Netflix - Making a Murderer

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krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,595
136
I just watched the 30 minute interview with Avery's ex-gf. I would say this interview is possible the most damning evidence against him compared to anything Kratz said.

However, there are things about it that make you wonder if she isn't getting paid to say it after all this time. She could have come forward when he was in jail. No one would care if she just said "I think he's innocent". This has much more impact and attention....but...I will say her interview seems sincere...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTz673OMTF0


And yea... I honestly can't say if he is guilty or not, and my thoughts on Steven and Brenden differ between the two. What I do think is that nearly everything about that community is horrible.
There is no evidence. Just her feelings.
From 8 years back when she was drunk.
But i find it sad we didnt get a more fair description of SA instead of that onesided picture. Wasnt really nessesary imo. The documentary have plenty solid points wether he is guilty or not.
What i also miss was a better analysis of the case from experts. A kind of follow up discussion perhaps not directly tied to the series.
Still Watching the Jinx now and its nowhere as good TV. Nothing like it. Still a 10 for me.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,740
452
126
Just finished it today... crazy

What they did to Brandon still boggles my mind. How the investigator could tell him exactly what he wanted to see written and drawn and seem to be okay with it (he was filming it all) is awful.
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,595
136
Just finished it today... crazy

What they did to Brandon still boggles my mind. How the investigator could tell him exactly what he wanted to see written and drawn and seem to be okay with it (he was filming it all) is awful.
Its not different from what eg the woman doing the dna testing did. Or the rest of the people involved.

All did what they thought was right. They did their utmost.

What i see now is, that there was a lot of communication between all involved. Eg the detective explaing the dna woman what results to get. Brendan layer telling the investigator what to get.

The point is. When people expect something should happen because that makes best sense they also have to communicate a lot about it because it doesnt come through without that communication.

In that light the DA pretrial statesments not only poluted the jury pool it also set a direction for all working the case.

We eg. See the result of that as the inability to examine other potential suspects. Tunnel vision for the entire system. It like the system was prisoner of its own communication and preunderstanding.
 
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SolMiester

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2004
5,331
17
76
I just watched the whole series in one day, OMFG, I have seen some serious dodgey stuff reported of US cops before, however this takes the cake.
Len K and his investigator..The stuff they say about the Averys, he dont even know them. (Evil people inbreeding?)The Judge on Stevens case when sentencing goes on about his history?..what history, that he was wrongly convicted and put away for 18 yrs, or did he just ignore that when he was stating that his crimes were giving worse?.
The poor boy Brendan railroaded and the DA stated 2 different things in each case, one that Steven did, 2nd case that Brendan was involved!.

Im with Impule regarding some of the evidance too!.

Thing is...garage wasn't clean, neither was the house. Look at the photos. Things there hadn't been touched in ages. What was the bullet doing in there with no blood anywhere?

Also:

No DNA of Theresa anywhere in the home or the garage (EXCEPT for the bullet in the garage, that mysteriously had DNA, but not blood DNA)

No DNA of Brenden in the house or garage.

No fingerprints from Avery or Dassey on/in the vehicle but there was blood drops and some sort of (sweat?) DNA of Avery's under the hood.

No DNA from Theresa on her own key, but Avery's was on it. (TH Spare key?)

Bones found in 3 locations (1 of which was off the property) (The heat to incinerate the bone would of taken 12+ hours and the smell of burning flesh wasnt smelt by anyone?)

No evidence of bleach used to clean up said blood

No evidence of bed sheets/blankets/etc in burn piles


Now, let's say he did clean the garage meticulously, or even the house. Then, he would have had to burn the body and her possessions.

One could say he stashed the car quickly meaning to come back for it, and not thinking anyone would actually find it in that lot. (The mindset being he had time because no one knew to look there).

But...

I will play both sides by saying. All the so called evidence in the old case said he was guilty too. So...makes you wonder how concrete some of the existing evidence is considering all the motive to make him disappear and the story related to how he was convicted before (as in...basically all evidence was made to look like it was him). Like the sheriff said, would have been easier to just kill him, because that wouldn't have looked suspicious or anything with a 35million dollar lawsuit or anything. (ie: that would have definitely pointed to them as motive).

Why was TH blood in the car boot area?, was it used to transport the body and why, and seriously who would be dumb enough to burn a body out in the open right by your bedroom windows FFS!

I dont know if Steven did it, but dont understand why he would anyway, he was going for 36m against the county sheriff dept and it was looking good for him. He was in a relationship!

Lastly, WTF is the point of the appeal court if they cant even see how badly the trials were conducted.

Edit - Having thought about it, I would have to say that I think SA & BD are innocent, the reason being that the evidence they do have with the burned bones, car on peoperty and the blood in it are too obvious. Where is the difficult evidence, the blood splatter etc, who smelt the burning body? after all, BD was convicted of cutting up the body, no weapons found, no other DNA anywhere.

To me, car keys, car on the property with his blood is just too pat!
 
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z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
Didn't read rest of thread but just wanted to make a comment for what it's worth.

On episode 6 as of last night, probably going to finish rest of show this week. I must say, this show is very addicting, and not having remembered/heard of this back in 2006, I am on the edge of my seat.

My personal opinion is that Avery did not do the crime. The physical evidence, other than the body, does not make sense with his nephew's account of the story. Which by the way, was altered to one of innocence when the police weren't around. They knew they were taking full advantage of a not-so-bright kid so they could get a better case on Avery.

As far as planting evidence, that one is a bit more tricky. It did strike me very odd that the key had no DNA at all other than Avery's. If the girl had just used the early, her DNA should surely be on it. Same for the car having NO prints at all (based on what the defense lawyers said in ep 5) and only evidence was a few random blood drops that matched Avery. With the apparent tampering of his old case's evidence, it's at least questionable if that blood was planted, too. I'd wager the FBI will conclude the blood in the car does not match the vial... This case seems to be riddled with corruption (just like his last), and at the very least unethical practices by police.

The fact the one officer called in to verify the missing girl's license plate is very sketch. He seems very nervous on the stand. I'm guessing he's somehow involved due to how he handled the previous case in '95.
 

mrrman

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2004
8,498
3
0
It seems like the cops covered her murder up and pinned it on Avery. They had it for him after his 1st conviction release.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,740
452
126
two days before it was found, I believe. After she was missing since the operator stated it was linked to a missing person

Yup

That was some sketchy shit, when that cop was on the stand and they played that call. I'm surprised nothing really came of it... I was hoping that was going to uncover some more stuff about that specific officer at least.

I'm staying the hell out of Wisconsin though, that's for damn sure.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Why is Nancy Grace allowed air time? OMG. I want him to be freed just on the hopes he tracks her down.
 

bradly1101

Diamond Member
May 5, 2013
4,689
294
126
www.bradlygsmith.org
After watching it I think she was killed by her unstable ex who had been harassing her in phone calls. I think those are the phone mail messages that the brother deleted (at the direction of the D.A.) so as not to point to the boyfriend.

And where did the blood go from the throat slitting?
 

ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
I'm not sure who killed her but I am amazed the jury, especially in the Avery case, found enough to be beyond a reasonable doubt.

The other case (can't remember the name of the younger guy that got sent away) was a little tougher since they had a confession from him. Even if the confession was suspect I imagine that is a hard thing for a jury to simply overlook.

I felt a little sick after watching this whole thing. I realize it was skewed towards making Avery look innocent, but it sure seems like the cops/prosecuters were pretty shady all around.
 

FDF12389

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2005
5,234
7
76
After watching it I think she was killed by her unstable ex who had been harassing her in phone calls. I think those are the phone mail messages that the brother deleted (at the direction of the D.A.) so as not to point to the boyfriend.

And where did the blood go from the throat slitting?

That was found to be Avery, not her ex...
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,234
136
I felt a little sick after watching this whole thing. I realize it was skewed towards making Avery look innocent, but it sure seems like the cops/prosecuters were pretty shady all around.

I feel the same way. At the very least, he deserves a new trial With a different judge.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
What is she saying about this?

She thinks he's guilty..which I don't have a problem with, but she is not objective about it at all. She's only regurgitating what Kratz said and not adding anything to it, but for some reason she is all over the place now spewing her rhetoric. She's all sensationalism and no substance.

I don't recall them making that link in the documentary. Is there another source that would claim this?

They didn't. Kratz came out and said this. Apparently it was in the trial, but had been shown that *67 was normal for him or the judge threw it out or something. It isn't quite clear, but apparently yes he did.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
I'm watching this series and I'm up to episode 6 and I still think he at least had something to do with her disappearance if not murder.
 

BeeBoop

Golden Member
Feb 5, 2013
1,677
0
0
I'm watching this series and I'm up to episode 6 and I still think he at least had something to do with her disappearance if not murder.

He just looks guilty to me. Brandon however, seems like an innocent victim that got caught in the crossfire.
 
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