Need to rent a car tomorrow, icy roads - AWD, or FWD?

[CurseTheSky]

Typically (in my experience) shifting into '2' in an auto will start in 2nd gear instead of first.

I can't speak for all of them, but on the two auto's I've had with multiple gears on the selector (not just 1 or L), both would start in first, shift into second as usual, and then not go any higher.

The 2003 Malibu I drove had 1, 2, 3, and D on the selector (4 speed auto). Shifting it into anything other than D would just specific the maximum gear it could be in, but it would still shift up or down up to that limit. It was completely useless for starting out on a slippery surface, but absolutely awesome if you needed to down shift, such as if you lost your brakes. My current Fusion (6AT) just has a selection for first gear, which sucks. I'm curious to see what it would do if I "shifted down into first" at > 40 MPH, but I'm scared that it actually will try to, and either brake the transmission or over-rev the engine.

 

[silverpig]

We've got a VW Rabbit with the DSG transmission. Best of both worlds

 

[jlee]

I can't speak for all of them, but on the two auto's I've had with multiple gears on the selector (not just 1 or L), both would start in first, shift into second as usual, and then not go any higher.

The 2003 Malibu I drove had 1, 2, 3, and D on the selector (4 speed auto). Shifting it into anything other than D would just specific the maximum gear it could be in, but it would still shift up or down up to that limit. It was completely useless for starting out on a slippery surface, but absolutely awesome if you needed to down shift, such as if you lost your brakes. My current Fusion (6AT) just has a selection for first gear, which sucks. I'm curious to see what it would do if I "shifted down into first" at > 40 MPH, but I'm scared that it actually will try to, and either brake the transmission or over-rev the engine.

Maybe it's a Crown Vic thing, then..didn't play with my Tundra much, and everything else I have is manual.

 

[Number1]

AWD with traction and stability control with winter tires would be your best possible option. Automatic or standard is really a question of personal preference.

 

[CurseTheSky]

Maybe it's a Crown Vic thing, then..didn't play with my Tundra much, and everything else I have is manual.

It should be on all automatics, IMO. Hopefully with more and more going to selective-shift, or whatever they want to call it, it'll be on nearly all vehicles within the next 5 years or so.

I would still take a manual any day for bad conditions, though.

 

[Nintendesert]

I'm telling you, get this:

http://www.mattracks.com/

And you'll have no problems, ever! In anything!

 

[PingSpike]

LOL at 2WD heavy ford explorer as the suggestion for a good ice driving vehicle. Yep, a RWD heavy truck is an awesome ice rig and will run circles around those crazy AWD subbies!

I want the mattracks though, then I could stop plowing my driveway. Not sure how I'd get heating oil delivered then though.

 

[ShawnD1]

AWD with traction and stability control with winter tires would be your best possible option. Automatic or standard is really a question of personal preference.

I've heard people say manual was better because you can use the clutch to disengage any engine-brake or engine-drive related skid problems. Well uh... ya could always pop it from drive to neutral in any automatic and get the same result

 

[zerocool84]

LOL at 2WD heavy ford explorer as the suggestion for a good ice driving vehicle. Yep, a RWD heavy truck is an awesome ice rig and will run circles around those crazy AWD subbies!

I want the mattracks though, then I could stop plowing my driveway. Not sure how I'd get heating oil delivered then though.

Yet those AWD Subies are usually the ones that are on the side of the roads first. People think AWD magically makes you be able to take on any roads.

 

[RGUN]

He's full of shit and has no idea WTF he is talking about, thats the explanation.

Manual > auto in low slip conditions as you can start in a higher gear

The amount of misinformation in this thread is hilarious.

Of course it has nothing to do with the fact that the torque converter is significantly smoother and will allow for a much much slower and smoother transition to power. Or allow for a much slower rotation of the wheels. Combined with much less jerkiness of shifting (remember, we were talking on ice here, so silky smooth is the winner). Again we are talking ice, so we want to minimize engine braking as much as possible (+ to auto).

If your only defense of manual being superior is starting in a higher gear, then please explain the advantage, as all the autos I have driven you could start in 1st or 2nd. For the record I drive an STI year round in Canada, so I am familiar with all available options.

 

[RGUN]

Yet those AWD Subies are usually the ones that are on the side of the roads first. People think AWD magically makes you be able to take on any roads.

Good tires + good drivetrain. I've never been stopped by the conditions in my Subaru. Typically the people that I see on the side of the road first are those that think All season tires are fine and go out in their FWD/RWD vehicles and make it until the first stop sign - then cause chaos for everyone that now has to try to drive out of the groove to go around them.

 

[ShawnD1]

Again we are talking ice, so we want to minimize engine braking as much as possible (+ to auto).

In straight technical terms, both are equal because the manual has a clutch and the automatic can be put in neutral. In more practical terms, pushing in the clutch when driving a standard is a lot more common than putting an automatic in neutral. You can put it in neutral to stop all engine braking or transmission creeping, but most people don't.

Typically the people that I see on the side of the road first are those that think All season tires are fine and go out in their FWD/RWD vehicles and make it until the first stop sign - then cause chaos for everyone that now has to try to drive out of the groove to go around them

I also pin blame on people who don't seem to understand which tires do what.
Suppose you are driving in a straight line and you want to stop. Which tires are stopping the car? Well obviously all 4 tires are stopping; you have the traction of all 4 tires.
Now suppose you are trying to turn. Which tires are turning the car? Only the front 2 tires.
So which condition is more likely to lose control: stopping in a straight line or doing anything while turning? Obviously turning is more likely to lose control, which usually means understeering across lanes (you turn the wheel and the car keeps going straight-ish).

If people understood this, they would slow waaaay down when making a turn. Unfortunately they don't, so they understeer across lanes or understeer into a ditch or understeer into a curb or understeer into a snow bank.

 

[Vic Vega]

Rear Wheel Drive.

 

[alfa147x]

Corvette

 

[RGUN]

Besides, when we get down to -20 or 30 out here that first shift into first on my manual trans often sounds like I'm trying to pull start a cat.

 

[The-Noid]

My winter car is an Audi with a V10, AWD, traction control and snows. Love running circles around the SUV and trucks that never want to go to 4-wheel drive to save money on gas. Driving in MN you realize how brutally stupid most people are at driving and when bigger rims became better, it is amazing how most don't realize that a bigger and wider wheel although looking cool, provide much worse traction in snow and ice. We had 5" on Monday and I passed a Hummer H2 on 22's that had NO traction whatsoever, probably summer tires as well.

I digress, AWD in a car from my experience (I have had a g35x, m35x, subaru wrx, audi a6, audi s6 with AWD) have all driven better in the snow than any SUV, unless there are feet of snow but that is another issue.

 

[The-Noid]

I vote half-track as well.

 

[MotF Bane]

Get the heaviest car with the highest clearance regardless of drive. If picking between two large SUV's, then AWD is preferred. But a 2WD Explorer >> 4WD WRX.

As previously mentioned, AWD won't help you stop faster or prevent you from losing control on ice. It will only help if you get stuck in snow.

Hahahahahaha!

 

[QuantumPion]

My winter car is an Audi with a V10, AWD, traction control and snows. Love running circles around the SUV and trucks that never want to go to 4-wheel drive to save money on gas. Driving in MN you realize how brutally stupid most people are at driving and when bigger rims became better, it is amazing how most don't realize that a bigger and wider wheel although looking cool, provide much worse traction in snow and ice. We had 5" on Monday and I passed a Hummer H2 on 22's that had NO traction whatsoever, probably summer tires as well.

I digress, AWD in a car from my experience (I have had a g35x, m35x, subaru wrx, audi a6, audi s6 with AWD) have all driven better in the snow than any SUV, unless there are feet of snow but that is another issue.

Wider tires would be definitely worse on ice, but depending on conditions they may actually be better on snow.

Hahahahahaha!

Physics sure is useful and fun! I recommend not dropping out of high school. Or if you already have, you should probably start working on your GED.

 

[alfa147x]

Wider tires would be definitely worse on ice, but depending on conditions they may actually be better on snow.




Physics sure is useful and fun! I recommend not dropping out of high school. Or if you already have, you should probably start working on your GED.

Give up while you're still stupid.

 

[QuantumPion]

LOL at 2WD heavy ford explorer as the suggestion for a good ice driving vehicle. Yep, a RWD heavy truck is an awesome ice rig and will run circles around those crazy AWD subbies!

I want the mattracks though, then I could stop plowing my driveway. Not sure how I'd get heating oil delivered then though.

Oh I didn't realize the 2WD explorer was RWD. But otherwise I'm still correct - a heavy FWD SUV will be better than a AWD sedan/coupe for most winter conditions.

 

[mb]

Wider tires would be definitely worse on ice, but depending on conditions they may actually be better on snow.




Physics sure is useful and fun! I recommend not dropping out of high school. Or if you already have, you should probably start working on your GED.

No, no... wider tires are worse on snow and ice.

I found that one out after I got 19x10 wheels once.

 

[The-Noid]

Oh I didn't realize the 2WD explorer was RWD. But otherwise I'm still correct - a heavy FWD SUV will be better than a AWD sedan/coupe for most winter conditions.

Wow you really know nothing about snow.

AWD in a car is better than your hypothetical SUV. A big heavy SUV with 4WD may be better but that is still a stretch. My wife had a Lexus LX with traction control and 4WD that wasw good but imo the car was still better.

Myth: Wide tires provide better traction under all weather conditions. In fact, putting oversize snow tires on a car delivers better snow traction.
Fact: The opposite is actually true. Wide tires tend to "float" on deep snow, and the tread lugs never have a chance to "dig" through to the road surface to gain traction. Narrow tires are a better option in deep snow. The tire acts similarly to a knife cutting through butter; the blade works best when using the narrow edge to push through the butter rather than the wide flat side of the blade.

 

[QuantumPion]

Wow you really know nothing about snow.

AWD in a car is better than your hypothetical SUV. A big heavy SUV with 4WD may be better but that is still a stretch. My wife had a Lexus LX with traction control and 4WD that wasw good but imo the car was still better.

Myth: Wide tires provide better traction under all weather conditions. In fact, putting oversize snow tires on a car delivers better snow traction.
Fact: The opposite is actually true. Wide tires tend to "float" on deep snow, and the tread lugs never have a chance to "dig" through to the road surface to gain traction. Narrow tires are a better option in deep snow. The tire acts similarly to a knife cutting through butter; the blade works best when using the narrow edge to push through the butter rather than the wide flat side of the blade.

I thought we were talking about icy roads here, not driving on snow-covered roads. In the latter case AWD would probably be more beneficial than increased vehicle weight.

Your Myth/fact quote is correct - the conditions where wide tires have better traction is limited to specific type and amount of snow and the type of road. Generally, the conditions where AWD would be advantageous are also where wider tires would help - loose dry snow on untreated/unplowed roads.

 

[The-Noid]

I thought we were talking about icy roads here, not driving on snow-covered roads. In the latter case AWD would probably be more beneficial than increased vehicle weight.

Your Myth/fact quote is correct - the conditions where wide tires have better traction is limited to specific type and amount of snow and the type of road. Generally, the conditions where AWD would be advantageous are also where wider tires would help - loose dry snow on untreated/unplowed roads.

I think what you are talking about is thin tires that are underinflated.

Thick tires that are underinflated still underperform a thinner tire that is underinflated.

Unless you are one of those people that just can't admit when they are wrong and is talking about that "specific type" that can't be proven. There once was this snow in Vermont and it was different than the snow in Michigan which is different than the snow in Colorado, you definitely needed wide tires for that.