 

epsilon9090

Member
Sep 4, 2004
144
0
0
Yes, I was going to ask this, why do programs like firfox take awhile to load while on p4 systems it loads so fast/
 

aka1nas

Diamond Member
Aug 30, 2001
4,335
1
0
Originally posted by: meksta
does it matter? java runs in a virtual machine. So it should be equal.

If you software uses any LONGs, I would say get the Athlon64 because java can run in 64bit mode

It still matters, as eventually the CPU does have to process something. I.E. if the algorithm you are doing is heavily FPU dependent, then even if its interpreted you will still have to perform floating point operations. All the JVM does is make it so you don't have to recompile for each hardware and software platform you want to run your program on.

Also, you still have to be running 64-bit XP or linux to use any 64bit extensions AFAIK.
 

Punamo

Senior member
Jan 28, 2001
302
0
0
When it comes to Java, first make sure you're using the latest JVM. Java 5 a.k.a Java 1.5 is out and from my tests it's at least 10% faster over 1.4.2 (witch is already fast).

Since it's an applet, if it's not security and data sensitive why don't you make it publicly accessible on a web page and have AT'ers run and post the results here. Make sure you put in some counter/timer on the app, otherwise no one would be able to tell you accurately how fast it runs.

 

Burbot

Member
Jun 26, 2004
58
0
0
Java code in general has lots of runtime checks sprinkled all over it, and those are potential branch mispredictions gnawing on heels of your CPU all the time. So I would expect Athlon or Pentium M to perform better then P4 on Java code, and out of P4s, Northwood would probably better then Prescott. Of course, you should probably benchmark different kinds of processors yourself.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: Shenkoa
I need a proc for gaming

AMD FANBOY - AMD IS THE BEST

I need a proc for multitasking

AMD FANBOY - AMD IS THE BEST

I need a proc for Java

AMD FANBOY - AMD IS THE BEST



Ok, here it is unbiased.

AMD if you somehow find a use for 64 Bit
AMD for math related
AMD for gaming
AMD for budjet
Intel for memory bandwidth related
Intel for software - this includes Java
Intel for multitasking

I am not sure what would be a better choice for you, it depends on what program you are using. Most app based tests run faster on Intel P4 based machines. Keep in mind if you want a machine quick, Intel chipsets are much better then VIA/Nvidia/SIS Chipsets, better ram compatibility. If you go AMD, make sure you look in the mobo manual PDF for RAM that will work.

Pull you head out intel fanboy/ AMD dominates memory scores. AMD dominates all compiling. I'll give you limited multitasking but only under two tasks requiring full CPU load. And even say you forgot encoding thier alright. But AMD dominates everything else. Why is this so hard for the Intel fanboys to accept?

Oh and you're not in Kansas anymore toto, AMD is a expensive or more than intel. You just get more for the $.



Exhibit
 

ludditeTx

Junior Member
Oct 13, 2004
3
0
0
You need to give more information about your code to give solid answers.
Coding for performance is a skill, and coding for Java performance is a very unusual skill. It can be done, but there is a lot of mis-information and opinion around.

$ for $, the difference that one CPU will have over the other is likely to be minimal (within 30%) unless you are using very specific extensions that have been optimized for one CPU. I wouldn't even begin to worry about such tiny performance gains if you have control over the code. Improving the code will win every time, and the CPU will not matter.

You'll probably get more impact from:
1. Rewrite (in a simple minded way) into C/C++, or do native code compilation [under 1,000%]
[This rules out applet behavior]
2. Apply a profiling tool (google, there are several), and rewriting the bits that account for most run time, [over 1,000% improvement, but often more]
3. Redesigning the algorithm used to be more efficient. [probably 10,000% improvement, especially if combined with 2].

These are typical numbers, YMMV, and may even be much bigger. Hardware differences are almost 'noise' compared to 2 or 3.

If performance matters do 3; if you are planning to run 15,000 times, there are likely plenty of ways to make things MUCH faster.
Of course, improving the software is more like hard work, and maybe less fun, than throwing money at the hardware
 

aka1nas

Diamond Member
Aug 30, 2001
4,335
1
0
ludditeTx has some good points. Also, I would ask if your java app is single-threaded or multithreaded and if so, to what degree?
 

Platinum321

Senior member
Nov 1, 1999
486
1
0
p4 would be your choice. For compatibility, multitasking, and just about anything else. Leading edge games are more dependent on gfx cards then anything else.
 

Lithan

Platinum Member
Aug 2, 2004
2,919
0
0
Originally posted by: Shenkoa
I need a proc for gaming

AMD FANBOY - AMD IS THE BEST

I need a proc for multitasking

AMD FANBOY - AMD IS THE BEST

I need a proc for Java

AMD FANBOY - AMD IS THE BEST



Ok, here it is unbiased.

AMD if you somehow find a use for 64 Bit
AMD for math related
AMD for gaming
AMD for budjet
Intel for memory bandwidth related
Intel for software - this includes Java
Intel for multitasking

I am not sure what would be a better choice for you, it depends on what program you are using. Most app based tests run faster on Intel P4 based machines. Keep in mind if you want a machine quick, Intel chipsets are much better then VIA/Nvidia/SIS Chipsets, better ram compatibility. If you go AMD, make sure you look in the mobo manual PDF for RAM that will work.



Umm, no. Amd beats intel in most business apps. About the only ones intel even competes in are SSE3 and/or HT optimized.
 

InlineFive

Diamond Member
Sep 20, 2003
9,599
2
0
Originally posted by: Shenkoa
1. AMD if you somehow find a use for 64 Bit
2. AMD for math related
3. AMD for gaming
4. AMD for budget
5. Intel for memory bandwidth related
6. Intel for software - this includes Java
7. Intel for multitasking

1. AMD will have more 64-Bit apps in the future, the main reason there are none right now is that Microsoft hasn't chosen to release a 64-Bit version of Windows. For most of the consumers out there this is a big factor since so many of them use Microsoft software. This makes this an unjust accusation in my mind.
Link to CNET: Microsoft Delays Windows x64

5. Not necessarily. The new Socket 939 processors (which are now just as much or less then their Socket 754 counterparts) are capable of just as much bandwidth as the Intel DualChannel Chipsets (6.4GB/s total if you care). However, the Athlon64 has the edge as the memory controller is on the processor die and access times to the memory are drastically reduced.
Link to Lost Circuits: Athlon64 Memory Controller
Link to The Tech Report: Athlon64 (on this review pay attention to the FX scores as these reflect the newer Socket 939 processor scores)
Link to DigitLife: Facts & Assumptions about the Athlon64

6. Where is the proof of this? From what benchmarks I currently see both processors are about on par with each other. Granted, both have their advantages though.
Link to Anandtech: The First 939 CPUs, SYSMark Performance
Link to Anandtech: The First 939 CPUs, Business Benchmarks
Link to Anandtech: The First 939 CPUs, DivX Encoding
Link to Anandtech: The First 939 CPUs, DirectX 9 Game Performance
Link to Anandtech: The First 939 CPUs, Professional 3D Rendering
Link to Anandtech: The First 939 CPUs, Professional Workstation Results
Link to PCHardware: Athlon64 3800+, System Performance Benchmarks
Link to GamePC: Athlon64 3500+, Synthetic Benchmarks
Link to Anandtech: .09micron Athlon64s, General Performance (if you look here the 2.2Ghz A64 beats the 3.6Ghz P4, nice eh?)

7. By this I presume that you mean Hyperthreading. If you look at the above links you will see that if you implemented Hyperthreading on Athlon64s they would steam past the P4s because their core is better designed. And as stated in an above post, Intel processors only pull ahead in some applications because of extreme optimizations for their core.

I'll expect an outcry of AMD Fanboyism about this post but it's inevitable.

Cheers! :beer:
 

Mik3y

Banned
Mar 2, 2004
7,089
0
0
Originally posted by: epsilon9090
Yes, I was going to ask this, why do programs like firfox take awhile to load while on p4 systems it loads so fast/

because you're lying? if you are talking about hyperthreading, you should know taht hyperthreading does not make a cpu run faster. it only allows for better multitasking.
 

carlosd

Senior member
Aug 3, 2004
782
0
0
Originally posted by: PorBleemo
Originally posted by: Shenkoa
1. AMD if you somehow find a use for 64 Bit
2. AMD for math related
3. AMD for gaming
4. AMD for budget
5. Intel for memory bandwidth related
6. Intel for software - this includes Java
7. Intel for multitasking

1. AMD will have more 64-Bit apps in the future, the main reason there are none right now is that Microsoft hasn't chosen to release a 64-Bit version of Windows. For most of the consumers out there this is a big factor since so many of them use Microsoft software. This makes this an unjust accusation in my mind.
Link to CNET: Microsoft Delays Windows x64

5. Not necessarily. The new Socket 939 processors (which are now just as much or less then their Socket 754 counterparts) are capable of just as much bandwidth as the Intel DualChannel Chipsets (6.4GB/s total if you care). However, the Athlon64 has the edge as the memory controller is on the processor die and access times to the memory are drastically reduced.
Link to Lost Circuits: Athlon64 Memory Controller
Link to The Tech Report: Athlon64 (on this review pay attention to the FX scores as these reflect the newer Socket 939 processor scores)
Link to DigitLife: Facts & Assumptions about the Athlon64

6. Where is the proof of this? From what benchmarks I currently see both processors are about on par with each other. Granted, both have their advantages though.
Link to Anandtech: The First 939 CPUs, SYSMark Performance
Link to Anandtech: The First 939 CPUs, Business Benchmarks
Link to Anandtech: The First 939 CPUs, DivX Encoding
Link to Anandtech: The First 939 CPUs, DirectX 9 Game Performance
Link to Anandtech: The First 939 CPUs, Professional 3D Rendering
Link to Anandtech: The First 939 CPUs, Professional Workstation Results
Link to PCHardware: Athlon64 3800+, System Performance Benchmarks
Link to GamePC: Athlon64 3500+, Synthetic Benchmarks

7. By this I presume that you mean Hyperthreading. If you look at the above links you will see that if you implemented Hyperthreading on Athlon64s they would steam past the P4s because their core is better designed. And as stated in an above post, Intel processors only pull ahead in some applications because of extreme optimizations for their core.

I'll expect an outcry of AMD Fanboyism about this post but it's inevitable.

Cheers! :beer:

Sorry, intel fanboys.

:laugh:
 

Adn4n

Golden Member
Aug 6, 2004
1,043
0
0
Originally posted by: Mik3y
Originally posted by: epsilon9090
Yes, I was going to ask this, why do programs like firfox take awhile to load while on p4 systems it loads so fast/

because you're lying? if you are talking about hyperthreading, you should know taht hyperthreading does not make a cpu run faster. it only allows for better multitasking.



Ok here's my own little benchmark.

Step1: Double Click on Firefox....Instant appearance...wow
 

Lithan

Platinum Member
Aug 2, 2004
2,919
0
0
Originally posted by: epsilon9090
Yes, I was going to ask this, why do programs like firfox take awhile to load while on p4 systems it loads so fast/

Umm. Theres a setting to load firefox automatically when starting windows to improve initial load time. It has nothing to do with pentiums or athlons.
 

batmanuel

Platinum Member
Jan 15, 2003
2,144
0
0
Originally posted by: Lithan
Originally posted by: epsilon9090
Yes, I was going to ask this, why do programs like firfox take awhile to load while on p4 systems it loads so fast/

Umm. Theres a setting to load firefox automatically when starting windows to improve initial load time. It has nothing to do with pentiums or athlons.

Whenever I open up Firefox, I can hear my hard drive thrashing during the pause while it is loading, so I suspect the slowdown is from it accessing the disk rather than because of CPU limitations.

 
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