Need help with HDV cam usage...and requirements to edit the vids...

[Goosemaster]

1. need to do many college-sponsored-event videos for the entire college.
2. they are going to let me borrow a HDV cam...I think this is it Canon HV10 and will be using many DV cameras as well for multiple angles etc. I will be editing it all in native format to keep it simple and then probably down convert everything to 480p for DVDs.

I realize that many of these consumer cameras don't have a full frame-sized cmos sensor and was wondering, in terms of horsepower, what I will need to edit the HDV this has. I will probably be using one of these:

athlon64 3000+ 1GB ram gforce 6200 (vegas)
mac mini 1.66 cd 2GB ram (finalcut express)

(at least 1+TB of storage)


OR

a mac pro quad or eight core c2duo with liek 4GB ram...not sure about that one.
(not sure about storage)

My question again is, can the two former machines even handle the video that this pumps out (1080i? ~1440x800?). Also, what should I expect in terms of storage requirements. I know the answer for DV, but hot for HDV

I am strictly a DV person in actual use (not the BS or meaningless numbers I know) and was hoping someone could chime in


Thanks


keep in mind that I am used to GREATLY exaggerated specs and am expecting ~800p....that's why I was stupid enough to even mention that mac mini

 

[Goosemaster]

SO I JUST SAW THE SAMPLE FOOTAGE FROM THE HV20 CAMERA (LOOKS TO BE THE SAME)

OMFG:Q

CRAP..my stuff isn't going to cut it (literally)...

 

[nero2]

HDV is a similar bitrate as standard DV, so from a storage standpoint you're looking at the same as with DV. The exception to this would be if you are going to be using an intermediate format for easier editing, in which can you're storage requirements go up by a factor of at least 5. HDV uses interframe compression, so when editing in its native MPEG2 format the computer needs to do more work as it has to generate each frame. Transcoding the HDV format to an intermediate format such as the one the Final Cut uses takes time and more space, but eases the burden on the computer and makes frame-by-frame cuts easier.

Any of the computers you listed will be able to edit and play back HDV footage with litte problem. The first two shouldn't be too terrible when it comes to editing, but they will be *terribly* slow when it comes to render times.

EDIT: I just loaded up some HDV 1080i (1440x1080) footage from a Sony FX1 into Premiere Pro CS3 and on my system it plays back fine, but is only able to render at ~15fps. This should give you an idea of just how long render times can be when working w/ HDV.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: nero2
HDV is a similar bitrate as standard DV, so from a storage standpoint you're looking at the same as with DV. The exception to this would be if you are going to be using an intermediate format for easier editing, in which can you're storage requirements go up by a factor of at least 5. HDV uses interframe compression, so when editing in its native MPEG2 format the computer needs to do more work as it has to generate each frame. Transcoding the HDV format to an intermediate format such as the one the Final Cut uses takes time and more space, but eases the burden on the computer and makes frame-by-frame cuts easier.

Any of the computers you listed will be able to edit and play back HDV footage with litte problem. The first two shouldn't be too terrible when it comes to editing, but they will be *terribly* slow when it comes to render times.

EDIT: I just loaded up some HDV 1080i (1440x1080) footage from a Sony FX1 into Premiere Pro CS3 and on my system it plays back fine, but is only able to render at ~15fps. This should give you an idea of just how long render times can be when working w/ HDV.

cool...render times aren't too much of an issue...yet

 

[nero2]

1080i footage is cool, because if your final output is SD, you can do 60FPS for slow-mo effects by exporting a sequence of frames and using a combination of Photoshop and Bridge (for batch renaming only, you could use any other batch renaming program). Using batch actions in PS, split each frame into two frames, one with the even fields and one w/ the odds fields. The result is 60 frames per second with a resolution of 1440x590 (for HDV 1080i), but that's still higher than SD, allowing you to make great looking slow-mo.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: nero2
1080i footage is cool, because if your final output is SD, you can do 60FPS for slow-mo effects by exporting a sequence of frames and using a combination of Photoshop and Bridge (for batch renaming only, you could use any other batch renaming program). Using batch actions in PS, split each frame into two frames, one with the even fields and one w/ the odds fields. The result is 60 frames per second with a resolution of 1440x590 (for HDV 1080i), but that's still higher than SD, allowing you to make great looking slow-mo.

cool

 

[gsellis]

The HV20 is nice. Goose, check out DVInfo Net's HV forum for some user specific questions on the camera. It's competitor is the Sony HC5/7 and the HV20 does a little better on the color and has 24p. The HC7 has a couple of extra features (mic in, headphone out, LANC), so it is a tradeoff on what you are doing. A Zoom H4/H2 can make up for that with a little clapper board style action. Check out the above link for what guys are doing with Mini-35's and Primes to get full Hollywood DOF on HV20s.

Never used a Mac. I use a E6600 dual with an ATI 1950Pro 512 and Avid Liquid (soon Pinnacle again). Liquid uses DirectX for render offload. Normal video, like Vegas, require no intermediary render, so it is snappy. My current project is slower because I have used Deshaker heavily, so I have to fuse my M2V after adding effects and bring them back in. I converted it to 1080p30 first, because Deshaker works best with progressive. It does add noise, but it looks better than the original. Scratching your head? Off-road mountain bike video with a helmet cam

Edit - speaking of render times, it took 5 days to do the first pass on 1h 15m for Deshaker's vector analysis on the HDV video.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: gsellis
Scratching your head? Off-road mountain bike video with a helmet cam

dude...oh now you HAVE to post that

thanks for the advice.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: gsellis
Scratching your head? Off-road mountain bike video with a helmet cam

dude...oh now you HAVE to post that

thanks for the advice.

Working on it. I have the HDV edit with the Topo overlay almost complete. I need to D/L my music (using Revostock for Royal Free - $10 a tune). Got a script going for the voice over.

If you want to see some good MTB video in the meantime, check out

Pete Fagerlin

Mountain Bike Bill

Bill is shooting with an HV20 now IIRC. Pete's Norway video is too cool.

 

[Goosemaster]

btw, I finally specs out the editing machine they said I could use on campus....LOFL

they wanted me to edit HDV on a 1ghz g4 with 1GB ram and iMovie 3


:laugh:

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
btw, I finally specs out the editing machine they said I could use on campus....LOFL

they wanted me to edit HDV on a 1ghz g4 with 1GB ram and iMovie 3


:laugh:

You are a college student... You have plenty of free time

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: gsellis

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
btw, I finally specs out the editing machine they said I could use on campus....LOFL

they wanted me to edit HDV on a 1ghz g4 with 1GB ram and iMovie 3


:laugh:

You are a college student... You have plenty of free time

lol....

 

[mruffin75]

I'm currently using an Athlon64 X2 4600, with 2GB editing on Premiere Pro 1.5 with Cineform AspectHD..

The Athlon64 3000 I had before *worked*.. but only with Cineforms' plugin...and it was a bit slow...