Need help to diagnose a problem on my father's computer.

[Le Québécois]

About 10 months ago I built a computer for my father using a mix of old and new hardware.

Here's a list of what was used:

1-From my old computer that never crashed once in the 3 years I used it prior to building his:

-Intel Core i5 750
Was overclocked for the fun of playing around with it a little but spent 99.99% of its time at stock speed.

-EVGA P55 FTW

-Noctua NH-U12P

-2 x 4 GB of G.Skill Ripjaw Z(or x) F3-12800CL0-4GBXL

-Antec P280

2-Bought new to complete the computer:

-Corsair TX750 psu

-Asus 7790 directcu ii

-Asus DVD drive

3-Taken used from his old computer:

-Western Digital Blue 500GB

The OS used is Windows 7 64 bit.

Now, here's a description of the problem:

The computer freeze from time to time, on average 6-7 times a month, when it's NOT really being used. I say in average because sometimes it's 5 times in a week and other times it's not going to crash for a month. When I say it crashes when it's NOT being used I mean it most often crash when going on standby, either when the screen goes black or when the screensaver(random pictures) has been on for a while, probably freezes just as it's going on standby. It will also crash less often, but still, when my father is browsing the web, email or reading the news, nothing more CPU intensive like videos(youtube) or music(webmusic)*.

I know it DOES NOT crashes when he's really using his computer as in, playing 3D games(my father can play quite a lot of games, from FPS to RPG to strategy games, something I'm guessing very few 64 yo men do), or doing more CPU/RAM intensive work such as working on pictures with Photoshop. I also found out that when doing my tests(more on that later) it would never crash. As one might expect, those tests were using the hardware near 100%.

I ran multiple tests, including but not limited to:

-Prime95, all 3 tests, ran for more than 24h each on multiple occasions.

-Memtest.

-Various Unigine benchmark running for 24h to test the video card.

-HD Tune PRO for the HDD.

-The WD diagnostic tool.

None of these were ever able to find(or cause) any problem or crash.

I tested with other parts, taken from my own computer or stuff borrowed from friends, one by one, for almost everything. The problem is still there. The only parts I wasn't able to replace for testing were the Mobo, CPU and HDD because I don't have any around that I can use to test and I'm not willing to spend money on new hardware unless really needed.

So there I am, I don't know what to do now. It seems between the mobo, cpu or HDD. Since my computer never crashed once with that same CPU and mobo, I'd bet it's the HDD but I'd like to be sure before buying new hardware.

Also, before I forget, everything that came from my old computer wasn't moved to another case or reinstalled(physically) so the mobo, cpu, ram and heat sink are exactly as it was when it used to be my computer.

Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance,

Le Québécois

PS: I know some of the part from my old computer are less than 3 years old(ram and case) but installing them didn't make my computer less stable than it was.

 

[code65536]

What are these freezes like? Is there a BSOD? Or is it just a black screen?

Depending on what the exact nature of this freeze is, the following may or may not be applicable: My desktop had a problem where the GPU (AMD) would sometimes not properly return from a long idle, resulting in a black screen and no response (it looks and feels just like a freeze, but I am able to recover from it by forcing a reset of the driver by logging in using Remote Desktop to force a session change). I suspected the GPU driver, so I filed a bug report with AMD a few months ago, and they finally fixed it in their latest beta driver (well, at least the changelog claims that it's been fixed and I hadn't had a problem with it yet since installing the beta driver).

 

[homebrew2ny]

Sounds like something going haywire when the HDD goes in to idle mode (or trying to return from it). Perhaps a option adjustment in the HDD power management is in order?

 

[denis280]

Western Digital Blue 500GB

Got this problem once with WD blue

 

[VirtualLarry]

AMD driver bug. I had problems with the PC not waking up from mnitor standby when under a heavy GPU load, when I had a pair of 7790s in the rig. I would recommend a different GPU.

 

[lakedude]

Change the Window's standby mode? Just turn it off if you are not using it?

I've never had much luck with sleep or hibernation. Now I either let my computer stay on and fold or just shut it off. That half dead crap never works correctly.

 

[Le Québécois]

Change the Window's standby mode? Just turn it off if you are not using it?

I'll try it but if it works, it's not a diagnosis or a real solution, it's more of a temporary repair. I'd like to find a way to identify the defective hardware.

 

[Le Québécois]

Got this problem once with WD blue

The exact same problem? If so, how did you diagnose it? How did you repair assuming you didn't just change the HDD.

 

[code65536]

AMD driver bug. I had problems with the PC not waking up from mnitor standby when under a heavy GPU load, when I had a pair of 7790s in the rig. I would recommend a different GPU.

Methinks updating to the latest beta driver would be less drastic.

 

[Le Québécois]

What are these freezes like? Is there a BSOD? Or is it just a black screen?

Depending on what the exact nature of this freeze is, the following may or may not be applicable: My desktop had a problem where the GPU (AMD) would sometimes not properly return from a long idle, resulting in a black screen and no response (it looks and feels just like a freeze, but I am able to recover from it by forcing a reset of the driver by logging in using Remote Desktop to force a session change). I suspected the GPU driver, so I filed a bug report with AMD a few months ago, and they finally fixed it in their latest beta driver (well, at least the changelog claims that it's been fixed and I hadn't had a problem with it yet since installing the beta driver).

From what he told me, and from the few times I saw the computer in that state, it's never a BSoD, it's always (what I'm assuming) the "last" image seen on the monitor:

-Black screen when my father is going back to his computer after a while and it was standby.

-One random picture from his screen saver, once again, usually when my father is going back to his computer after a while and it was standby.

-Email, one of the many windows' cards games, etc... It's the only time his computer freezes when he's using it.

Now, as for the "AMD" driver problem you and at least one other made reference too, the first video card installed and tested with this computer was an nVidia card. The problem was there long before I installed any AMD driver on his computer. And before anyone ask, I made sure I completely uninstalled everything nVidia when I installed the AMD card.

As I said in my first message, I swapped every pieces of hardware one at the time to test and try to diagnose the problem, with the exception of the mobo, cpu and hdd for which I have no replacement to test with.

 

[lakedude]

One thing I like to do when troubleshooting is to try and determine if the issue is hardware or software. This is easily done by running a different OS like Linux from a live CD (which requires no installation to the hard drive).

If the system works fine with one OS and not another, the problem is most likely software.

If the system has similar problems with 2 completely different operating systems, the problem is most likely hardware.

I like Puppy Linux or Fat Dog Linux for such things.

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=puppy

 

[Le Québécois]

One thing I like to do when troubleshooting is to try and determine if the issue is hardware or software. This is easily done by running a different OS like Linux from a live CD (which requires no installation to the hard drive).

If the system works fine with one OS and not another, the problem is most likely software.

If the system has similar problems with 2 completely different operating systems, the problem is most likely hardware.

I like Puppy Linux or Fat Dog Linux for such things.

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=puppy

I'll talk to my father about this idea. Problem is, he's using his computer every day and I'm not sure he'd be able to learn how to use linux... I tried to make him use open office(he used MS Office for years at work) and in the end, he bought MS Office because he couldn't work on open office without getting angry at his computer after more than a few minutes.

The other problem with this suggestion is that as I said above, sometimes it will not crash for weeks so even if I do convince him to use Linux for a few day, no crash might just mean it wouldn't have crashed on Windows either.

I'll wait and see if someone comes with "more practical" idea but I'll keep this one in mind, thanks.

 

[lakedude]

My i5-750 with G. Skill ECO RAM has been rock solid BTW.

Did you do a fresh install of Windows after you mixed all those parts together?

 

[Le Québécois]

My i5-750 with G. Skill ECO RAM has been rock solid BTW.

Did you do a fresh install of Windows after you mixed all those parts together?

When I first built this computer, there was of course a fresh install of windows. Since then, no as the only different hardware that needed drivers was the video card for which I made sure to remove every trace of the "old" one when changing.

Now, it's been more then 10 years since I worked in a computer shop... but to my knowledge, changing the PSU or RAM does in no way modify the OS so a new install wouldn't be needed.

 

[denis280]

The exact same problem? If so, how did you diagnose it? How did you repair assuming you didn't just change the HDD.

After trying everything.all checkup.the problem on mine was mecanical.and yes i did change it and all problems when away

 

[brett_stevens]

I would take a look at that hard drive. Manufacturer diagnostics?

If not that, suspects are PSU and RAM in that order.

 

[Le Québécois]

I would take a look at that hard drive. Manufacturer diagnostics?

If not that, suspects are PSU and RAM in that order.

Already ran the manufacturer diagnostic tool, also ran HD Tune PRO. As for the PSU or the RAM, as stated in my first message, I've tested the computer with different hardware, meaning a different PSU and different DIMMs, and I still have the same problem.

Right now, I'm trying to figure out a way to pinpoint the problem without having to buy new hardware for what I don't have in excess to test the computer with, meaning HDD, CPU and mobo.

 

[Le Québécois]

After trying everything.all checkup.the problem on mine was mecanical.and yes i did change it and all problems when away

So even with the mechanical problem, the diagnosis tools didn't find anything? If so, it's interesting to know because right now, all the different tools I've tried tell me the drive is fine.

 

[denis280]

So even with the mechanical problem, the diagnosis tools didn't find anything? If so, it's interesting to know because right now, all the different tools I've tried tell me the drive is fine.

right on.then got fed up and put a new one in.and also mine was still under waranty.so i rma the drive.and WD send me back a new one.telling me the drive was defect.

 

[Le Québécois]

right on.then got fed up and put a new one in.and also mine was still under waranty.so i rma the drive.and WD send me back a new one.telling me the drive was defect.

Ok thanks, I'll talk to him about all of this, it's his computer after all, but it looks like I'll end up buying a new HDD for him, or at least, try to borrow one so I can test that theory.

Thanks a lot. In the meantime, if anyone reading this has other suggestions or ideas, please leave a comment, I'll come back every two days or so to read.

 

[Le Québécois]

Ok thanks, I'll talk to him about all of this, it's his computer after all, but it looks like I'll end up buying a new HDD for him, or at least, try to borrow one so I can test that theory.

Thanks a lot. In the meantime, if anyone reading this has other suggestions or ideas, please leave a comment, I'll come back every two days or so to read.

I didn't have the time to find a drive to borrow yet to test the theory but my father just told me that in that last week or so, the computer crashed 3 or 4 time while he was watching HD video using VLC.

I'm still going with the HDD theory but I was wondering if this would give an idea to some of you on what is the source of the problem as in, is it possible it's not the drive after all? The source of those videos is his HDD... but still, doesn't hurt to ask.

 

[sm625]

Maybe the motherboard is having trouble sourcing a stable voltage for speedstep. It might not be able to reliably output lower voltages, ie around 1.15V. Disable speedstep, make it so your voltage never changes. Also try disable Turbo,C3,C6, and most of all LLC. Actually you might want to turn off LLC as a first step....

 

[C1]

What you are experiencing is one of the reasons why, any machine I build for myself, is never just thrown together all at once. It is instead, "build a little, then test a little".

Try this.

Download SoftJock's free "MDIS" (My Disk is Spinning - http://softjock.com/mdis.htm ) and set it to once every minute and see what happens.

Other things to try:

- Uninstall Windows Components (you can always reinstall them)

- Reassigning some of the interrupts and/or swapping PCIe cards to use different slots.

In general, the procedure is to just keep removing things from the system until it the issue resolves, then carefully add stuff back. Ive had cases when it was just the order in which stuff was installed that made a difference (usually the upfront fundamental drivers like chipset management, sound or video components).

 

[ControlD]

Since you believe this might be related to the PC going into a low power state, have you tried generating a powercfg report to see if Windows if having problems with some particular piece of hardware or driver? I have been able to fix a lot of sleep / hibernate issues using powercfg reports.

There are a ton of options, but start with a simple "powercfg /energy" from a command prompt and then take a look at the generated report (I think it is called "energy-report.html" but it might be a xml file instead). See if there are any errors reported.

 

[Virgorising]

How are the temps in yr dad's system?

Have you run Whocrashed?

http://www.resplendence.com/whocrashed

Learned about this right here via Denis in Canada. Not sure why eveyrone isn't recommending it in such as this situation.

I wouldn't try to force him away from Windows if he don wanna. I also run W7 64-bit and I luv it more than any previous OS.
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PS, Course, my mom (and too many friends) have macs. I am tired of hearing all of them go on and on about them.