Need Help with Parent's computer (Upgrade)

[TurboCooler]

Hello,

While I am newly registered, I have been reading these forums for years.

I am hoping someone can help.

My parents are retired and in their mid to late 60s. My dad loves his computer and is a self taught geek. While most of the things he does are surf the web and watch Slingbox and Netflix on his computer. There is one thing he does the most -- photography -- With that he is big into Photoshop and Lightroom.

My dad insists he wants Windows 10 when it comes around. However, his drives are old SATA II drives and he needs more disk space to even attempt to upgrade.

I was thinking of getting a PCI SATA III card and then upgrade his main hard drive to WD Cavier Blue 1TB Drive. However, I cannot find a review on PCI SATA III Cards that work well.

Whatever solution, I would love to just keep his case to save money.

Any help would be appreciated, thank you

Here is his setup:

HWiNFO64 Version 4.62-2500
DELLT3400 -----------------------------------------------------------------
[Current Computer]
Computer Brand Name: DELL Precision WorkStation T3400
[Operating System]
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional (x64) Build 7601
Service Pack: Service Pack 1
UEFI Boot: Not Present
Central Processor(s) ------------------------------------------------------
[CPU Unit Count]
Number Of Processor Packages (Physical): 1
Number Of Processors Cores: 2
Number Of Logical Processors: 2
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 ----------------------------------------------------
[General Information]
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo E8500
Original Processor Frequency: 3166.7 MHz
Original Processor Frequency [MHz]: 3167
CPU ID: 00010676
CPU Brand Name: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8500 @ 3.16GHz
CPU Vendor: GenuineIntel
CPU Stepping: C0
CPU Code Name: Wolfdale-H
CPU S-Spec: SLAPK
CPU Thermal Design Power (TDP): 65.0 W
CPU Max. Case Temperature (Tcase_max): 72.4 °C
CPU Type: Production Unit
CPU Platform: LGA775 (FC-LGA8)
Microcode Update Revision: 60F
Number of CPU Cores: 2
Number of Logical CPUs: 2
[Operating Points]
CPU LFM (Minimum): 2000.0 MHz = 6.00 x 333.3 MHz @ 1.0000 V
CPU HFM (Maximum): 3166.7 MHz = 9.50 x 333.3 MHz @ 1.1750 V [Locked]
CPU Current: 3158.4 MHz = 9.50 x 332.5 MHz @ 1.1750 V
CPU Bus Type: FSB (QDR)
[Cache and TLB]
L1 Cache: Instruction: 2 x 32 KBytes, Data: 2 x 32 KBytes
L2 Cache: Integrated: 6 MBytes
Instruction TLB: 4 KB Pages, 4-way set associative, 128 entries
Data TLB: 4 MB Pages, 4-way set associative, 32 entries

[Motherboard]
Motherboard Model: DELL 0TP412
Motherboard Chipset: Intel X38 (Bearlake-X) + ICH9R
Motherboard Slots: 3xPCI, 1xPCI Express x1, 1xPCI Express x4, 2xPCI Express x16
PCI Express Version Supported: v2.0
USB Version Supported: v2.0

[General information]
Total Memory Size: 16 GBytes
Total Memory Size [MB]: 16384
[Current Performance Settings]
Maximum Supported Memory Clock: 533.3 MHz
Current Memory Clock: 399.0 MHz (6 : 5 ratio)
Current Timing (tCAS-tRCD-tRP-tRAS): 5.0-5-5-15
Memory Runs At: Dual-Channel
Command Rate: 2T
Read to Read Delay (tRD_RD) Same Rank: 4T
Read to Read Delay (tRD_RD) Different Rank: 6T
Write to Write Delay (tWR_WR) Same Rank: 4T
Write to Write Delay (tWR_WR) Different Rank: 6T
Read to Write Delay (tRD_WR) Different Rank: 8T
Write to Read Delay (tWR_RD) Same Rank (tWTR): 11T
Write to Read Delay (tWR_RD) Different Rank: 5T
Read to Precharge Delay (tRTP): 3T
Write to Precharge Delay (tWTP): 25T
Write Recovery Time (tWR): 14T
RAS# to RAS# Delay (tRRD): 3T
Refresh Cycle Time (tRFC): 78T
Four Activate Window (tFAW): 14T


Row: 0 - 4096 MB PC2-6400 DDR2-SDRAM G Skill F2-6400CL5-4GBPQ -------------
[General Module Information]
Module Number: 0
Module Size: 4096 MBytes
Memory Type: DDR2-SDRAM
DIMM Type: Regular Unbuffered (UDIMM)
Error Check/Correction: None
Memory Speed: 400.0 MHz (PC2-6400)
Module Manufacturer: G Skill
Module Model: F2-6400CL5-4GBPQ
Serial Number: N/A
Manufacturing Date: Unknown
[Module Characteristics]
Module Width: 64-bits
Module Voltage: SSTL 1.8V
SPD Revision: 1.2
Number Of Ranks: 2
Row Address Bits: 15
Column Address Bits: 10
Number Of Banks: 8

 

[LTC8K6]

With a mechanical HDD, I don't think you would notice any difference with it plugged into a SATA 2 port.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Interesting. 16GB of DDR2-800, 4x4GB, on an X38 board. I thought only the P45 would take 16GB of DDR2, for the LGA775.

Anyways, other than the RAM size, that's a fairly pedestrian rig these days.

If you can find the right buyer, those 4GB DDR2 sticks might be worth a small fortune. Enough to buy 2x8GB of DDR3-1600 or faster, and have some left over.

As for your primary question - there is zero utility in upgrading to SATA6G for a mechanical HDD. None. (Well, possibly, if you were using a SATA/SAS expander, and multiplexing a single SATA connection for multiple drives.) There are NO single HDDs that exceed the bandwidth of a SATA2 connection (300MB/sec).

There is some utility to getting a SATA6G connection, if you were to move to an SSD, but for SSDs, SATA is becoming passe, as the newest, fastest, ones are PCI-E / NVMe. Check out the Intel 750 series PCI-E SSDs on Newegg.

 

[LTC8K6]

You could put a 2TB black drive in there with a Core 2 Quad.

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Perform...UTF8&qid=1433211822&sr=1-1&keywords=2tb+black

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0012WDMNC/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

 

[vailr]

Clean install Windows 10 on a 256 Gb SSD, connected to one of the existing Intel SATA ports. There'd probably not be much benefit of adding a PCI SATA III card, with a CPU that old.
Then consider upgrading the rest of the system to an Intel Skylake motherboard, CPU & DDR4, in maybe another 6 to 12 months.

 

[RaistlinZ]

Yeah, throw an SSD in there for the OS, and convert his current HDD to simply storage of photos and whatnot. Even on SATA II an SSD will be like a whole new world for him.

 

[riversend]

OP, what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Create enough disk space to ensure a smooth update to Win10? Improve video editing?

How much is the available budget? When (presumably before 31 July for Win10 release)?

Could you just get an external HDD to offload photos in order to create disk space for Win10?

 

[jae]

Get an cheap old Crucial m4 or Samsung 830 for Win 10. And buy a 2-4TB external hard drive. No point of the PCI card.

 

[ArisVer]

Also recommending an SSD for the operating system, which will appear as an upgrade in your notification area since you are using Windows 7. (Windows 10 is a free upgrade for Windows 7 & 8 users.)
If your mainboard accepts a quad core CPU your father will see a major boost of processing speed.

 

[TurboCooler]

OP, what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Create enough disk space to ensure a smooth update to Win10? Improve video editing?

How much is the available budget? When (presumably before 31 July for Win10 release)?

Could you just get an external HDD to offload photos in order to create disk space for Win10?

Per your question, yes, smooth update to Win10 and improve his Photo editing. Photo and Photoshop is what he does 60% of everyday.

The budget does not matter to much, it will be my fathers day gift to my dad. He does not like it when I spend money on him so I am trying to keep it reasonable. Many of the suggestions here seem to make sense. I may get him an SSD and make his current drive another data drive. He already has several external HDs

 

[TurboCooler]

Interesting. 16GB of DDR2-800, 4x4GB, on an X38 board. I thought only the P45 would take 16GB of DDR2, for the LGA775.

Anyways, other than the RAM size, that's a fairly pedestrian rig these days.

If you can find the right buyer, those 4GB DDR2 sticks might be worth a small fortune. Enough to buy 2x8GB of DDR3-1600 or faster, and have some left over.

As for your primary question - there is zero utility in upgrading to SATA6G for a mechanical HDD. None. (Well, possibly, if you were using a SATA/SAS expander, and multiplexing a single SATA connection for multiple drives.) There are NO single HDDs that exceed the bandwidth of a SATA2 connection (300MB/sec).

There is some utility to getting a SATA6G connection, if you were to move to an SSD, but for SSDs, SATA is becoming passe, as the newest, fastest, ones are PCI-E / NVMe. Check out the Intel 750 series PCI-E SSDs on Newegg.

Regarding the RAM, my dad likes to tinker. He researched all on his own and one Sunday called to say what he had done. since it worked, I did not really looked into it. Seems to have always been stable and worked just fine.

Any suggestion on where to sell the RAM? Seems like and easy thing to do.

Thank you for the suggestion, I will look into the Intel 750 series PCI-E SSDs on Newegg

 

[TurboCooler]

Also recommending an SSD for the operating system, which will appear as an upgrade in your notification area since you are using Windows 7. (Windows 10 is a free upgrade for Windows 7 & 8 users.)
If your mainboard accepts a quad core CPU your father will see a major boost of processing speed.

All I know about the board is that it is a

Motherboard Model: DELL 0TP412
Motherboard Chipset: Intel X38 (Bearlake-X) + ICH9R

I will have to do some research to see what is possible and what the cost of a Quad Core would cost. It is not a custom build so no clue

 

[TurboCooler]

Clean install Windows 10 on a 256 Gb SSD, connected to one of the existing Intel SATA ports. There'd probably not be much benefit of adding a PCI SATA III card, with a CPU that old.
Then consider upgrading the rest of the system to an Intel Skylake motherboard, CPU & DDR4, in maybe another 6 to 12 months.

Sounds like a plan, just need to do some research

 

[riversend]

I agree with vailr. Don't throw any money against the current system that cannot be used later for a more comprehensive upgrade. Lots of 256GB SSDs on sale these days. Check back here for recommendations on which one when you are ready to purchase.

 

[sm625]

Dont bother with trying to get SATA III. It wont provide any noticable performance.

 

[Valantar]

My current system is a socket 775 C2Q Q9450, which is still fast enough for even most games along with my (SATA II-powered) SSD boot drive and 8GB of DDR2-1066. It never feels slow, and the SSD is a HUGE part of that.

Unless you want to spend a lot of money on this and do a full platform upgrade (mobo, CPU, RAM, ++), I'd check if the motherboard can handle a C2Q 9xxx CPU (you can find these quite cheap on Ebay), and add a 256GB SSD. You might need to get a new CPU cooler, but something cheap like a CM 212 Evo would work beautifully. That should hold them over for another few years before you'd need to do a full platform upgrade.

Of course the CPU performance of a new Core i5 or i7 would be miles ahead of an old Core2Quad, but even a C2Q is a major upgrade over an E8500. Plus, you'd save the money needed for a new motherboard and RAM, and the SSD should be fine for whatever upgrade they do next.

Edit: and yes, as has been said by several people here, adding a SATA III card for HDDs will gain you nothing.

 

[mfenn]

There is some utility to getting a SATA6G connection, if you were to move to an SSD, but for SSDs, SATA is becoming passe, as the newest, fastest, ones are PCI-E / NVMe. Check out the Intel 750 series PCI-E SSDs on Newegg.

I don't really see the point of paying over double the going rate for SSDs just to get a device which you cannot boot from on an X38 platform. Any SSD is such a huge jump over an HDD for everyday tasks, that the incremental difference between a SATA and PCIe SSD is minor.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I don't really see the point of paying over double the going rate for SSDs just to get a device which you cannot boot from on an X38 platform. Any SSD is such a huge jump over an HDD for everyday tasks, that the incremental difference between a SATA and PCIe SSD is minor.

I guess I was just thinking, the X38 mobo likely has two PCI-E 2.0 x16 slots. A decent-performing Marvell SATA6G card is going to require PCI-E 2.0 x2, at the least, so why not go all the way for a PCI-E 2.0 x4 SSD card.

Sure, you're right, the X38 board won't be able to boot off of it, but Photoshop should fly.

 

[Valantar]

I guess I was just thinking, the X38 mobo likely has two PCI-E 2.0 x16 slots. A decent-performing Marvell SATA6G card is going to require PCI-E 2.0 x2, at the least, so why not go all the way for a PCI-E 2.0 x4 SSD card.

Sure, you're right, the X38 board won't be able to boot off of it, but Photoshop should fly.

Most end users would hardly notice the difference between a cheap-ish SATA SSD (even running on SATA II) and a PCIe SSD. The difference between these is far smaller than the difference between a HDD and any SSD. Recommending drives that cost (minimum) several hundred dollars for the lowest capacities and give very little added benefit seems meaningless.

 

[ArisVer]

All I know about the board is that it is a

Motherboard Model: DELL 0TP412
Motherboard Chipset: Intel X38 (Bearlake-X) + ICH9R

I will have to do some research to see what is possible and what the cost of a Quad Core would cost. It is not a custom build so no clue

I think that any of the processors listed here will be compatible. They can be found cheap on ebay.

http://ark.intel.com/search/advance... Core™2 Processor&CoreCountMin=4&Bus=1333 MHz

 

[mfenn]

Most end users would hardly notice the difference between a cheap-ish SATA SSD (even running on SATA II) and a PCIe SSD. The difference between these is far smaller than the difference between a HDD and any SSD. Recommending drives that cost (minimum) several hundred dollars for the lowest capacities and give very little added benefit seems meaningless.

:thumbsup: My thoughts exactly.

 

[vailr]

OCZ 240 Gb SSD for $40 (after $80 in rebates):
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...-Details.asp?EdpNo=9562652&sku=OCZ-102558187M

 

[Valantar]

I think that any of the processors listed here will be compatible. They can be found cheap on ebay.

http://ark.intel.com/search/advance... Core™2 Processor&CoreCountMin=4&Bus=1333 MHz

That depends on motherboard/BIOS support, just having the same socket isn't enough. The 130W options, at least, require better power delivery circuits than most motherboards have. Still, the list is an okay starting point - given that the motherboard was updated to support 45nm CPUs.

OCZ 240 Gb SSD for $40 (after $80 in rebates):
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...-Details.asp?EdpNo=9562652&sku=OCZ-102558187M

I'd jump on that if I was in the US - that's a great deal, and perfect for a build like this.

 

[ArisVer]

That depends on motherboard/BIOS support, just having the same socket isn't enough. The 130W options, at least, require better power delivery circuits than most motherboards have. Still, the list is an okay starting point - given that the motherboard was updated to support 45nm CPUs.

I have based this on this page.

http://www.dell.com/us/dfb/p/precision-t3400/pd

The Dell Precision™ T3400 offers incredible scalability and flexibility to help you get the best value for your technology budget. The T3400 supports dual-graphics, Genuine Windows® 7 Professional, up to 8GB1 of 800 MHz ECC memory, quad core Intel® Core™2 Extreme processors and up to four hard drives for a potential 4TB2 of storage. Dell's vision for the scalable business also helps ensure that the T3400 is compatible with the entire Dell product line, integrating seamlessly with your existing IT infrastructure.

 

[Valantar]

I have based this on this page.

http://www.dell.com/us/dfb/p/precision-t3400/pd

Hm. That sure looks promising, yeah. Depends if the C2X models have a different motherboard than the others, but they sure make it sound like a drop-in replacement. Also, on X38 it needs a BIOS upgrade to support the C2Q/C2X 9XXX series as X38 launched alongside the 6XXX series.