Need to get a bigger car...

[Yuriman]

All cars already have 4 wheel traction and 4 wheel braking, it's only putting power on the road that is only 2-wheel. There are instances where you might get stuck without 4WD/AWD, but as long as you're moving it's not really much of an advantage.

 

[nerp]

The Durango still fits the bill. Hehehe. Hate to say it, but it can tow and has tons of room and the mileage is quite good considering. Test drive a new one. And remember, Chrysler's powertrain is still 5/100 right now and they're being very generous with warranty repairs and customer service since they're combating decades of crap much product and the associated bad reputation.

 

[NutBucket]

Yeah, a better warranty doesn't make up for a shitty car

 

[oleguy]

The Durango still fits the bill. Hehehe. Hate to say it, but it can tow and has tons of room and the mileage is quite good considering. Test drive a new one. And remember, Chrysler's powertrain is still 5/100 right now and they're being very generous with warranty repairs and customer service since they're combating decades of crap much product and the associated bad reputation.

I don't know if I can accept that. My uncle has had a few Durangos, and all he does it complain about it. He keeps getting them as, like you said, they have a niche that it fits very well. For him, it's living in a cabin for 6 months of the year that is accessible only by boat or a "road" that was cut halfway to the cabin by mining prospectors and then a log and fill road that my uncle and his neighbor had built for the last mile or so. It could be charitably described as suspension-destroying. Takes about 40 minutes to go the 2.5 miles from the cabin to place where passenger cars can be parked, and there are a few places where low-range 4x4 needs to be deployed.

However, I've had a '99 Dodge Intrepid for 10 years, and the thing has so many electrical gremlins and poorly-thought out design decisions that it's hard to entertain the notion of getting any Dodge product again. I mean, who designs a car that requires a jack or lift, plus removal of a tire, to get the darn battery out? And the '04 Intrepid my wife had before it was totaled and replaced by the Focus was also a joke. And the fit and finish of the interior looked like they had tolerances of +/- a thumb. Not a standard thumb, just the thumb of whoever happened to be working that day.

And just this last month, I was over in CA and we rented a minivan because there were 5 adults and luggage. And while it was impressive how much stuff we could get into it, the Dodge Grand Caravan (didn't see the exact year but my father-in-law knew it was the latest generation because he has the prior generation) did not impress. Its handling was poor, barely barely tapping the throttle squealed the tires, and the fit and finish still looked like tolerances were determined by making sure you couldn't stick your hand through the panel gaps and touch the firewall. Though it probably kept the rain out, though being CA it was impossible to test.

So, unless the Durango has had a recent facelift and Dodge really has done more than hire employees all with the same-sized thumb, it's tough to trust the brand. That's also why I'm leery of Chrysler.

 

[nerp]

It's 100% a different vehicle than what you're referring to. It's now a unibody vehicle based on the Grand Cherokee. And all the cars/experiences you're referring to are very old and not even relevant when you look at the current FCA product line. I understand your leeriness. I had the same feelings but ended up buying a Charger in 2012 and it has been the most reliable and enjoyable car I've ever owned and I've owned plenty of cars in my almost 40 years. Including a new Toyota, several VWs including one I bought new and a couple Fords. When I was young, Ford stood for "Fix or Repair Daily" and buying a new Tempo or Escort off the lot was a gamble. It took ford decades to shake that off. At the very least, test drive one and check it out just so you have a frame of reference.

 

[NutBucket]

And in this forum you'll find another thread about someone's problems with a current gen GC. So really as nice as it is, it's not all that different.

 

[nerp]

And in this forum you'll find another thread about someone's problems with a current gen GC. So really as nice as it is, it's not all that different.

I've also seen people give up on new GTIs on this forum. And someone who needed to spend hundreds on a new lexus. And go to Honda forums and poke around the "problems" threads. Every car maker has issues, especially when they all use the same suppliers who might outsource something like ball bearings to random chinese companies. And let's not get started with BMW. My point is that one anecdotal case doesn't really mean much. What I have observed over the past few years is that all new cars are pretty damn good these days. The difference is that typical problems are forgiven for some brands and used against others depending on where ones loyalties lie. And "my uncle said" "my brother said" etc. I personally wouldn't touch a 99 Intrepid with a ten foot pole, new or used. So I can understand why someone who went through that would be wary of the brand. The same types of experience have ensured that I never buy a VW or Audi ever again. Especially with their track record for poor customer service and refusing to own up to defects and problems that are not the fault of the driver nor wear and tear.

 

[NutBucket]

A bad Honda or a Toyota is an anecdote. A bad Chrysler is expected....

And nobody here claimed BMW makes a quality car that never requires repair.

 

[Yuriman]

nerp, would you buy a 2015 Mini with the intent to keep it for 200,000 miles?

Certainly the average reliability is better, but it's not a level playing field.

 

[nerp]

nerp, would you buy a 2015 Mini with the intent to keep it for 200,000 miles?

Certainly the average reliability is better, but it's not a level playing field.

I wouldn't buy a new mini, but I would expect it to last 200,000 miles, just like any new car off the lot that has been cared for.

 

[oleguy]

The Durango still fits the bill. Hehehe. Hate to say it, but it can tow and has tons of room and the mileage is quite good considering.

Okay, I will grant you this after more research. And for better or worse, the Durango often is in the best of lists from places like Car and Driver or Consumer Reports. Of course, the former is more concerned about things like handling and 0-60 speed and I've yet to find a place that seems to care much about the utilitarian side of an SUV when reviewing or road testing.

That still doesn't discount a minivan, especially since most of them can tow 3,000 lbs or more, which is more than adequate for a small aluminum fishing boat, gear, and kids.

I also noticed the Chevy Traverse as an SUV option. It seems to rate highly and outdoes the Durango for cargo capacity. The biggest ding I can see is that it's still using a six-speed transmission, which seems to hurt its fuel economy compared to other similar-sized cars.

So I guess my question now is are there other three-row SUV options worth considering? The Mazda CX-9 also looked interesting, but it seems to be less inclined to towing and hauling.

 

[NutBucket]

The GM triplets are nice. We owned an Acadia for a couple of years and it was a nice highway cruiser. It was a 3rd vehicle for us so it didn't see much daily use. The interior is cavernous compared to the others in it's class (at least when we were shopping in 2012).

 

[heymrdj]

The current Traverses are great, they really are caverns. I thought about getting one as a replacement SUV as the deals are really good on them since they are so popular. I still think about getting one from time to time, I really could use the utility. But they are definietly overdue for new power trains. GM has focused on their trucks, and alot of their cars, with the new engines. But the cutes are still behind. They are the only ones still using that engine/transmission setup: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_High_Feature_engine#LLT

I understand their fear, they don't want to hurt a good thing. But they could definitely use some powertrain revamping.

 

[ramj70]

Okay, I will grant you this after more research. And for better or worse, the Durango often is in the best of lists from places like Car and Driver or Consumer Reports. Of course, the former is more concerned about things like handling and 0-60 speed and I've yet to find a place that seems to care much about the utilitarian side of an SUV when reviewing or road testing.

That still doesn't discount a minivan, especially since most of them can tow 3,000 lbs or more, which is more than adequate for a small aluminum fishing boat, gear, and kids.

I also noticed the Chevy Traverse as an SUV option. It seems to rate highly and outdoes the Durango for cargo capacity. The biggest ding I can see is that it's still using a six-speed transmission, which seems to hurt its fuel economy compared to other similar-sized cars.

So I guess my question now is are there other three-row SUV options worth considering? The Mazda CX-9 also looked interesting, but it seems to be less inclined to towing and hauling.

We have a 2014 Durgano and absolutely love it. It's very comfortable, excellent interior quality, no cheap plastic. The Uconnect system with the 8.4 inch info/nav screen is very nice. It also has a 7 inch digital gauge cluster that is customizable. Handling and power is very good.

We also looked at the Traverse and Highlander which are both very nice vehicles and definitely something to consider. We went with the Durango because we liked the styling and interior and plus we have a 2013 Dodge Caravan which we very much like so we stuck with Dodge.

I don't think you could go wrong with the Traverse or Highlander either, both very nice vehicles.

 

[bigi]

I own 2 CX-5s AWD.

MPG - Very good/Great. It is not hard to get 30MPG in mixed driving if your foot isn't heavy.

Gorund Clearance - very good for its size one of highest in its class.

2.5L engine is fine and makes CX-5 fun to drive.

The price for middle model - Touring is 25K

2016 Model has been updated with new gizmos and apparently made even quieter inside.

AWD works great in the winter and summer too.

Court hitch is very nice and cheap. I have it on mine + the roof rack.

I'd test drive one. OP - you will like it.

Check the Forrester too and let us know.

CX-5 is a 25K car, which makes it very attractive price wise too.

 

[oleguy]

So I think I've narrowed down my list to the following:

2013 or later Chevy Traverse
2014 or later Dodge Durango
2011 or later Toyota Sienna
2011 or later Honda Odyssey
2011 or later Mazda CX-9

The year cutoff is related to either the most recent generation, or in the case of the Traverse, a lot of items I like finally appeared and/or became standard, or when the Durango got the new 8-speed transmission.

Within this world (three-row SUVs or minivans) is there anything else I'm leaving out? I don't want to go new, but we've had good luck with certified preowned, in at least it meant the original warranty was still in place. I also want to make sure I'm lower than 50,000 miles on the odometer, since I still intend to keep this thing for 8-10 years and I'll be putting 8,500 to 10,000 on the car annually.

 

[nerp]

Isn't the Honda Pilot 3-row? Or did you rule that out?

 

[NutBucket]

3rd row in that vehicle is useless IMHO...but likely not a whole lot different than a CX-9.

 

[Scarpozzi]

So I think I've narrowed down my list to the following:

2013 or later Chevy Traverse
2014 or later Dodge Durango
2011 or later Toyota Sienna
2011 or later Honda Odyssey
2011 or later Mazda CX-9

The year cutoff is related to either the most recent generation, or in the case of the Traverse, a lot of items I like finally appeared and/or became standard, or when the Durango got the new 8-speed transmission.

Within this world (three-row SUVs or minivans) is there anything else I'm leaving out? I don't want to go new, but we've had good luck with certified preowned, in at least it meant the original warranty was still in place. I also want to make sure I'm lower than 50,000 miles on the odometer, since I still intend to keep this thing for 8-10 years and I'll be putting 8,500 to 10,000 on the car annually.

I have a 2011 Toyota 4Runner with 3rd row...the new Highlanders also have 3rd row. The Traverse 3rd row and 4Runner 3rd rows are both just jump seats. When in use, there's very little cargo space if you don't have a roofbox. In our case, we have 2 car seats installed in row 2, so we can really only use one of the 3rd row seats for short trips by entering/exiting through the rear hatch. I am 6'4" and rode in our 4Runner 3 or 4 <5 mi trips last week when we were on vacation (to accommodate 4 adults and 2 children in carseats)

I got the 2011 4Runner SR5 2WD with 3rd row, roof rack, running boards, and aftermarket leather installed for $32k. They are almost cheaper new than used because of the used market around here...

Gas mileage on the 4Runner is 18MPG most of the time....ours isn't 4WD. My cousin has a 2010 Traverse...I think his gas mileage is around the same....it drives like a car and is more spacious than the 4Runner, but not more stylish external....both have cheap feeling radio controls.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I drive an 08 Forester, its got about 110K miles, runs well, I like it. It might be small for your requirements though... Of course newwer model years are quite a bit bigger than my 08...

Have you looked at Ford's Escape? While I think the Forester is superior in all measures, the Escape's seem pretty good too IMO.

That said, I think Outback is going to be your Best option unless you scale up to larger trucks or SUV.

 

[oleguy]

Just wanted to restate my requirements, since they've changed/solidified since I first started this thread:

• Ability to tow a small boat and gear while still being loaded down with the family and a week's worth of stuff (many crossovers either discourage towing or set a very low weight)
• Immediate room for two infant car seats, as I have two on the way, plus a medium-sized kennel
• Cargo space for hauling with just me in the car, things like 8' boards and furniture
• Hwy MPG over 22
• Will last 10 years or about 100,000 miles from today, which includes growing with two kids

The problem I've encountered with most compact/small SUVs and/or Crossovers is that they fall down on the first point. Even if they allow towing (1,500 lbs is the limit for most), they also have a lower GVWR almost entirely taken up by the car. 800lbs beyond that GVW sounds like a lot, but when you have two adults, two small kids, and a pet, you only have another 300 to 400lbs worth of stuff, which is a lot less than it sounds when packing for a week or more to a secluded cabin.

Alternatively, the car is mostly going to be a daily commuter... so I have to balance that with just getting the biggest car I can afford.

 

[BurnItDwn]

FYI, Escape with the ecoboost and a class 2 hitch can tow 3500 pounds.

(my 08 forester can tow 2400, but newwer model years are only 1500)

 

[NutBucket]

Read his requirements. 2 kid seats and a medium kennel. The current Forester really isn't much bigger than yours (check the specs, you'll be surprised) so there's no room for cargo once with those items in there. Plus it can't tow (as you mentioned). Plus, there's no way you're fitting 8' boards inside.

I know, we have a '15 Forester. It replaced a 2012 GMC Acadia. Now, the Acadia is a vehicle that can easily handle everything the OP wants; tow 5000 lbs, room for kids/dog/cargo, 4x8 plywood lays flat inside (not sure if that's still true for 2013+ as there is a design refresh), etc. The only place it suffers is desired MPG. The AWD model is rated 21 or 22 hwy. FWD is slightly better but OP wants AWD. It's also massive but you can't have your cake and eat it too!

 

[BurnItDwn]

Read his requirements. 2 kid seats and a medium kennel. The current Forester really isn't much bigger than yours (check the specs, you'll be surprised) so there's no room for cargo once with those items in there. Plus it can't tow (as you mentioned). Plus, there's no way you're fitting 8' boards inside.

I know, we have a '15 Forester. It replaced a 2012 GMC Acadia. Now, the Acadia is a vehicle that can easily handle everything the OP wants; tow 5000 lbs, room for kids/dog/cargo, 4x8 plywood lays flat inside (not sure if that's still true for 2013+ as there is a design refresh), etc. The only place it suffers is desired MPG. The AWD model is rated 21 or 22 hwy. FWD is slightly better but OP wants AWD. It's also massive but you can't have your cake and eat it too!

Yea, I dont think Forester is ideal, Outback is a bit bigger, but they are $$$$$ these days...

I do think he should consider Ford though.

35K gives lots of Options....

Escape may be too small, but if it works in terms of size, OP is golden.
Otherwise, Flex and Explorer are in the budget.

Flex is a bit more vanlike, but has tons of space, can tow well, and is advertised with 25mpg highway.

I dont think the Explorer is worth getting since the Flex looks like a better option to me, but, worth taking a peak.

GMC makes some very solid vehicles, but the Acadia had some issues early on, cant speak for newer years though, I would expect them to be better once the growing pains wore off.

Interesting site, might be useful, might not be, don't put TOO much faith into it though ....
http://tradeinqualityindex.com/


As far as 2015 forester vs 2008, the 2015 has around 10-15% more space... It may not be that much, but, the seats are a lot better in the new models, so there is better leg room and the car is a bit wider. Yes, the wider pillars due to more rigorous safety standards to reduce the gains to interior space ... but it it a little bit bigger.

Happy hunting

 

[MegaFlop]

I will just put a plug in for Hyundai Santa Fe since we have one..
2013+ is when the redesign happened.

The third row is pretty tight. The second row captains chairs are great and so is the panoramic sunroof. We are getting around 24mpg highway with it. The tow rating is 5000lbs and the AWD works great even in deep snow.

10year / 100k mile power train warranty when purchased new.