NEED SOME LEGAL HELP ON A CAR LEASE PLEASE....

[stag3]

in for update

 

[OdiN]

lol....you guys really think he's going to give an update after the thorough bashing he got in this thread?

 

[phenderson]

UPDATE:


Ok, so I went back on Monday morning, yesterday morning... Got there at 9:00am and let them know,

that my bank would not loan me part of the money. (RULE number 1, as someone else mentioned, Car

finance departments don't like to see you finace a loan for the down payment on a car). It took a

while. I was very nice and polite...I did not show any visible signs of frustration or of being

upset.

I called my bank, at about 8:40am, as I was on my way there, and asked if the folks (I had been in

contact with this dealership for a month, because the car was on order, "no, I did not order the

car, it was already on order, they just put my name on it"), had contacted them, in prior weeks, in

regards to getting $6,000.00 for the difference for the loan. As I was sitting there at the

dealership on Saturday, they told me that they had talked to a certain Loan officer, on my behalf,

and that that loan officer had said "Yes, we can approve him of a loan for that amount". Well

basically they could not, not without me re-applying, and later on in the day, I spoke with the

another Loan officer, who I am very familiar with, and she said that he did not even know anything

about it...

So anyways, after sitting in the waiting room of the dealership for about an hour, I then walked

over to the F & I/Finance Manager's office, over in the other building, and watched him hurriedly

hang up the phone, and then he told me that they were trying to get the rest of the $10K (the $6K)

from the Manufacture's finance department. He told me to take the car, drive around for a couple of

hours, and they would let me know how it goes...

I nicely insisted to both him and the salesman, that I did not feel comfortable driving around in a

vehicle that is not completely mine, and that I did not want to put more than the 55 miles that were

already on it, on it. SO he told me that he would see about getting my car back...

I told him I would wait, and then I took a walk with the salesman, talked pleasantries, and then

explained to him, in a round about way, that I was very honest, in my complete approach to dealing

with them, and that I liked honest people... I felt he was a good guy, but I leave it up to you, the

readers', imagination, about his and the dealership's honesty and integrity...

So we got back, and the FI guy decided to go ahead, after I asked one more time, nicely and with a

smile on my face, for my car back... So after an hour, of them wrestling my car off of the used car

lot, and bringing it back, I drove out of there at about 12:15pm.

Now:

1) They still have both of my checks, which are not post dated (they say that they would mail them

to me, because the checks had already been submitted to some check system, the numbers and the

banking info, and if don't cancel the contract, there would be $90.00 check fee's for both checks,

plus my own fees). Of course, I will put stop payments on the checks...and the money is not there

anyway...

2) They are trying to work out a better deal....



For those of you wondering what the 2 cars are, in question...

1) My car, my original car, is a Fully loaded 2007 Nissan Altima 2.5SL... The payoff is so high

because, I had a 2004 Nissan Altima 2.5SL before that one, and I ran the miles up on that one,

driving back and forth to work, over 200 miles a day, for 10 months. Yes, I realize that I need to

keep a car, and stay in it... I have been trying to do that for a while, but I have been searching

for a really good car to do so. Something that gets excellent gas mileage, like a........

2) 2009 Camry Hybrid...which is what I traded my car in for...



For those of you wondering what the numbers were on the lease contract, let me give them too you....


Gross Capitalized COST = $46,000.00
Capitalized COST Reduction = $ 10,000.00 (this is my deposit money... and for some reason, there is a tax on this money...)
Adjusted Capitalized COST = $36,000.00
Residual Value = $11,000.00
Depreciation and Any Amortized amounts $29,000.00
Rent Charge = $17,000.00
Total Base Monthly Payments = $44126.40


Agreed Upon Value of Vehicle = $30,000.00
Outstaning Prior Credit or Lease Balance = $16,000.00 (THIS NUMBER, SHOULD BE $6,000.00 in

regards to my eventual downpayment of $10,000)
Acquisition Fee = $ 600.00
Gross Capitalized cost = $46,000.00


So all in all, my total amount of payments, would be $48,000.00 (60 payments of $800.00 a month) +

my deposit of $10,000.00, + the $11,000.00 for Residual Value of the vehicle... all of this to the

tone of 12K miles a year...


So for now, I have my own car...
I am going to put stop payments on the checks...
I have told them to try to work something else out, and have indicated that I know what they tried

to do...but that they can clean this up... and get a good name, or I will walk...and not have much positive stuff to say at all. The TCH was a base model unit... and I explained to them, that I was already knowingly giving them the $6K over the factory invoice... (factory invoice for these cars is $25,600.00 for a base model which are discernable by the lack of a power front-side passenger's seat, and lack of options).


I have rounded up the numbers above, greatly, and I have not mentioned the name of the dealership,

or what city it resides in, because, in this day and age, you never know WHO is reading WHAT on the

internet.

 

[OutHouse]

thanks for the update


you need to read this statement until you dream about it


I WILL NEVER EVER EVER EVER STEP FOOT IN A CAR DEALERSHIP EVER AGAIN!!!

 

[OdiN]

wow...

Dude, stick with the Altima, and pay it off. It isn't a lease too is it?

Was the 2004 a lease? Sounds like it. Sounds like you put over 60K on it in an year and that's what screwed you over - you rolled it into the 2007 and that's why you are upside down so bad.

Stick with the 07 Altima. It is a very nice car. Sure a hybrid might bet better mileage, but BAD idea - you will be paying so much more doing this than you will ever save in gas driving it.

 

[vi edit]

Wait. Wait. Wait.

So right now you have a 2007 Altima SL. And was that leased?

What is the actual pay off on that car? Is it $15,000? How many actual miles does it have?

 

[mugs]

OK, let me repeat my previous advice - if you put a stop payment on the checks, you could go to jail. You probably won't, but it could become a real pain in the ass. Writing $10,000 worth of bad checks is not insignificant.

Secondly, what is wrong with your current car that is causing you to trade it in after less than two years? It can't be that you can't afford the payments, because you're going to be paying $800/month for 60 months on this lease. :Q You're just compounding this cycle by rolling more debt into your new cars. You're not going to save enough on gas to make this not be a financial disaster.

 

[phenderson]

OK... I can understand the name calling, but using curse words... is just plain ignorant and idiotic....in fact, calling names, shows your own lack of intelligence. Sort of like calling the kettle calling the pot "black"....


The car I had, was worth $31K when I got it. It was one of the first 07 Nissan Altima's in my state... Of course Nissan will finance you 140% of the the MSRP...and of course, 50K miles later, the car depreciates at a rapid rate.

Because, over the past 3 years, I have been driving 120-206 miles a day, I need something reliable and with a good warranty, not one of the jack-legged warranties and cars that my friends have had... I put over 40K miles on one car, in a year...

Where I live, there are no high-paying IT jobs, so you have to drive either an hour to another city, or an hour and a half, to another city. In fact, there are rarely any Windows or Exchange jobs at all, which is my specialty.

I own a house, and another car (van that my wife uses) and we both work and make very good money. Its just that I spend close to $4000.00 a year in gas, and close to $1000.00 a year in mainteance and oil tuneups for my car....and I like brand new cars...

I have not moved to the city where I work because

1) For a while, my work was all contract work, with no benefits and no job assurance. I now have a job that gives me both, and I have been there for over a year now...

2) The housing market, means, that it will be a while before I can sell my home... and my kids were all in school... and this call goes back to #1.

3) I love my church, they need me....being a small church...


I hope this answers a lot of questions. In some ways, I am very responsible (1 wife, 3 kids, been married for 9 years) and in some ways I am not (new cars... new cars...etc...)


In retrospect, I got help from some of you guys here, on the forums, and I got help from one of my buddies from college, who is a car sales man at another dealership... he told me to simply go in, early in the morning, get my car back, before the sale it or ship it off, and get my 2 checks...

I have been able to accomplish, half of that.

 

[mugs]

OK, the Altima gets 21/29 mpg, and the Camry gets 33/34 mpg. Assume you average 25 and 34 respectively. For every 1000 miles you drive, you'll save $42. After 100k miles, you'll have saved $4235. This is not a good idea.

If you're driving mostly on highways, the difference is much smaller. The jump from 29 to 34 mpg will only save you $2k over 100k miles.

If you're driving 120-200 miles per day, YOU SHOULD NOT LEASE.

 

[vi edit]

The car I had, was worth $31K when I got it. It was one of the first 07 Nissan Altima's in my state... Of course Nissan will finance you 140% of the the MSRP...and of course, 50K miles later, the car depreciates at a rapid rate.

Because, over the past 3 years, I have been driving 120-206 miles a day, I need something reliable and with a good warranty, not one of the jack-legged warranties and cars that my friends have had... I put over 40K miles on one car, in a year...

1) What is your payoff to Nissan on your '07 Altima?
2) How miles does it have?

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: phenderson
I hope this answers a lot of questions. In some ways, I am very responsible (1 wife, 3 kids, been married for 9 years) and in some ways I am not (new cars... new cars...etc...)

You're responsible for buying the new cars too. If you drive so much, buy a reliable used car where the depreciation hit won't be so bad. Learn to do basic maintenance yourself. It's really easy to change your oil and air filter yourself if you want to save some money, especially if you're paying the dealer for service.

I own a house, and another car (van that my wife uses) and we both work and make very good money. Its just that I spend close to $4000.00 a year in gas, and close to $1000.00 a year in mainteance and oil tuneups for my car....and I like brand new cars...

You'll only be using about 25% less gas, so you'll still be paying $3000 per year in gas. They may throw in scheduled maintenance for "free" on a lease, but the money is still coming out of your pocket one way or another. You're just paying for it monthly.

 

[ElFenix]

i hope to god you didn't lease that 07 altima.

Gross Capitalized COST = $46,000.00
Capitalized COST Reduction = $ 10,000.00 (this is my deposit money... and for some reason, there is a tax on this money...)
Adjusted Capitalized COST = $36,000.00
Residual Value = $11,000.00
Depreciation and Any Amortized amounts $29,000.00
Rent Charge = $17,000.00
Total Base Monthly Payments = $44126.40


Agreed Upon Value of Vehicle = $30,000.00
Outstaning Prior Credit or Lease Balance = $16,000.00 (THIS NUMBER, SHOULD BE $6,000.00 in

regards to my eventual downpayment of $10,000)
Acquisition Fee = $ 600.00
Gross Capitalized cost = $46,000.00

that number shouldn't be $6000 because your $10,000 was already accounted for in the Capitalized Cost Reduction.


anyway, you're driving 40,000 miles in a year. DO NOT LEASE A CAR WHEN YOU DRIVE 40,000 MILES A YEAR.

that I was already knowingly giving them the $6K over the factory invoice...

WHY ARE YOU PAYING THAT MUCH FOR A CAR?

you say you want to save gas and maintenance costs but you're actually costing yourself more by paying too much for the camry up front.


now, normally i don't buy into dave ramsey, what with his no bankrtupcty ever and you can't get out of debt without accepting jesus shtick, but you sound like the type of person who needs to abide by his DON"T FINANCE ANYTHING EVER rule. no credit cards, no car loans, nothing (i'm not even sure if he makes an exception for houses).

 

[Uppsala9496]

How many miles a year on this lease? 12,000? 15,000?
And what is the penalty per mile? $0.45?

This could get really ugly.

 

[waggy]

wow i find it hard to believe that they undid the deal. but lucky for you if so.


if you are driving that much gettign a lease is idiotic. you are just going to kill yourself everytime you turn it in.no matter how many times you say ou are responsible you have proven to us you are not.

 

[phenderson]

Originally posted by: mugs
OK, let me repeat my previous advice - if you put a stop payment on the checks, you could go to jail. You probably won't, but it could become a real pain in the ass. Writing $10,000 worth of bad checks is not insignificant.

Secondly, what is wrong with your current car that is causing you to trade it in after less than two years? It can't be that you can't afford the payments, because you're going to be paying $800/month for 60 months on this lease. :Q You're just compounding this cycle by rolling more debt into your new cars. You're not going to save enough on gas to make this not be a financial disaster.

A good question deserves a good answer...

Good questions deserve good answers...

1) The 07 Altima is not a Lease... I traded in a lease vehicle for it because

1b) The 04 Altima Hybrid was a lease, that I obtained to drive around town in, when I had a lower paying job in town. I wanted a better, higher paying job, but in order to get "Big Shop" experience, I needed to go out of town. The 04 Altima was a 48 month lease that sucked up the negative equity from my 02 Altima (I got the 04 because it was a 2.5SL and was nicer than the old Stick Shift 2.5S). So I drove up the miles on the 04 2.5SL driving 206 miles a day. When I hit 46K miles, I got scared and decided to trade it, and its $9000.00 residual in for the 07. All the while, I was on contracts. When I got the 07, I was working in town...but poof, that contract ended abruptly, so I had to take another job in another city...


2) The 07 Altima 2.5SL was not leased... it is a purchase.... I make enough money, to pay off the back end of a lease, and get a car refinanced, within 2 years, but that car needs to hold its VALUE... which Altima's most certianly do not.... When the negative equity of the 04 was rolled into the 07, which I got below MSRP, but above Factory Invoice, that created a nice payment....but like I said before, GOD has blessed me to be able to afford it all...

The 07 IS a nice car (rear-view camera, moonroof, etc...) But, using all of the driving tactics that I can think of, I can only squeeze about 30-31 mpg out of the car on the highway... I am averaging about 480gallons per tank (thats 16.5 gallons before it hits the 3.5 gallon reserve of the 20 gallon tank). That means I go 4 days, and then have to refuel on Friday... and that does not include the days (Sunday, Wednesday, Friday, sometimes Tuesday or THursdays) that I drive in town to work, which means the car's MPG takes a big hit....

A TCH gets about 38-40 on the highway and 38 in the CITY...LOL... I know because back in 06, June Actually, (yes, I was making REALLY good money then), I bought one, fully loaded, from a dealership in the town I worked in...and was paying for that car, and my leased 04 Altima 2.5SL...and my wife's van, and the astronimcal COBRA health care insurance, and the gas, and my house payment, and the 10% tithes for my church, because I made really good money ($39/hour 1099), and I would get 541 miles per tank of gas, from the 13.5 gallons before it hit its own 4 gallon reserve (Camry's have a 17.5 gallon tank). 541/13.5 = mpg... and that was 78% highway at 65-75mph and 22% City driving.

So you do the math... 480mpt on 16.5 gallons of gas, or 541mpt on 13.5 GOG....
It does not make a world of difference if you are driving 20-40 miles a day... but when you are driving 3200 miles a month, and paying $300-400, it makes a world of difference. I would save anywhere from $100-200.00 alone... plus TCH's hold their value really well.


What happened to the 07 fully loaded TCH, that I bought back in June of 06...

1) I did not get the $2600.00 tax credit because I did not owe any taxes... which sucked

2) I loved the Gas Mileage, but the quality of the car, which was shipped from Japan, was crappy... Speakers were not flush, in the front windshield... stuff looked like it was going to pop out any second... Door lines were horrible... so I felt like "Man, I am paying $32K for this car and it looks like crap". Plus, I was 40 pounds heavier, and I felt like the car was two small...AND

3) Finally, I got offered a CONTRACT job, making $40/hour W2, a mile from my house... so I thought "WOW, I know longer need to have 2x cars, and I no longer need a hybrid"... especially since my boss promised me that after 6 months a CONTRACT, he would bring me in fulltime...AND

4) So I drove the car, 72 miles to a Carmax, and sold it, 3 months and 4400 miles later, for the $32K that I put into it.

5)Well of course the company decided to try to sale themselves, and so, in order to make themselves look more profitable, as one of their measures, they cut all of their contractors first, me after 4 months of duty...so close, yet so far away...


I hope this explains a lot....

 

[abaez]

Ok - I've bought three cars before, and all three were paid in cash, so I really know nothing about loans and costs and capitalization and stuff like that.

But $800/month for 60 months? Can't you get a porsche/benz/bmw for that amount? At least here in socal...

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: phenderson
I hope this explains a lot....

Yes, it explains you should never ever ever buy a car ever again. I thought your original predicament was bad but you have NO FREAKING IDEA what you are doing.

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: abaez
Ok - I've bought three cars before, and all three were paid in cash, so I really know nothing about loans and costs and capitalization and stuff like that.

But $800/month for 60 months? Can't you get a porsche/benz/bmw for that amount? At least here in socal...

Not when you keep rolling debt over into new loans again and again.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: phenderson
So you do the math... 480mpt on 16.5 gallons of gas, or 541mpt on 13.5 GOG....
It does not make a world of difference if you are driving 20-40 miles a day... but when you are driving 3200 miles a month, and paying $300-400, it makes a world of difference. I would save anywhere from $100-200.00 alone... plus TCH's hold their value really well.

I already did the math for you. If you're doing this to save money, it's a bad idea. There's a lot more math that could be done, but I showed you that you're going to save $4k tops over 100k miles. But you can't drive the Camry 100k miles, because it's a lease. So you might save $3k over the life of the car. That's if you drive it 75k miles (5 years * 15k miles). Any less than 75k and your savings drops, and any more than 75k and your savings plummets (assuming you have a 15k/year limit).

If you're buying this car to save money, it's a very very bad idea. If you're buying this car just because you want a new car, that's fine - it's your money. Just say you're buying it because you want a new car so we don't have to explain to you why it's a bad idea.

I hope this explains a lot....

Oh my golly it does...

 

[OutHouse]

Because, over the past 3 years, I have been driving 120-206 miles a day, I need something reliable and with a good warranty

wtf?? dude read this


Toyota Hybrid Warranty


Every Toyota Car, Truck and SUV is built to exceptional standards. And that's not idle boasting. We back it up with these Limited Warranty Coverages:

Basic Coverage: 36 months/36,000 miles (all components other than normal wear and maintenance items).

Hybrid-Related Component Coverage: Hybrid-related components, including the HV battery, battery control module, hybrid control module and inverter with converter, are covered for 8 years/100,000 miles. The HV battery may have longer coverage under emissions warranty. Refer to applicable Owner's Warranty Information booklet for details.

Powertrain Coverage: 60 months/60,000 miles (engine, transmission/transaxle, front-wheel drive, rear-wheel drive, seatbelt and air bags).

Rust-Through Coverage: 60 months/unlimited miles (corrosion perforation of sheet metal).



i just dont get your line of thinking. you are going to LEASE a new car for 5 years when the warranty will be blown through in less than a year?

seriously man you are not responsible nor are you capable of making a sound financial decisions.

NEW CARS ARE NOT THAT IMPORTANT. you have no business leasing a car with the amount of miles you put on it. Car leases were made for people like you to get them to buy more car than they can afford. and if i were you i would drive that altima until the wheels fall off it and its paid off. but i guess you love working for your car payments and writing that check every month and being car poor.

yes i say car poor because its obvious you have no savings in case you do need car repairs and you are relying on a warranty to pay for it.

 

[Uppsala9496]

I don't understand why people spend more than $20,000 on a new vehicle. They are just going to lose value.

Maybe that should be your new rule OP. Never finance (spend) more than $20,000 on a car. This way you won't be screwing yourself over too much.

 

[ElFenix]

NOTHING HOLDS VALUE DRIVING 46,000 MILES PER YEAR.


you've rolled two cars in a row that you were upside down on into your current one, and then you attempted to to it a third time! and yet you claim to be responsible and good at buying cars. yes, you're good at buying cars, good at getting screwed in the process.


your altima is getting 29 mpg. lets do the math with a 40 mpg camry, 46,000 miles and $5 gas.

the altima uses 1586 gallons of gas for $7930

the camry would use 1150 gallons of gas for $5750

you agreed that the camry was $30,000, or ~$3500 over MSRP for the stripped model. so you'd already eaten 1.5 years of gas savings even using a high estimate of $5 a gallon. and that's before any mileage charges for going tens of thousands of miles over your lease!

if the dealer has really let you out of the lease on the camry, consider yourself lucky. that camry was an AWFUL financial decision. just TERRIBLE.


KEEP the car you have and PAY IT OFF before you get another car. you really need to change your habits.

 

[phenderson]

Originally posted by: abaez
Ok - I've bought three cars before, and all three were paid in cash, so I really know nothing about loans and costs and capitalization and stuff like that.

But $800/month for 60 months? Can't you get a porsche/benz/bmw for that amount? At least here in socal...

Of course I know negative equity is getting rolled around. I have actually reduced it some... especially, in regards to my wife's car. It was real bad, but we have been paying on it, since we got it in 05...

As I mentioned before...

My goal with the Camry was to lease it for 2 years, and save up the money (Tax refunds, extra paychecks, etc.) to pay down the negative equity in that car, long fast enough to go ahead and refinance it, for a nice loan, through my bank...


On the numbers that I gave above, I exaggerated them some, by rounding up, because, like I mentioned, before, you never know who is reading what and when, on the internet.

From what I can tell, from the contract, it looks like they were trying to apply my downpayment, to the LOAN itself, and not to the car...like they should have

When I purchased my first TCH, my credit was about the same... and they gave me 2 options... OWN the car for $652.00 a month, or lease it, for $575.00 a month, for 48 or 60 months...

It looks like they charged me a boatload for the rental costs of the car, as well as a ghastly depreciation amount ... And instead of subtracting my "$10K" from the Agreed Upon Value of the Vehicle, or at least from the Outstanding Prior Credit ir Lease Balance (there by reducing it down to $6000.00 and making the Gross Cap Cost $36000.00), they moved it outside of the lease, as the amount due....at the signing. Sort of like giving me a discount on the CAR and the taxes, instead of on the PRE-TAXED amount....

Therefore my Gross Cap Cost should be $30,000.00 + $6000.00 and not $30,000.00 + $17,000.00.

This makes a world of difference in the amount of the lease... and even the amount of the loan...

Toyota probably finances 140% like many of the other Manufacturers, and so things could have worked out, differently... but these guys decided to get busy in a nother direction.

they never ever told me my money factor either, but then again, I did not know enough to ask them at that point....

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Uppsala9496
I don't understand why people spend more than $20,000 on a new vehicle. They are just going to lose value.

Maybe that should be your new rule OP. Never finance (spend) more than $20,000 on a car. This way you won't be screwing yourself over too much.

spending $20k on a car is ifne. IF you can afford it. but most people who buy them has a job situation where they can.

but most pay it down or put a big enough down payment to handle it. the op can't.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: phenderson

Originally posted by: abaez
Ok - I've bought three cars before, and all three were paid in cash, so I really know nothing about loans and costs and capitalization and stuff like that.

But $800/month for 60 months? Can't you get a porsche/benz/bmw for that amount? At least here in socal...

Of course I know negative equity is getting rolled around. I have actually reduced it some... especially, in regards to my wife's car. It was real bad, but we have been paying on it, since we got it in 05...

As I mentioned before...

My goal with the Camry was to lease it for 2 years, and save up the money (Tax refunds, extra paychecks, etc.) to pay down the negative equity in that car, long fast enough to go ahead and refinance it, for a nice loan, through my bank...


On the numbers that I gave above, I exaggerated them some, by rounding up, because, like I mentioned, before, you never know who is reading what and when, on the internet.

From what I can tell, from the contract, it looks like they were trying to apply my downpayment, to the LOAN itself, and not to the car...like they should have

When I purchased my first TCH, my credit was about the same... and they gave me 2 options... OWN the car for $652.00 a month, or lease it, for $575.00 a month, for 48 or 60 months...

It looks like they charged me a boatload for the rental costs of the car, as well as a ghastly depreciation amount ... And instead of subtracting my "$10K" from the Agreed Upon Value of the Vehicle, or at least from the Outstanding Prior Credit ir Lease Balance (there by reducing it down to $6000.00 and making the Gross Cap Cost $36000.00), they moved it outside of the lease, as the amount due....at the signing. Sort of like giving me a discount on the CAR and the taxes, instead of on the PRE-TAXED amount....

Therefore my Gross Cap Cost should be $30,000.00 + $6000.00 and not $30,000.00 + $17,000.00.

This makes a world of difference in the amount of the lease... and even the amount of the loan...

Toyota probably finances 140% like many of the other Manufacturers, and so things could have worked out, differently... but these guys decided to get busy in a nother direction.

they never ever told me my money factor either, but then again, I did not know enough to ask them at that point....

I think you play around with the numbers too much and you confused/convinced yourself this was a good idea.

by the way my 2004 Toyota Camry XLE gets 27mpg and i paid 22K for it. It will be paid off in 4 months and ill drive for another 5 years. guess where that money will be going?