Need Hardware for PC -- Office Machine / 5 yr life

[Corey0808]

A client of mine is looking into getting a desktop machine for his office. He said he would like to have the machine last 5 years if possible. What kind of hardware would you recommend purchasing now with the thoughts that it could last 5 years (even though I think that is a bit unreasonable)??

I know the first question is going to be how much is the budget, but lets think at this time about no budget. With that in mind it HAS TO BE REASONABLE.

Thoughts? Thanks.

 

[NuAlphaMan]

Well, with not much to work with, you can put together almost anything and it will last..... What type of things will your client be doing with this PC? Is he only going to running office apps? Again, just about anything you give him will keep him running for a good amount of time. If he's not doing things like OCing or gaming then you can give him a "nice" build and make him happy.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Dell with a 5-year warranty?

They're finally starting to discount core 2 systems like the Dimension 9200.


Or for "no budget" how about a sempron system from outpost.com for $230? They have a new brand-x and a refurb compaq at that price, though odds of either lasting 5 years without replacing any part is low. Nothing else mechanical lasts that long with zero maintenance.

 

[Corey0808]

Originally posted by: NuAlphaMan
Well, with not much to work with, you can put together almost anything and it will last..... What type of things will your client be doing with this PC? Is he only going to running office apps? Again, just about anything you give him will keep him running for a good amount of time. If he's not doing things like OCing or gaming then you can give him a "nice" build and make him happy.

My thoughts were putting together core 2 duo system with a relatively cheap 7900 series nvidia card. Something that will run well for his office apps, yet at the same time it should prepare him for Vista because I would think XP end of life would be in the next 5 years.

For an office machine that is running office apps like Quickbooks, Word, Excel Outlook and a few other sparse apps do you think a mirrored RAID would be good, especially since my client doesn't have a dedicated backup system besides a flash drive.

I know it's hard to build a system for a 5 year life time but I have to come up with something.

 

[pkrush]

For that kind of thing, I'd get a Core 2 Duo, 4 gigs of RAM (what standard systems will probably be running by then), EVGA (for their lifetime warranty) 7900gs for the HDCP and dual link DVI, Zalman VF900 and Scythe Ninja to replace the stock cooling (main reason is because tiny fans spinning at high speeds tend to fail fairly quickly), Antec p180 case, 2x 500ish gigabyte drives in RAID 1, 1-2 larger drives for extra storage and backup potential (maybe Ghosting the RAID 1 to the secondary drive every week or so, since RAID doesn't protect against viruses or deleted files). Also, get a nice big LCD (23+ inches): it'll impress them a lot more than how fast the computer is.

 

[Corey0808]

Originally posted by: pkrush
For that kind of thing, I'd get a Core 2 Duo, 4 gigs of RAM (what standard systems will probably be running by then), EVGA (for their lifetime warranty) 7900gs for the HDCP and dual link DVI, Zalman VF900 and Scythe Ninja to replace the stock cooling (main reason is because tiny fans spinning at high speeds tend to fail fairly quickly), Antec p180 case, 2x 500ish gigabyte drives in RAID 1, 1-2 larger drives for extra storage and backup potential (maybe Ghosting the RAID 1 to the secondary drive every week or so, since RAID doesn't protect against viruses or deleted files). Also, get a nice big LCD (23+ inches): it'll impress them a lot more than how fast the computer is.

Although I do agree with some of your choices I think it's a little bit over the top for an office machine. This is something that has to stay reasonably priced, yet be able to last. I know that is kind of an oximoron but it's something I have to try and hit. I was thinking about the Core 2 Duo, maybe 2GB of RAM not 4 and a low end 7900 graphics card. I think the 500GB drives might be a little large as well, this machine will only store office files like .xls and .doc so I don't see them filling that up in 5 years time.

 

[Blain]

A 7900 series for an office machine???? :shocked:
Save some money and drop down on the video card. Spend it on PS and HD redundancy.
RAID 1 and an extra drive for weekly or monthly backups.

Unless he constantly upgrades his software or constantly buys new titles, don't bother with Vista-proofing his rig.
* Strong UPS
* High quality power supply
* Redundancy
* Sweet monitor

BTW, Even 2GB of memory is still "a little bit over the top for an office machine", unless he does business for Pixar...
1GB is fine.

 

[Corey0808]

Although I do agree Blain, but I'm trying to look 5 years out. 1GB isn't going to be the norm 5 years from now. I would want to say 2GB might be.

With that aside I'm having real issues trying to find a Core 2 Duo MB that provides a decent set of features for a reasonable price (i.e. prob $100 or less). I have two options, build my client a system for around $1000 (maybe a little more) or recommend an off the shelf solution (ala Dell). I think if I can find the motherboard I should be all set with the rest of the hardware.

Also, why don't you think I should bother "Vista-proofing" his machine? I imagine he will be moving towards it in the future, especially as support for XP ends.

 

[sniperruff]

get him a dell and clean it out every year. it'll last him 10 years.

 

[Corey0808]

what do you mean by "clean it out" i.e. dust? lol

 

[Corey0808]

I would still like to at least price a custom built system, but the motherboard seems to be the hurdle for me right now. I don't know what the best chipset is for a decent price.

 

[Blain]

When you're struggling with price for an "office machine"...
1. Go with Dell and be done with it. Start with a Precision 390 base and add on from there.
2. Install something like GoBack in case he screws up the OS somehow.
3. Buy an external HD for weekly or monthly backups.

 

[Corey0808]

Blain, I suppose you are right, but I would still like to price out a custom built system. I just don't know what chipset is good for a C2D that is not out of this world expensive.

 

[Corey0808]

After a quick look this is what I put together:

Intel BOXDP965LTCK $119.99
Core 2 duo E6300 Retail $185.00
Mushkin DDR2-667 1GB $81.99
Seagate 7200.10 200GB $77.99
NEC ND-3550A $29.25
Antec SLK1650 $69.99
FSP Group AX400-PN $41.50
ASUS EN7300GS $57.99

For a grand total of $663.70

Still need a mouse, keyboard and monitor. As well as Windows XP and Office.

I don't think that's too bad.. Comments?

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: sniperruff
get him a dell and clean it out every year. it'll last him 15 years.

Fixed.

If people weren't so stupid and go so easily caugh up in the hype of product launches, I'd be still seeing PII/PIII systems in offices today. C'mon guys, how intense is a spread sheet, writing a memo, or creating a database of 200 employees? Sure the last one may seem a bit intensive, but they did all of these things on computer from 15 years ago with out issue. If people didn't litter their systems with so much spyware, and other useless crap, they wouldn't feel the need to upgrade their systems in the first place....

Unless the employee is doing autocad, gaming (which he shouldn't), Video production, or HUGE DATABASE manipulation (over 100K people or items or what ever) then I don't see the need for a "Core twoo duo!!".. Anything from the last 5 years should do, only thing I'd worry about is the HDD failing in one of those systems. Pickup an old system from anywhere, change out the HDD and tell him it's new, I bet he wouldn't notice a difference. ;P

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: Corey0808
After a quick look this is what I put together:

Intel BOXDP965LTCK $119.99
Core 2 duo E6300 Retail $185.00
Mushkin DDR2-667 1GB $81.99
Seagate 7200.10 200GB $77.99
NEC ND-3550A $29.25
Antec SLK1650 $69.99
FSP Group AX400-PN $41.50
ASUS EN7300GS $57.99

For a grand total of $663.70

Still need a mouse, keyboard and monitor. As well as Windows XP and Office.

I don't think that's too bad.. Comments?

You know what I find the most ironic? The people outfitting for an office machine always get machines that cost like $1000 or even $600 in this case, while the poor 16 year old gamer is begging in another thread on how to make him self a $300 gaming system :laugh: I think what it comes down to is people who know/think their work is really important will spend more money on their systems even if unnecessary while the 'gamer' will try to get by with as little as possible when it really ought to be the other way around...

 

[pkrush]

Change the case, maybe get the Antec NSK4400 with 380 watt power supply to save some money (although with Antec's capacitor problems lately, it might not last 5 years). Definitely get 2 gigs of RAM, and I'd consider changing the 7300gs for MSI's 7600gt with HDCP (the one with the dual slot cooler)not so much for the graphics power, just because he'll need it for any HD content (and because that cheap card steals system memory). Also, definitely get a second hard drive for backup purposes.

 

[Operandi]

As long as you don't buy cheap crap and cool it properly 5 years is no problem.

Get a quality PSU, no Antec's. A 330 watt S12 would get a great choice; other wise FSP (non AX line), or Enhance are good as well.

Get a good motherboard; Asus (most of the time), MSI and AOpen typically use higher quality caps that should be good for 5-10 years+. The same can not be said for the budget brands.

Use passive cooling where it's appropriate; on the northbridge and video card if you don't use integrated video. Those small fans are prone to fail and just another unnecessary source of noise.

Get a case with good air flow that won't get clogged full of dust. InWin and Antec both make solid cases with 120mm fan mounts and unrestricted intakes and exhausts.

 

[Mark R]

I don't really see why you want to vista-proof an office PC?

Is his business going to change so much in 5 years that he won't be able to use Win XP, and Office 2k3? Is he going suddenly to need Vista's Aero theme, or HD video?

Trying to 'future-proof' a PC is expensive, and is unlikely to be successful. He would likely save considerable money by aiming for a 3 year life time, and upgrading at that point (if it is even necessary)

Where I work, we've still got a few Win98 and Win2k machines. When the PCs break, they get replaced by new WinXP capable ones - but the software we need to run is the same and runs as well on the old W98 ones as on the new ones.

Other things to bear in mind - noise can be distracting in an office - high speed fans are undesirable. Similarly, if you can keep power consumption down it will make the office environemtn more comfortable by keeping the temperature down.

I think RAID-1 would be a reasonable purchase. It raises the price by about $80 - but if a drive breaks, then it means that he doesn't need to get an emergency technician to come out, reinstall his system and restore is backups. Instead a drive could be ordered an installed out of business hours. Of course, RAID isn't backup - so he still needs an easy to use backup system.

You are probably best off going for a big OEM - like Dell. Afterall, their primary customer base is offices - so you'd think they know what a business customer needs. However, if you want to build something yourself, then I'd suggest something like the following:

CPU: AMD Sempron 3400
Mobo: Asus M2NPV-VM
HD: 2x Seagate 200 GB in RAID-1
External HD: Seagate 200 GB Pushbutton backup drive
Memory: 1G DDR2-667 (any big brand, e.g. crucial, mushkin, etc.)
PSU: Get a decent 400W suuply (e.g. Enermax, FSP, Sparkle, etc.).

The Asus mobo has integrated nForce video - this should be overkill for a business PC, and saves the cost, heat and noise of a high-end graphics card.

I've deliberately specified a massive overkill PSU - I've found that PSUs tend to die relatively quickly compared to the other parts of a PC - probably because they operate at very high temperatres, and the capacitors operate under high stress. An overspecified PSU will have loads of load and thermal margin - which is essential if you are planning a long life, especially if the PC is in an area where dust build up is likely to be a problem.

Other things to consider - a high quality surge protector and/or a UPS (a dedicated surge protecter usually has a lot more protection than a budget UPS).

 

[Corey0808]

I just wanted to say thanks for all the comments. It's funny though, there doesn't seem to be a mid-ground here. People either say get something really expensive (i.e. Core 2 Duo) or get something cheaper (i.e. Sempron).

On a side note this machine will most likely contain a database of 3000 customers.

 

[Blain]

The Register: October 1, 2001...
"Athlon XP pricing is killing some system builder support"

Five years later and an XP 1800+ will still run the office applications that your client uses. :laugh:

 

[Mark R]

Originally posted by: Corey0808
On a side note this machine will most likely contain a database of 3000 customers.

Such a small database doesn't require any special hardware. You will be able to work with it perfectly adequately with any 1 GHz (or more) CPU, and any modern harddrive will provide adequate capacity.

You need to consider what exactly he will be doing with the PC in choosing the specifications.

If this is a typical office PC, which will be used for e-mail, web, letters, billing, and a customer/stock database, possibly expanding into web-design, or printing photos - then even the lowest-end new PC you could get today would handle the task.

If the office work includes design work (e.g. CAD, etc.) or requires work with large databases/spreadsheets (many tens of thousands of entries), or graphics work (photography, etc.) then a more powerful PC may be desirable.

There is absolutely no point getting a game card (GeForce 7900) for a business PC, unless you are going to be playing games. If you need 3D acceleration for business, it is usually for design software - and a card optimised for the task would often be a better purchase (e.g. Quadro or FireGL).

Similarly, consider the need for a dual core CPU. Is a business PC going to be used for encoding video, or rendering 3D graphics? Or is it going to be used for heavy multi-tasking? (e.g. photoshop, access, word all simultaneously). If it's only going to get occasional multitasking then why go to the expense of a dual core?

Don't forget that business computers need to work - they're tools. You don't need the latest and greatest version of windows - you just need one that works and is stable and secure. If the software they are using to start with works fine, then the chances are (unless there is a change in the business) that it will still be fine 5 years down the line.

If you are concerned about WinXP being end-of-life, then that is a reasonable concern. However, MS have traditionally offered basic support (and critical updates) for their OSs for a period of 5 years after they were made obsolete. E.g. Win98 support was terminated in 2005 (5 years after WinME and 2k came out).

 

[vailr]

Get a rental or pre-owned system from Rent-a-Center, a Goodwill Store, or someplace, until the January/February 2007 time frame, when Vista is released.
DX10 video cards should also be out by then.

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: Corey0808
I just wanted to say thanks for all the comments. It's funny though, there doesn't seem to be a mid-ground here. People either say get something really expensive (i.e. Core 2 Duo) or get something cheaper (i.e. Sempron).

On a side note this machine will most likely contain a database of 3000 customers.

Yea, thats not very intensive at all. Just pick up what ever is the cheapest, if that means looking in a dumpster, ebay or goodwill, get that. But if you're going to go the cheap route, at least be %100 sure that you don't have cheap components such as the motherboard.

If the system you pickup is proprietary, make sure it has a decent motherboard and runs smoothly, 1GHZ is fine but two 1GHZ machines from two different manufacturers even after a fresh install won't perform the same, which is why some people think 1GHZ is painfully slow. I'd avoid athlon based systems from this era due to the poor chipsets associated with AMD at the time. This search may take a bit more time than just searching newegg but you'll save tons of money this way.

Or..

Look on FS/T forum for an Athlon XP what ever system with a board that has Nforce2 based chipset. Those should be super cheap...

 

[Maximilian]

Although i agree with the people saying athlon XP is enough, and older hardware is enough, theyre right, but you can get newer better performing hardware for the same price usually, and replacement parts will be cheaper and easier to find. Just piece together a sempron build and it should be fine.